Need Advice re Leaf Springs

[a12houk]

I have a Tacoma with an OME 2” lift on the (Dakar I assume) springs.

When empty, it’s a great off roader and drives nicely as my daily. When I add my RTT and camping gear I am bottoming out. Frequently enough that I want to fix it.

My instinct is to add a leaf. I have the OEM packs I pulled out that could be used to supply.

Would I be better off adding another overload spring?

Sumo spring?

Starting over with a whole new leaf pack?

Or would I be better served getting those fancy shocks with the extra reservoir?

 

[eriefisher]

Shocks do nothing to help with load. Adding a leaf or a heavier pack will effect the daily ride greatly. One option is to install a helper spring that doesn't engage until there is enough weight. They're normally free floating unloaded.

 

[a12houk]

Shocks do nothing to help with load. Adding a leaf or a heavier pack will effect the daily ride greatly. One option is to install a helper spring that doesn't engage until there is enough weight. They're normally free floating unloaded.

Ok, thanks.
I think Hellwig makes one of those.
I thought the overloads did that too, the ones on the bottom that curve down instead of up…

 

[danwyandt]

Shocks do nothing to help with load. Adding a leaf or a heavier pack will effect the daily ride greatly. One option is to install a helper spring that doesn't engage until there is enough weight. They're normally free floating unloaded.

Ok, thanks.
I think Hellwig makes one of those.
I thought the overloads did that too, the ones on the bottom that curve down instead of up…

The overloads are there to keep the spring pack from going the other way and pulling apart.
If the locating pin and ubolts are lo g enough I would add 1 leaf In and run that for a bit.
You can add the coilover shocks, but that really is just to help against fast compression of the shock.

 

[a12houk]

Shocks do nothing to help with load. Adding a leaf or a heavier pack will effect the daily ride greatly. One option is to install a helper spring that doesn't engage until there is enough weight. They're normally free floating unloaded.

Ok, thanks.
I think Hellwig makes one of those.
I thought the overloads did that too, the ones on the bottom that curve down instead of up…

The overloads are there to keep the spring pack from going the other way and pulling apart.
If the locating pin and ubolts are lo g enough I would add 1 leaf In and run that for a bit.
You can add the coilover shocks, but that really is just to help against fast compression of the shock.

I don’t think I understand what you mean by go the other way and pull apart.
If I’m bottoming out, doesn’t that mean the spring is flexing too far?

 

[danwyandt]

The overloads try to keep the springs from curving beyond "flat".
If you're bottoming out, the springs are not stout enough.

Remember, springs hold the body up, shocks hold it down.

 

[MMc]

Want you want is a progressive spring pack. You replace the 3 to 5 springs you have now with 9 to 12 springs that collectively carry the same or more weight without bottoming out. Most the leaf spring companies have them. I would contact one close to you for what you are looking for. I have Deaver's on mine and love it.

 

[Viking1204]

On my F-150 I just added a leaf and it made all the difference. Raised the backend up about 2" and now it doesn't sag at all when loaded up.

 

[Shakes355]

Doing a quick search, it looks like the OME kits came with Dakar packs rated for either 150-200# or 300+# over stock weight. If you're completely bottoming out, my guess is you either have the mid range set or you're running much heavier than implied (more common than not). In either case, yes, the packs would be best served with an add-a-leaf and your old packs will work just fine as donors.

I might also suggest adding an additional support in the form of a load leveler. Helper springs are one option, as stated, and work well at a reasonable price. I personally recommend Sumosprings from Super springs international. Timbren is another option.

I installed the Sumos on my pickup along with a spring pack upgrade. They replace the bump stop. Under normal to light loads, they do not touch often the way I have them spaced. Under a healthy load or with a trailer, they are firm but comfortable.

An advantage to the bump stop replacement options is that, depending on suspension geometry, they can also help your flex by way of leverage. That's a little harder to quantify though and should not be a primary consideration.

Good luck

 

[a12houk]

Doing a quick search, it looks like the OME kits came with Dakar packs rated for either 150-200# or 300+# over stock weight. If you're completely bottoming out, my guess is you either have the mid range set or you're running much heavier than implied (more common than not). In either case, yes, the packs would be best served with an add-a-leaf and your old packs will work just fine as donors.

I might also suggest adding an additional support in the form of a load leveler. Helper springs are one option, as stated, and work well at a reasonable price. I personally recommend Sumosprings from Super springs international. Timbren is another option.

I installed the Sumos on my pickup along with a spring pack upgrade. They replace the bump stop. Under normal to light loads, they do not touch often the way I have them spaced. Under a healthy load or with a trailer, they are firm but comfortable.

An advantage to the bump stop replacement options is that, depending on suspension geometry, they can also help your flex by way of leverage. That's a little harder to quantify though and should not be a primary consideration.

Good luck

Thanks!
I really appreciate that feedback. It’s where I was leaning after some research last night, but to have someone vouch for the sumo’s helps a lot.
Will definitely add a leaf as well.

I feel a September project coming on ;)

 

[OTH Overland]

Consideration should be made to how the vehicle will be used, are you setting it up as a full time overlander, where it is loaded about the same allways, or are you daily driving it empty and only piling on the goodness for trips? What type of off road use are you going to do (rock crawling and long distance travel on pot holed or washboard roads benifit from different suspension systems. My suggestion before spending any $$ is to take it to a scale and weigh all four conrers individually, and if you have two different configuarations weigh each condition. Now you will have real world numbers that you can talk to spring manufacutres with. This along with your types of useage should help them select the proper product for your case. My JK is loaded heavy all the time, so it was easy to select the proper primary springs, my Ram get used fully loaded and empty and I have gone with air bags on the rear so I can dial in just what I need.

 

[Dilldog]

My recommendation would be to look at air bags. When I put them on my old pickup it was a HUGE game changer. It improved ride quality and off-road ability (I was able to remove leaves from the packs making the springs softer) and increased load carrying ability.

When empty you can run the air bags at low pressure and maintain ride quality, then when loaded you can add air so you don't bottom out. Then when you add more gear or maybe pull a trailer you can change air pressure to suit the load. Basically with air bags you can have your cake and eat it too, good ride and load carrying. If you try to do everything with springs it will be a give and take.

Now for cost, a basic air bag system (no compressor, just bags tubing and schrader valves) will set you back maybe as much as new springs on a Taco (about $500), an add a leaf would be cheaper but it will stiffen the ride when empty. If you got for the full meal on board air set up (I would go with PacBrake, ARB is over priced and underperforms compared to the PacBrake stuff) you would be in the neighborhood of $1500. But then you have the ability to adjust air bag pressure on the fly from the cab (even side to side to ballance the load, or help with articulation by dropping air pressure on the "up hill side" and potentially planting a tire that is in a rut with less tranction) and will have the ability to run air tools and naturally airing back up will be a snap.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I would try the Sumo bump stops first, if you don't like them then a leaf set rated for the weight you carry. I had a AAL and while it did the job it was very stiff with a full load.

 

[TexasLandman]

Have you thought about having spring made for your rig? I an experience with wrapping several springs on several trips (XJ springs with add a leaf. I contacted Alcan Spring out of CO. Never had an issue again and the overall ride was actually nicer.
They will require all kinds of information like weight, expected loaded weight ( I went to some truck scales).
They can taylor the leaf packs/spring rates to particular needs. Mine was more crawling but I have no doubt they also cover overlanding as well. It was a few years back but I think I paid $200/side.

 

[a12houk]

Have you thought about having spring made for your rig? I an experience with wrapping several springs on several trips (XJ springs with add a leaf. I contacted Alcan Spring out of CO. Never had an issue again and the overall ride was actually nicer.
They will require all kinds of information like weight, expected loaded weight ( I went to some truck scales).
They can taylor the leaf packs/spring rates to particular needs. Mine was more crawling but I have no doubt they also cover overlanding as well. It was a few years back but I think I paid $200/side.

It’s perfect when unloaded as my daily driver and weekend wheeling.
It’s only when fully loaded with roof top tent, camping gear, and all the extras that I bottom out.

Sumo springs look like the way to go.

 

[a12houk]

My recommendation would be to look at air bags. When I put them on my old pickup it was a HUGE game changer. It improved ride quality and off-road ability (I was able to remove leaves from the packs making the springs softer) and increased load carrying ability.

When empty you can run the air bags at low pressure and maintain ride quality, then when loaded you can add air so you don't bottom out. Then when you add more gear or maybe pull a trailer you can change air pressure to suit the load. Basically with air bags you can have your cake and eat it too, good ride and load carrying. If you try to do everything with springs it will be a give and take.

Now for cost, a basic air bag system (no compressor, just bags tubing and schrader valves) will set you back maybe as much as new springs on a Taco (about $500), an add a leaf would be cheaper but it will stiffen the ride when empty. If you got for the full meal on board air set up (I would go with PacBrake, ARB is over priced and underperforms compared to the PacBrake stuff) you would be in the neighborhood of $1500. But then you have the ability to adjust air bag pressure on the fly from the cab (even side to side to ballance the load, or help with articulation by dropping air pressure on the "up hill side" and potentially planting a tire that is in a rut with less tranction) and will have the ability to run air tools and naturally airing back up will be a snap.

I have air bags on my F-150 and am definitely not a fan. Maybe I’ll like them better if I can ever find the leak and fix it.

 

[Dilldog]

I have air bags on my F-150 and am definitely not a fan. Maybe I’ll like them better if I can ever find the leak and fix it.

I hear ya, leaks can really be a pain in the butt. I will admit that having been a HD on highway truck mechanic for 10 years, air leaks are a fact of life and you do get really good at finding them. Definitely one of those experience things...
To that end, a spray bottle with soapy water in it is your friend. Spray down every fitting and joint, anyplace the lines run close to or touch anything and the bottom of the air bags. When you see bubbles, theres your leak. If the bottom of bag is leaking you will need to replace it, if a fitting is leaking you can try cleaning the parts and taking sand paper to the line to try to establish a better seal but you are typically time and money ahead just replacing the fitting. If it is a run of line that has a leak, cut the line in half, remove the damaged segment and install a union.

 

[smritte]

My recommendation would be to look at air bags.

I'll second on air bags.

I have run them on my pickups for decades, camper on, camper off. My cruiser has had them for seven years of brutal off road. Both of my off road trailers have them.
None of them have ever leaked. Dry rot on bags and lines chaffed on things are normally the issue. Inspecting your suspension is something you should be doing anyways. As @Dilldog said, spray soapy water.
An "Air Bag" is correctly called an air spring. The purpose of a spring is to support weight. When setting them up, you need to make sure the physical sizing is correct. You need to make sure if your suspension bottoms out, the bag won't bottom out. This can happen when its deflated for unloaded position. Proper spaced bump stops are what you do here. You also never tie them together, keep the lines separate. Tied together, body roll will cause one to push up while the other collapses.
The nice thing about using bags as a supplemental spring is, if you measure your vehicle height unloaded, add weight, inflate to same spot, you have exactly the correct amount of spring tension. The only thing this will effect is your shock. If the movement isn't to your liking, an adjustable shock is the fix. I notice the difference but it's not enough of a concern to me.

Most failed air suspension systems were not set up correctly.

 

[eriefisher]

I have seen poorly installed air bags twist frames.

 

[a12houk]

Sumo Springs installed.

Going to wait on messing with the leaf pack until I’m ready for more lift and new shocks. Definitely want to replace the squeaky Dakars with something else, Deavers perhaps.

Just wanted to thank everybody that chimed in here with advice. Much appreciated.