Mid size section

[Boostpowered]

You've catered to the big rigs, 2wd and small vehicle overlanding in forums how about a midsized section. By not having one like all the other similar overlanding forums I feel you are loosing alot of toyota tacomas, Ford rangers, chevy colorados, anyone who will buy the Nissan frontier, and basically all non crossover suv like 4runners, pathfinder exterras, every jeep made etc.

It doesn't feel too midsize friendly around here, it feels more orientated towards the overlanders that hardly ever see dirt under their tires as of late and that's being celebrated.

It's just super weird that you'd leave out a section for the midsized trail rigs that made overlanding what it is.

 

[Arailt]

I'm pretty sure every other rig on this site is a 4Runner.

The builds here are mostly mid-size. I think the small and large rigs feel the need to have their own threads because they're the outliers.

 

[Boostpowered]

I'm pretty sure every other rig on this site is a 4Runner.

The builds here are mostly mid-size. I think the small and large rigs feel the need to have their own threads because they're the outliers.

I think you mean rovers not 4 runners, both land and range. Last vehicle discussion I see is about a Subaru something or another and a old dually and a rover. The rovers are the only real rigs being discussed right now.

I can't pretend that 2wd or awd is even close to the same as 4wd. Nor can I pretend that cars, crossovers, suv and trucks are the same.
Would you enter a 90cc scooter in a 250cc dirt bike race? Would you compare a jon boat to a yacht? Yeah me neither.

Maybe the definition of overlanding should be changed to if Thule makes a roof rack for your vehicle your an overlander.

I know someone will say I'm gatekeeping and maybe I am, someone needs to but it's gotten embarrassing to say your an overlander. This utopia of all rigs welcome when really they aren't will come crashing down eventually and will likely taint overlanding for years to come.

We are paralleling the tuner scene of the late 90s where is was cool to have a supra, rx7, 300gt, 300zx etc then everyone with an Asian car started putting body kits, wings and stickers all over their fwd sedans and then started acting like they can beat any of the above mentioned super cars. We are about at that point where overlanding parts are being sold at auto zone on the cheap.

 

[MSD]

I'm pretty sure every other rig on this site is a 4Runner.

The builds here are mostly mid-size. I think the small and large rigs feel the need to have their own threads because they're the outliers.

I think you mean rovers not 4 runners, both land and range. Last vehicle discussion I see is about a Subaru something or another and a old dually and a rover. The rovers are the only real rigs being discussed right now.

I can't pretend that 2wd or awd is even close to the same as 4wd. Nor can I pretend that cars, crossovers, suv and trucks are the same.
Would you enter a 90cc scooter in a 250cc dirt bike race? Would you compare a jon boat to a yacht? Yeah me neither.

Maybe the definition of overlanding should be changed to if Thule makes a roof rack for your vehicle your an overlander.

I know someone will say I'm gatekeeping and maybe I am, someone needs to but it's gotten embarrassing to say your an overlander. This utopia of all rigs welcome when really they aren't will come crashing down eventually and will likely taint overlanding for years to come.

We are paralleling the tuner scene of the late 90s where is was cool to have a supra, rx7, 300gt, 300zx etc then everyone with an Asian car started putting body kits, wings and stickers all over their fwd sedans and then started acting like they can beat any of the above mentioned super cars. We are about at that point where overlanding parts are being sold at auto zone on the cheap.

I’m open to supporting a mid size section if they choose to add it and I hope they do…But honestly I don’t care what someone drives. Or if they call themselves an overlander or not… it’s about getting out & using your rig based on how it’s been built. People have done the Pan Am Hwy in a VW bug to LMTV so to each their own. I support whatever rig some chooses to build. Hoping that they add your mid size request.

 

[Boostpowered]

This all day, these guys are newbies themselves but atleast they are rigs capable vs well you'll see if you watch it

 

[Moebius01]

I think you mean rovers not 4 runners, both land and range. Last vehicle discussion I see is about a Subaru something or another and a old dually and a rover. The rovers are the only real rigs being discussed right now.

I can't pretend that 2wd or awd is even close to the same as 4wd. Nor can I pretend that cars, crossovers, suv and trucks are the same.
Would you enter a 90cc scooter in a 250cc dirt bike race? Would you compare a jon boat to a yacht? Yeah me neither.

Maybe the definition of overlanding should be changed to if Thule makes a roof rack for your vehicle your an overlander.

I know someone will say I'm gatekeeping and maybe I am, someone needs to but it's gotten embarrassing to say your an overlander. This utopia of all rigs welcome when really they aren't will come crashing down eventually and will likely taint overlanding for years to come.

We are paralleling the tuner scene of the late 90s where is was cool to have a supra, rx7, 300gt, 300zx etc then everyone with an Asian car started putting body kits, wings and stickers all over their fwd sedans and then started acting like they can beat any of the above mentioned super cars. We are about at that point where overlanding parts are being sold at auto zone on the cheap.

I get where you're coming from, but can't say I agree entirely. I think it's less about what the rig is and more about people understanding the limits of their given vehicle. I can't say there is a "universally accepted" definition of overlanding. To some, it's vehicle dependent off-road travel, and that's pretty much it. Like the old wagon train days when you were heading across the dusty trail and had to carry everything you needed to not die (unless you got dysentery...). To others, it's not overlanding unless you've got a heavily modified rig with a lift, oversize mud tires, and a winch. I fall into the former.

I decided to run with a WK2 for my rig, does that make me less of an overlander because I can't rock crawl like someone with a 3 1/2" lift running 40s? I can still go to places a majority of vehicles can't, and still go fully vehicle based for my camping needs. I know (or at least am in the process of learning) the capabilities of my vehicle so I don't put myself in a bad position.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a mid-size specific section, but it does risk becoming a bit of a slippery slope. Do we start breaking every class into a section? Crossovers? 4WD vs AWD vs 2WD specific rigs?

As to the video you just shared, nothing is going to change that. Too many people just will never understand the capability of their vehicle in given conditions. I grew up in the south, and can't even begin to tell you the number of people I encountered who assumed 4WD meant traction no matter what. So when we get the rare ice storm, I watched people hop in their lifted trucks and go barreling around thinking they were invincible, and inevitably rollover into a ditch or wrap their truck around a tree. Then I'd come piddling along behind in my little AWD SUV and smile at them as I drove wherever I was going. Simply because I had spent time living in the north and learned how to drive in those conditions.

I think Mike is right when he says it's not about what you drive. The part he leaves off (or at least doesn't say enough) is it's about knowing what you do drive can do.

 

[MOAK]

I agree with most of what you guys are saying. My vehicle, by American standards is mid size. A Subaru owner might disagree with that and think it to be full size. Mine is mildly modified with a bunch of junk bolted to it. It stays in the carriage house. Here in the east it has become an embarrassment to use as a daily driver. Not because I’m embarrassed by my really cool vehicle, but because of the associations that most people make when they encounter my vehicle. Sometimes I am obligated to correct people and give them my definition of overlanding. “NO, we don’t go 4 wheelin, we explore the back country of North America, camp & live outside, off grid, for weeks at a time and travel long distances to do so”. Even at that, people still associate what I drive with the weekend 4 wheelin warrior, out there ripping up the land and spewing rooster tails of mud. Maybe what needs to be delineated here on OB is the style of overlanding one partakes in, not the kind or size of vehicle one uses. Dragging a full sized camper behind a full size truck, packing up the Subaru for a leisurely camping trip to an organized campground or going up into the woods to go 4 wheelin for a day or two is overlanding by definition. They are not flying, they are driving over land. But that is all we have in common. That’s fine, to each their own, that’s what makes the world go round. Most of those style of overlanders would be very uncomfortable in the back country. So ya, I’m thinking that overlanding styles ought to have their own sub forums. Then again, it’s easier just to go on over to expedition portal where the lines are clearly drawn. Do I have anything in common with a world traveler? Ah, yea, my midsized vehicle. LOL but I do read what those world travelers have to say and apply their experiences and their advice to what we do here in the US. Do I seek experience or advise from someone in a full size, dragging a full size camper around? Ah, no. One thing for sure we can bank on, the “overlanding” craze will run its course. Most people simply do not have the time, energy, funding, or desire to invest in this hobby what one needs to invest in it for the long term sustainability of their involvement in the hobby. Right now I see a lot of people throwing a lot of money at it, not even considering it takes a lot more than just money. It takes dedication, time, energy & the ability to be open minded and know that there is something new to learn every day. Sorry to steer this thread off course a bit. In short, does OB need different sub forums for different sized vehicles? No. Different sub forums for different types of overlanding? Yes.

 

[Red_Leaf_Overland]

I agree with @MOAK and I see a lot of people steering others to believe that overlanding means you take your fully but 4x4 with all kinds of gear to a well established camp ground 2 towns over for the night. From what I see most won't take their vehicles offroad because they are worried about voiding their warranty, and the rest are scared to because they have no idea how their vehicle works and if something were to happen they would have no idea what to do.

I suppose I would be somewhere in the middle of groups because I work a lot and with a growing family tent to stay closer to the grid these days. But I have been "wheeling" for years and have found a lot of really cool spots to camp which eventually led me to the "overland" community. I spent years behind the wheel of all kinds of full size, mid size and compact 4x4s to get me through trails to camp, and have also spend a significant amount of time in FWD cars to get me to campgrounds. I still take my built LJ out and find new spots to camp off grid, but I also rely on a AWD compass to get me to campgrounds with the family. And hell we fly out to different countries and rent vehicles because we just don't have the time to drive there lol. I'm all over the map when It comes to fit in somewhere lol.

 

[Ursa Major]

Excellent idea to have sub forums for different sized rigs. I see this more as a way to see if every vehicle could fit on certain trails, or even for maintenance issues. I know in my neck of the woods if you are in anything other than a Jeep or Mid-sized truck, you will be too wide to fit down our narrow trails. This COULD be a quick way to find that information in the vast forum section if you are looking for something specific to your vehicle. Do I think it should "weed out" people, no, but it could be a helpful tool. I do agree with @MOAK that overlanding is about what vehicle you drive, but how you drive it.

 

[Countryboy20241]

I'm pretty sure every other rig on this site is a 4Runner.

The builds here are mostly mid-size. I think the small and large rigs feel the need to have their own threads because they're the outliers.

I can honestly say I am not a yota, lol.

 

[Countryboy20241]

I agree with most of what you guys are saying. My vehicle, by American standards is mid size. A Subaru owner might disagree with that and think it to be full size. Mine is mildly modified with a bunch of junk bolted to it. It stays in the carriage house. Here in the east it has become an embarrassment to use as a daily driver. Not because I’m embarrassed by my really cool vehicle, but because of the associations that most people make when they encounter my vehicle. Sometimes I am obligated to correct people and give them my definition of overlanding. “NO, we don’t go 4 wheelin, we explore the back country of North America, camp & live outside, off grid, for weeks at a time and travel long distances to do so”. Even at that, people still associate what I drive with the weekend 4 wheelin warrior, out there ripping up the land and spewing rooster tails of mud. Maybe what needs to be delineated here on OB is the style of overlanding one partakes in, not the kind or size of vehicle one uses. Dragging a full sized camper behind a full size truck, packing up the Subaru for a leisurely camping trip to an organized campground or going up into the woods to go 4 wheelin for a day or two is overlanding by definition. They are not flying, they are driving over land. But that is all we have in common. That’s fine, to each their own, that’s what makes the world go round. Most of those style of overlanders would be very uncomfortable in the back country. So ya, I’m thinking that overlanding styles ought to have their own sub forums. Then again, it’s easier just to go on over to expedition portal where the lines are clearly drawn. Do I have anything in common with a world traveler? Ah, yea, my midsized vehicle. LOL but I do read what those world travelers have to say and apply their experiences and their advice to what we do here in the US. Do I seek experience or advise from someone in a full size, dragging a full size camper around? Ah, no. One thing for sure we can bank on, the “overlanding” craze will run its course. Most people simply do not have the time, energy, funding, or desire to invest in this hobby what one needs to invest in it for the long term sustainability of their involvement in the hobby. Right now I see a lot of people throwing a lot of money at it, not even considering it takes a lot more than just money. It takes dedication, time, energy & the ability to be open minded and know that there is something new to learn every day. Sorry to steer this thread off course a bit. In short, does OB need different sub forums for different sized vehicles? No. Different sub forums for different types of overlanding? Yes.

I can honestly say I have never been approached with that, mostly people are curious about the things I have on my truck then what I do with it.

 

[Countryboy20241]

Excellent idea to have sub forums for different sized rigs. I see this more as a way to see if every vehicle could fit on certain trails, or even for maintenance issues. I know in my neck of the woods if you are in anything other than a Jeep or Mid-sized truck, you will be too wide to fit down our narrow trails. This COULD be a quick way to find that information in the vast forum section if you are looking for something specific to your vehicle. Do I think it should "weed out" people, no, but it could be a helpful tool. I do agree with @MOAK that overlanding is about what vehicle you drive, but how you drive it.

I agree with you entirely.

 

[MOAK]

I can honestly say I have never been approached with that, mostly people are curious about the things I have on my truck then what I do with it.

Aha! You live in Indiana, here on the eastern seaboard, I’ve often been accused of being a hypocrite. How can I possibly be for conservation of our earth, when I drive a vehicle that destroys what I profess to want to save? So ya, I get a lot more scornful looks than I do looks of curiosity. I really don’t care, I find narrow minded folks to be quite boorish, fortunately I see a great deal of humor in that.

 

[MidOH]

"Small rigs'' forum usually fits them perfectly. Because most have a low GVWR like a Tacoma or Wrangler. I guess the new Gladiator has a higher GVWR now, so maybe it's a midsize?

What the heck is a midsize anyways? New Jeep Wranglers are much larger than Jeep TJ's. Are they midsize now? If there isn't anything out there smaller than a midsize, isn't it just redundant? Just call them small.

Small-fits on a single lane jeep road.

Fullsize- fullsize trucks. And SUV's the same width as fullsize trucks.

Plus sized- LMTV's, Hummers, motorhomes, and the eurotrash equivalents.

 

[Moebius01]

What the heck is a midsize anyways? New Jeep Wranglers are much larger than Jeep TJ's. Are they midsize now? If there isn't anything out there smaller than a midsize, isn't it just redundant? Just call them small.

Small-fits on a single lane jeep road.

Fullsize- fullsize trucks. And SUV's the same width as fullsize trucks.

I was kind of wondering on this same topic. Does the WK2 fit into mid-size? Definitely not as wide as a full size truck, but wider than a JLU, and heavier.

 

[Arailt]

Aha! You live in Indiana, here on the eastern seaboard, I’ve often been accused of being a hypocrite. How can I possibly be for conservation of our earth, when I drive a vehicle that destroys what I profess to want to save? So ya, I get a lot more scornful looks than I do looks of curiosity. I really don’t care, I find narrow minded folks to be quite boorish, fortunately I see a great deal of humor in that.

In western PA, I've only had positive feedback and inquiries about my 4X4s over the years. I've driven several Jeeps and Toyotas in the past 20+ years. Everything from a 1980 CJ7 on through the years. By far, I've received the most attention in my current, very mildly built GX470. Duuude, you "lifted your Lexus!? That's so sweet" (it's not even lifted). My favorite is when my wife is with me and she's rolling her eyes while I'm grinning the whole way home.

 

[Moebius01]

I think the thing in that definition category is the difference between overlanding and mudding it the like. People intentionally treading lightly vs. the people seeing how big of a trench they can spin and throw mud 50 feet behind them.

 

[Countryboy20241]

I can honestly say I have never been approached with that, mostly people are curious about the things I have on my truck then what I do with it.

Aha! You live in Indiana, here on the eastern seaboard, I’ve often been accused of being a hypocrite. How can I possibly be for conservation of our earth, when I drive a vehicle that destroys what I profess to want to save? So ya, I get a lot more scornful looks than I do looks of curiosity. I really don’t care, I find narrow minded folks to be quite boorish, fortunately I see a great deal of humor in that.

I have a saying that I often repeat to myself, You can not have butterfly conversations with caterpillar people. That is how I deal with people lacking the understanding of why we do what we do.

 

[Countryboy20241]

Aha! You live in Indiana, here on the eastern seaboard, I’ve often been accused of being a hypocrite. How can I possibly be for conservation of our earth, when I drive a vehicle that destroys what I profess to want to save? So ya, I get a lot more scornful looks than I do looks of curiosity. I really don’t care, I find narrow minded folks to be quite boorish, fortunately I see a great deal of humor in that.

In western PA, I've only had positive feedback and inquiries about my 4X4s over the years. I've driven several Jeeps and Toyotas in the past 20+ years. Everything from a 1980 CJ7 on through the years. By far, I've received the most attention in my current, very mildly built GX470. Duuude, you "lifted your Lexus!? That's so sweet" (it's not even lifted). My favorite is when my wife is with me and she's rolling her eyes while I'm grinning the whole way home.

Does make it fun.

 

[Countryboy20241]

I agree with @MOAK and I see a lot of people steering others to believe that overlanding means you take your fully but 4x4 with all kinds of gear to a well established camp ground 2 towns over for the night. From what I see most won't take their vehicles offroad because they are worried about voiding their warranty, and the rest are scared to because they have no idea how their vehicle works and if something were to happen they would have no idea what to do.

I suppose I would be somewhere in the middle of groups because I work a lot and with a growing family tent to stay closer to the grid these days. But I have been "wheeling" for years and have found a lot of really cool spots to camp which eventually led me to the "overland" community. I spent years behind the wheel of all kinds of full size, mid size and compact 4x4s to get me through trails to camp, and have also spend a significant amount of time in FWD cars to get me to campgrounds. I still take my built LJ out and find new spots to camp off grid, but I also rely on a AWD compass to get me to campgrounds with the family. And hell we fly out to different countries and rent vehicles because we just don't have the time to drive there lol. I'm all over the map when It comes to fit in somewhere lol.

I drive a 2019 colorado diesel, highly modified, not afraid one bit to cross a mountain or Ford a stream. But you are right many are afraid. I try to be as far off grid as possible. My recent overland trip across the rockies by means of offroad was a good test of that.