Kiamichi Trail PSA

[MA_Trooper]

*Posting this as I know a few folks here run the K-Trail regularly or have plans to run it. Let's be sure we do it legally.*

A message was posted in my local overland Facebook group by a fella who had spoken to the game warden and another fella who confirmed with the local sheriff's office. Basically, a major section of the road/trail is 100% private. I know there have been a lot of folks running the trail, many of them finding nail holes in their tires after fording deep mud holes. My understanding, and I'll just quote the man's post, is that " From Clayton trail to K trail to all the way east past the Kiamichi fire tower till you get to USFS land is off-limits. The section of KTrail that is in the Quachita NF is still legal."

The main post in it's entirety is copied below. There is info in there for you to confirm the details yourself, in case you don't believe me.


"Just confirmed a suspicion that both my buddy Taylor over at Overland Textile Co and I had about KTrail and Clayton Trail in Clayton, OK. Both are off limits and this has been confirmed by Eric Dane the Oklahoma Game Warden in that county responsible for patrolling that area. This is quoted from Taylor from another FB Group....

'I talked with Pushmataha County game Warden, Dane Polk this morning. Had a long phone conversation with him. It's been a private road for years and years now. It's 100% private land on both sides of the road (as we knew), and IT'S A PRIVATE ROAD as well (no different than someone's driveway). Has been for a LONG time apparently. This isn't a recent deal. There is NO forestry land up there, and no ODWC land either. There USED to be but it has all been sold to private land owners, so everything on and along the trail is private from 9 Pine Road up till the Fire Tower. From the fire tower eastward is USFS land and legal to be on. I went by the 9 Pines entrance of Clayton Trail yesterday and there are no signs, no gates, nothing... so I asked Dane why there wasn't anything there to stop the traffic, and he said that they just get ripped down and it's a lost cause to try and stop them... he did say if you are caught on it, and the land owner wants to press charges, you will be fined a $500 trespassing ticket the first time, and the 2nd time you are caught it's $1500. Doesn't matter if there are signs or not, as you DO NOT need to post your land in Oklahoma to press trespassing charges, so signs or not, it's illegal to be up there. If you don't believe me, or have questions of your own, please contact Dane Polk, Pushmataha County Game Warden based in Clayton, OK (+1 580-271-0808). He will tell you everything I just did, as he has jurisdiction over that trail. Not USFS, not country Sherrif, not local PD... Dane is in charge of it.'

So guys, stay off KTrail in the section that is NOT USFS land. Let's not create a bad name for the overlanding or rockcrawling community by trespassing."

 

[gandrimp]

Thanks. Some in our group was just talking about this trail.

 

[UnderPressure]

Man, I just read this yesterday! Pretty bummed about it. I ran Clayton to the Indian hwy in November and had an enjoyable time. Wife and I where just talking about heading in from Indian hwy to 3 sticks next month.
Guess I'll need to find somewhere else to enjoy the lifestyle

Thanks for posting


OB 1864

 

[MA_Trooper]

Man, I just read this yesterday! Pretty bummed about it. I ran Clayton to the Indian hwy in November and had an enjoyable time. Wife and I where just talking about heading in from Indian hwy to 3 sticks next month.
Guess I'll need to find somewhere else to enjoy the lifestyle

Thanks for posting


OB 1864

It sucks, I know. But OK is loaded with great legal rads/trails to run. So fret not. Just takes a little research to find em. And there is still a reasonable portion of the KTrail that is legal.

 

[Zheking]

I read this a few days ago posted on some random jeep site that popped up in my news feed on face book. And I say, take it with a grain of salt, as with everything on the internet.

Oklahoma has weird laws on whether or not you need private property no trespass signs, and it depends on land use. Oklahoma DOES require signs; unless it is agricultural land, none of which the Ktrail runs through ( farming, ranching, or forestry purposes) what the k-trail runs through, from what I gather and understand, it is hunting land.... OK HB2984 (passed in 2006) states that for the agriculutural land, no sign is needed. However OK Staute 21-1835 (passed in 2014) specifically states "Property that is fenced or not fenced must have such signs placed conspicuously and at all places where entry to the property is normally expected."

I've seen other places cite the following, but did not reference any specific law. "OKLAHOMA: Signs are required at all entrances and all corners and at 200 yard intervals along property lines.

There's a lot of mystery around that portion of the K-trail as people have always been going back and forth saying you can, you can't run it, you need a permit, etc etc.

If I ever run the K-trail (would be from east to west, so I'll just turn around and go back when needed), I'll just call and find out for myself.

This literally only applies to like 10% of the entire trail anyways...

"it's on the internet... it must be true."

 

[The GrooGrux King]

I read this a few days ago posted on some random jeep site that popped up in my news feed on face book. And I say, take it with a grain of salt, as with everything on the internet.

Oklahoma has weird laws on whether or not you need private property no trespass signs, and it depends on land use. Oklahoma DOES require signs; unless it is agricultural land, none of which the Ktrail runs through ( farming, ranching, or forestry purposes) what the k-trail runs through, from what I gather and understand, it is hunting land.... OK HB2984 (passed in 2006) states that for the agriculutural land, no sign is needed. However OK Staute 21-1835 (passed in 2014) specifically states "Property that is fenced or not fenced must have such signs placed conspicuously and at all places where entry to the property is normally expected."

I've seen other places cite the following, but did not reference any specific law. "OKLAHOMA: Signs are required at all entrances and all corners and at 200 yard intervals along property lines.

There's a lot of mystery around that portion of the K-trail as people have always been going back and forth saying you can, you can't run it, you need a permit, etc etc.

If I ever run the K-trail (would be from east to west, so I'll just turn around and go back when needed), I'll just call and find out for myself.

This literally only applies to like 10% of the entire trail anyways...

"it's on the internet... it must be true."

Any new information on this? I'm in the same boat as you, as I have been in the past, years ago. Its a great trail and convenient for those of us in NTX. That particular Facebook post is the only place that the information is stated regarding its legal status. Like you mentioned, if something is private, it is typically posted or marked. With that being said, it really leaves a lot of 'loop holes' if you will.

 

[Zheking]

Any new information on this? I'm in the same boat as you, as I have been in the past, years ago. Its a great trail and convenient for those of us in NTX. That particular Facebook post is the only place that the information is stated regarding its legal status. Like you mentioned, if something is private, it is typically posted or marked. With that being said, it really leaves a lot of 'loop holes' if you will.

Hoping to do it later this summer from east to west to check it out / see if I see private property signs. Waiting on rig parts presently.

 

[The GrooGrux King]

Sounds good. be sure to update us here since it seems like you'll be the most recent person to travel it. And of coruse, try to snag as many photos as possible.

 

[Craig M]

I've been hearing about the nail boards and the private property debate for years, and frankly that has been enough to keep me from bothering.

 

[The GrooGrux King]

Natural Overland was just out there last fall though and didn't report any problems. That is why it is hard to keep up with the Rumor Mill.

 

[Craig M]

Natural Overland was just out there last fall though and didn't report any problems. That is why it is hard to keep up with the Rumor Mill.

True, and I will say that I could have been hearing multiple accounts of the same instance.

 

[UnderPressure]

As I posted above, we ran the part of the trail in question. A few weeks later is when all this talk of private property started. On a local trail groups FB page a gentleman called the local game warden and sheriff. They said it's trssapassing with fines and impoundment. Before venturing to run this trail, I strongly advise you call the authorities first. Fines and impoundments sounds like a bad time

 

[The GrooGrux King]

As I posted above, we ran the part of the trail in question. A few weeks later is when all this talk of private property started. On a local trail groups FB page a gentleman called the local game warden and sheriff. They said it's trssapassing with fines and impoundment. Before venturing to run this trail, I strongly advise you call the authorities first. Fines and impoundments sounds like a bad time

I don't think anyone intends nor condones breaking the law or venturing into private property. I believe it was more so on questioning the credibility of the source.

The statement said, " It's been a private road for years and years now. It's 100% private land on both sides of the road (as we knew), and IT'S A PRIVATE ROAD as well (no different than someone's driveway). Has been for a LONG time apparently. This isn't a recent deal."

I think the confusion arose from people being out there enjoying themselves for 'years and years' and we never confronted on anything related to their presence on the K Trail. I was out there the summer of 2010 (years ago - lol) and there was a local LEO at the western entrance, in Clayton, and he waved us as we accessed Wildewood Acres Road. No questions asked and no problems following. I'm not saying the information above is false, but it is the only post that I have seen concerning the K Trial and its accessibility or lack there of legally and there has been a people/group on the K Trail post information was shared.

Although, I do agree with you, calling the authorities is one way to figure it all out. I will probably have to connect with the local PD as well as Game Warden to confirm what is and what isn't accurate. Seems posting signs or a gate would pretty much answer all the questions and would give no excuse to future trespassers.

 

[Tincan]

Hi folks,

Just joined the site to get more info on this thread. I just took a trip to the K-trail area this weekend w/o knowing any of this information. I decided to take the Honobia river trail northeast from where the Indian Highway ends in Honobia and had a great time. However, on the way back out, the gate (which I didn't even notice going in) was shut and "dummy" locked. This made me a little nervous so I started looking into the politics of the area. We ran into a few locals and one group of wheelers. Everyone was very nice and I didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong.

Long story short, I'd like to go back for some extended travel, but I'm curious if I can get any more specific info on what areas avoid. I grew up in Utah where just about everything was public land, and dealing with private properly issues seems foreign to me.

Any input from members familiar with the area would be great.

 

[TXFoster]

This is so annoying.
I just called the Sheriff (Patrol Commander for the are around Clayton) and he was like "Come on!". He didnt indicate any issues. Just don't be stupid. He and his deputies just had to drag somebody out after they killed themselves driving their rock crawler around back there while drinking.
I'll call the Forest Ranger today and see what he says.
Given the trail's popularity it seems like there should be better information. Or perhaps all of the misinformation is part of the fun.
Worst case: I'll find a trail in the Ozarks to explore.

 

[Tincan]

This is so annoying.
I just called the Sheriff (Patrol Commander for the are around Clayton) and he was like "Come on!". He didnt indicate any issues. Just don't be stupid. He and his deputies just had to drag somebody out after they killed themselves driving their rock crawler around back there while drinking.
I'll call the Forest Ranger today and see what he says.
Given the trail's popularity it seems like there should be better information. Or perhaps all of the misinformation is part of the fun.
Worst case: I'll find a trail in the Ozarks to explore.

Thanks! I've been a little suspicious of the stories you hear as well...We are dealing with the "bigfoot capital" so stories of legend seem to thrive in this area. I'll be going back for sure.

 

[TXFoster]

Finally got around to calling the game warden. Nice guy, but I'm sure he's going to get annoyed getting called about this.
So the story is as posted above: private property. if there is a complaint you get a ticket for trespassing. yadda yadda yadda.

Too bad. Folks around there need to get their * together. I'll spend my money somewhere else where people want me.

Ozark National forest looks interesting.......

 

[Vandy]

Finally got around to calling the game warden. Nice guy, but I'm sure he's going to get annoyed getting called about this.
So the story is as posted above: private property. if there is a complaint you get a ticket for trespassing. yadda yadda yadda.

Too bad. Folks around there need to get their * together. I'll spend my money somewhere else where people want me.

Ozark National forest looks interesting.......

I think part of the problem is, and this is my opinion from what I've seen and prior to that been told, the people in this part of Oklahoma are a little off. Dont get me wrong, there are some great people down there in town and in the tourist areas. When you get off the beaten track I've ran into a lot of strange, unfriendly people. They seem to live out there for a reason and dont want to be bothered. That said its 2 bad because it's a pretty cool area.

As far as the ozark nat forest. Amazing area. We took a trip out there a couple months ago and it's well worth it. I def reccomend checking it out.




Sent from my SM-G965U using OB Talk mobile app

 

[TXFoster]

When I was talking with the Sheriff he mentioned that a lot of the land along the trail is hunting leases. So I wonder if I could find an owner of one of those leases who would be ameanable to an AirBNB type arrangement for a weekend. That would provide the necassary coverage for using the trail: you're going camping on the land you're renting for the weekend.