Jeep TJ payload!

[Fred25246]

So, for our last exploration adventure in the Ozarks I had quite a bit of weight in the ole TJ with plywood shelving, 32qt refrigerator, a 45qt Yeti, 10 gal fuel, basic tools, roll-cage, hard top, roof rack and RTT. I did not weigh it all. My rear was squatting quit a bit even with the Rubicon express 3.5" lift coils that have the highest spring rate of 240lb/in. What can I do to add a helper spring? Does anyone make an air bag for lift coils? I remember in the 90's a few companies were building small coil springs that fit over the shocks.
Not a "coil over" in the seance that we think of coil overs. Just cheap shocks with a coil spring like on a 4 wheeler.
Most of the weight is in the roll cage (130#), hard top (150#), roof rack (98#), RTT (120#), two jerry cans of fuel (75#), and a spare tire and wheel (87#). After that its just food, water/drinks, a single burner butane stove, one 10" pot, a couple of very basic tools, and a change of clothes. I used both jerry cans of fuel and ended up with 1/4 tank at the end of my last trip. My 2004 TJ has a payload of 800# and that's 660#'s just in the things that I know the weight on and they are not exactly "leave behind" items. I didn't even count the winch and winch bumper because its kind of acting as a counter weight.
It is a Rubicon, so Dana 44 axles.
Thanks.
A trailer is an option but I'm building my house in a couple of months so I wont have the time for a trailer build until next year at best.

 

[Dilldog]

Stuff like this has been discussed quite a bit here. Ill start by saying what I always say, if you exceed your GVWR you do open yourself up to tickets and litigation, so tread carefully. Also the Jeep Dana44s are not the same axles as a full sized pickups, the tubes are thinner, and the axles and bearings are smaller. So just because you have a D44 doesnt mean you can automatically haul more (you can pull more on a trailer as the differential is bigger, thus able to handle more load). Just food for thought, Ill let the more experienced guys give you advice on your issue, but I would just go trailer.

 

[Billiebob]

My 2004 TJ has a payload of 800# and that's 660#'s just in the things that I know the weight on and they are not exactly "leave behind" items.

Don't forget to add in the people, driver and passengers. And next time you are all loaded up, scale it.

All vehicles weight rating are based on stock spec. Contrary to internet intelligence, lifting it, bigger tires, load on the roof all detract from the stock vehicles capability.

 

[Downs]

Stuff like this has been discussed quite a bit here. Ill start by saying what I always say, if you exceed your GVWR you do open yourself up to tickets and litigation, so tread carefully. Also the Jeep Dana44s are not the same axles as a full sized pickups, the tubes are thinner, and the axles and bearings are smaller. So just because you have a D44 doesnt mean you can automatically haul more (you can pull more on a trailer as the differential is bigger, thus able to handle more load). Just food for thought, Ill let the more experienced guys give you advice on your issue, but I would just go trailer.

Yeah they're bastardized D44s. The front is a D44 center section with nearly all D30 parts past that. It's a weird duck and not as strong as people think they are.

So, for our last exploration adventure in the Ozarks I had quite a bit of weight in the ole TJ with plywood shelving, 32qt refrigerator, a 45qt Yeti, 10 gal fuel, basic tools, roll-cage, hard top, roof rack and RTT. I did not weigh it all. My rear was squatting quit a bit even with the Rubicon express 3.5" lift coils that have the highest spring rate of 240lb/in. What can I do to add a helper spring? Does anyone make an air bag for lift coils? I remember in the 90's a few companies were building small coil springs that fit over the shocks.
Not a "coil over" in the seance that we think of coil overs. Just cheap shocks with a coil spring like on a 4 wheeler.
Most of the weight is in the roll cage (130#), hard top (150#), roof rack (98#), RTT (120#), two jerry cans of fuel (75#), and a spare tire and wheel (87#). After that its just food, water/drinks, a single burner butane stove, one 10" pot, a couple of very basic tools, and a change of clothes. I used both jerry cans of fuel and ended up with 1/4 tank at the end of my last trip. My 2004 TJ has a payload of 800# and that's 660#'s just in the things that I know the weight on and they are not exactly "leave behind" items. I didn't even count the winch and winch bumper because its kind of acting as a counter weight.
It is a Rubicon, so Dana 44 axles.
Thanks.
A trailer is an option but I'm building my house in a couple of months so I wont have the time for a trailer build until next year at best.

Well the Roof Rack and RTT aren't exactly necessities just niceties. There's over 200 lbs there. What's the point of a fridge and a giant Yeti cooler? I'm actually surprised you fit even those two items in and had any room for anything else. Reducing some weight would also result in slightly better fuel economy. The Ozarks isn't exactly known for having long distances between fuel stops. Delete one of those fuel cans and plan an extra fuel stop. Or remove both and plan more fuel stops. I rarely travel with a spare fuel can anymore unless I'm going a place like Big Bend or some parts in the west. Even on my NM BDR trip I didn't carry extra fuel.

What you are seeking in the shock department is "overload shocks". But keep in mind these add stress to the shock mounting points they were never designed to handle.

Another option is load assist airbags. These typically fit inside your coil spring and you air them up as needed. When they are deflated they offer no assist so you can let the air out when you aren't so loaded down. The basic systems you adjust manually are quite affordable or you can step up to auto leveling systems that cost a good bit more.

Wrangler (TJ) Suspension Air Helper Spring Kit

Your Jeep Wrangler (TJ) Suspension Air Helper Spring Kit source with low prices and FREE shipping on Jeep Wrangler (TJ) Suspension Air Helper Spring Kit tires, wheels, bumpers, tops, lift kits and more.

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I'll also jump on with Dilldog here and warn you against overloading. It happens all too often in our community then people wonder why they're breaking suspension parts on simple roads like the Mojave Road.

 

[Dilldog]

I was under the impression the rears were a D35 with a 44s 8.5" center section, so same tubes, shafts and bearings as a base TJ.

 

[Fred25246]

I'm aware of the difference in a Jeep D44 and a truck D44. I'm also aware in the difference between a Jeep D44 and a Jeep D35. Which is why I mentioned the D44.
Where are these fuel stops in the Ozarks at? Oark is the only one I know of. There's a few single pump stations I found just outside but all are closed on Sunday.
The only Air Lift systems I've found are for stock spring height. I wouldn't think they'd be very effective in a 3.5" lift coil spring. Looks like I may be building something for a helper spring as I,m defiantly not ditching the RTT which requires the roof rack. Most of my trips are Base camp style. I built my roof rack with extensions to fit in the back of my truck to house the RTT leaving the TJ doors off and no top.

 

[Fred25246]

Also I trailer the TJ to and from the trail.

 

[Billiebob]

Speaking of pumps in the outback, here is a gravity pump still in service 40 miles from home.

 

[Shamu]

Speaking of pumps in the outback, here is a gravity pump still in service 40 miles from home.

View attachment 159607

I would plan a trip just to use that fuel pump!

 

[Shamu]

I shed 90+ lbs hanging from my rear bumper (swing-out tire carrier) and replaced it with a Morryde tailgate reinforcement. Modified an EVO JK Rotopax mount to fit the TJ Rubicon Spare wheel center. Able to carry 8 gal of gas (2 x 2 gal Rotopax on the spare tire carrier and a 3 gal secured to the newly installed roof rack). Inside carrying 10 gal of water in 4 x 2.5 gal cans. Good for our 5+ day Canyonlands trips with comfortable fuel levels back to the Hite fuel pumps.

First TJ trip to the Maze District. This was with only 5 gallons of gas, less than a quarter tank remaining arriving at Hite! Even with the soft top she’s got quite the rear squat.

Most recent trip to the Lincoln NF in the Guadalupe Mtns (southern NM). Yakima rails & aero bars supporting a Megawarrior rack. Better rear suspension travel even with the hard top. Toilet, traction boards, and 3 gal Rotopax on top.

Always a work in progress tuning camping gear and internal storage. Latest setup (minus the Gazelle T3 tent - fits across the rear wheel wells behind the shelves with the other items packed under, sleeping bag & air mattress, clothes, food):

 

[Fred25246]

Well I don't feel quite as bad now, I'm at about the same rear squat as you. Its not bad until you get into situations like the second picture.

 

[KonzaLander]

I used to run my TJ pretty heavy. I found the Rubicon Express 3.5" coils to be worthless at carrying any load. I tried a few springs (+10 years ago) and settled on the Nth Degree progressive rate LJ springs. They are tuned to support more weight in a LJ and when installed in a lighter weight TJ they are able to handle more of a load. Unfortunately Nth Degree products are no longer available and I am not sure if any spring manufacture makes a LJ specific spring any more, but I bet a comparable progressive spring is made by somebody.

If you want to try to airbag route, you will probably need to get a hold of the company with your spring and ride measurements to get a bag suited for your lift.

I would not use helper springs on the shocks or air shocks with out some additional shock brackets. The stock shock brackets on the rear axle are small and not designed to carry a load.

I was under the impression the rears were a D35 with a 44s 8.5" center section, so same tubes, shafts and bearings as a base TJ.

That is not quite right. The Dana 35 has smaller 27 spline 194mm axle shafts and outer bearings while the Dana 44 has 30 spline 226mm axle shafts and outer bearings. The axles do share the same diameter tube and some brake components (depending on options) but that is where the similarities end. All "modern" (excluding the AMC D35, so post 1989ish) Dana 35 axles retain the axle shaft with a c-clip in the differential while all Jeep Dana 44 axles retain the axle shaft with a bearing preload retainer bolted to the end of the axle tube.

 

[Dilldog]

I used to run my TJ pretty heavy. I found the Rubicon Express 3.5" coils to be worthless at carrying any load. I tried a few springs (+10 years ago) and settled on the Nth Degree progressive rate LJ springs. They are tuned to support more weight in a LJ and when installed in a lighter weight TJ they are able to handle more of a load. Unfortunately Nth Degree products are no longer available and I am not sure if any spring manufacture makes a LJ specific spring any more, but I bet a comparable progressive spring is made by somebody.

If you want to try to airbag route, you will probably need to get a hold of the company with your spring and ride measurements to get a bag suited for your lift.

I would not use helper springs on the shocks or air shocks with out some additional shock brackets. The stock shock brackets on the rear axle are small and not designed to carry a load.


That is not quite right. The Dana 35 has smaller 27 spline 194mm axle shafts and outer bearings while the Dana 44 has 30 spline 226mm axle shafts and outer bearings. The axles do share the same diameter tube and some brake components (depending on options) but that is where the similarities end. All "modern" (excluding the AMC D35, so post 1989ish) Dana 35 axles retain the axle shaft with a c-clip in the differential while all Jeep Dana 44 axles retain the axle shaft with a bearing preload retainer bolted to the end of the axle tube.

I stand corrected.

 

[Billiebob]

I would plan a trip just to use that fuel pump!

yep, I spend $20 everytime I drive by it.

 

[RickR]

Unless you put much beefier coil springs or helper springs, the payload is very little at best. The most I ever packed was about 300 lbs in addition to driver and passenger.
That would be 10 gallons of gas, a medium Yeti, a shovel, recover strap and shackles and towels.

In addition to the gear bolted on such as the winch, stinger-bar, swing out tire carrier, larger tires, beefier roll cage and such.

 

[Fred25246]

That's what I'm looking for, thanks. I'll give Metalcloak and Currie a call. They both make progressive rate springs.
Noted on the shock mounting points. Also good info.

 

[Graeman]

So, for our last exploration adventure in the Ozarks I had quite a bit of weight in the ole TJ with plywood shelving, 32qt refrigerator, a 45qt Yeti, 10 gal fuel, basic tools, roll-cage, hard top, roof rack and RTT. I did not weigh it all.

Most of the weight is in the roll cage (130#), hard top (150#), roof rack (98#), RTT (120#), two jerry cans of fuel (75#), and a spare tire and wheel (87#).
A trailer is an option but I'm building my house in a couple of months so I wont have the time for a trailer build until next year at best.

A couple of things that will help you out - the roll cage if factory and the hard top have already been figured in to the factory GVW so you don't have to add them again to your camping weight. Just trying to figure out why you carry both a refrigerator and an ice chest?

 

[Fred25246]

The ice chest was for water and drinks for my son along with my adult drinks. I may could ditch the ice chest and have room temp drinking water, but that means leaving the beer and no ice for the whisky.
The roll cage is an addition as when we're not overlanding I've been known to push the envelope to the point of...well...not on all 4's. lol

 

[MidOH]

Ever see a 2 seat Harley or a Trike and wonder: ''Why not just get a car.?'' An AC Cobra looks and sounds exactly like a Harley. Same chrome and paint, same olde school style, same engine sounds. Adding all the pork of three trunks and a back seat to a motorcycle really kills the fun.

Same with Jeeps. Using them as fullsize trucks completely wrecks what they are. Lightweight is the jeeps best ally. Lose the RTT and rack. Lose the fridge. 50# max per person, and 50# max of recovery gear. Jeep travel should be more like backpacking, less like RV'ing. Check out some gear lists on Whiteblaze.net.

 

[Billiebob]

Unless you put much beefier coil springs or helper springs, the payload is very little at best.

I know the goal is to level the ride but the GVWR is the GVWR even if you change springs.