Jeep Gladiator Steering Repairs

[MidOH]

Isn't there a brace worth adding as well?

For death wobble, your buddies steering damper is a bandaid at best. Dampers can stop it, but are rarely the cause of it. It's a bit like harmonics. One of a cars steering components fails, and due to the slop in other components, at just the right frequency of bounciness, the whole car goes ape. IFS, even in sports cars can get a milder type of death wobble to, it's not just solid axle trucks.

It's usually:
Loose components. Trac bar, worn out pitman arm, gearbox, ball joints.

Incorrect alignment. Caster due to lifts. Front arm angles due to lifts. Zero toe in. Toe in is not the debil, like most mechanics think.

Alignment techs that are just washed up auto techs that can't think for themselves, and just set everything to factory specs. Especially on a non stock vehicle.

Bent wheels. Broken tire belts. Floppy wheel bearings.

 

[Downs]

It could something as simple as a tie rod not tightened to spec. When I got my patriot off the show room floor the people who built it put a screw through a coolant hose for the heating system and it

Isn't there a brace worth adding as well?

For death wobble, your buddies steering damper is a bandaid at best. Dampers can stop it, but are rarely the cause of it. It's a bit like harmonics. One of a cars steering components fails, and due to the slop in other components, at just the right frequency of bounciness, the whole car goes ape. IFS, even in sports cars can get a milder type of death wobble to, it's not just solid axle trucks.

It's usually:
Loose components. Trac bar, worn out pitman arm, gearbox, ball joints.

Incorrect alignment. Caster due to lifts. Front arm angles due to lifts. Zero toe in. Toe in is not the debil, like most mechanics think.

Alignment techs that are just washed up auto techs that can't think for themselves, and just set everything to factory specs. Especially on a non stock vehicle.

Bent wheels. Broken tire belts. Floppy wheel bearings.

Absolutely right but I can't force the guy to let me look over his Jeep. Pretty much everyone there knows about the bandaid steering stabalizer. I've been in XJs more than 20 years now. Dealt with the wobbles more than once. But he wants to let Jeep deal with it under warranty for now.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Totally get it. You could find the issue in 30 seconds, however he wants them to do it.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Mine drives great and has from the time of delivery, I'm not sure I'd want Skip and Gomer working on it if it didn't.

Death wobble and lifted Jeeps. I bet I've watched 100 YouTube videos with people installing lifts, most of them "professional shops", never once have I seen a torque wrench used, ever. Always a bunch of parts flinging, air wrenching, wham-bam youtubery.

Every fastener on that vehicle has a torque specification and it has one for a reason. Torque specs aren't a minimum requirement, they are a specification. People attribute "death wobble" to loose components, which generally is the case, but loose can easily come from initial over tightening which results in stretched /compromised hardware.

I loath a "mechanic" who thinks the only time to respect torque values is on engine internals, and there are so many do it yourselfers that disregard it as well. Jeeps hold their value well but I would never buy one that already has a lift installed unless I knew the guy who did it, and was certain it was done correctly.

 

[MidOH]

Depends. I'd have to roll under it and look.

Pretty sure that every component included on a quality 4" suspension for my F250 is torqued to 4-5 unga dungas. The track bar bolt is torqued to everything a 3/4" electric impact can put out. I guess the pitman arm should be torqued down, but 4 unga's should do fine.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Mine drives great and has from the time of delivery, I'm not sure I'd want Skip and Gomer working on it if it didn't.

Death wobble and lifted Jeeps. I bet I've watched 100 YouTube videos with people installing lifts, most of them "professional shops", never once have I seen a torque wrench used, ever. Always a bunch of parts flinging, air wrenching, wham-bam youtubery.

Every fastener on that vehicle has a torque specification and it has one for a reason. Torque specs aren't a minimum requirement, they are a specification. People attribute "death wobble" to loose components, which generally is the case, but loose can easily come from initial over tightening which results in stretched /compromised hardware.

I loath a "mechanic" who thinks the only time to respect torque values is on engine internals, and there are so many do it yourselfers that disregard it as well. Jeeps hold their value well but I would never buy one that already has a lift installed unless I knew the guy who did it, and was certain it was done correctly.

This mechanic uses his on EVERYTHING. I agree with you 100 percent. I torque EVERYTHING!

 

[Downs]

This mechanic uses his on EVERYTHING. I agree with you 100 percent. I torque EVERYTHING!

I try to unless I just can't finagle a torque wrench in there. Habits from aircraft maintenance where deviating from torque specs is a big no no.

 

[smritte]

Why do we torque things?
Most do it because their told to, not because they understand why. Some people want to be rebels and wont torque anything. Each person will argue that their right and say "I've been doing this for years and I've never had a problem"

Why do we torque things?
The answer has everything to do with fatigue. Do you understand tensile strength or shear? If not you shouldn't touch anything critical. Torqueing is great but everything has a life span. Even if you properly torque, the bolt can eventually fatigue. How long? The answer has too many variables. Torqueing means they will live out their normal life span. Not torqueing means they wont. You never want the bolt to be the weak point.

Reinstalling old bolts can be a double edge sword. Sometimes their fine, sometimes not. Did the guy before you over torque? How do you know? Did the manufacture over kill the bolt size? If it was way over torqued you sure as hell don't want to reuse it. Some bolts even properly torqued are one use only.

In my professional career, I have only seen a few people who should actually be working on vehicles. I've seen things under and over torqued my whole life. I've seen catastrophic failures from both.

Anyone actually know what their oil drain plug torque is? How about the caliper slider bolts? What about the caliper slider bolt that had the bolt replaced with a lesser grade? What's the torque now and can you tell by looking at it? Do most high torque bolts need to be lubed first? Do you know what you should or should not be using for thread lube? Should you be lubing wheel lug studs and what happens when you do or not? If you can honestly answer yes, you are a minority.

Its funny how people tend to react when when confronted with an unknown. In the auto business, the first rule is "a technician is always right". If they over torque or under torque a wheel and it breaks or falls off, its not his fault. Its "the car is a piece of crap" or "the customer must have done something".

Its not his fault because "I've been doing it like this for 20 years and I never have a problem".

Second rule in a shop is, "don't argue with a technician" (see rule 1). What qualifies someone to be a technician? All you need is a bag with a few tools and be slightly mechanically inclined.

I started working for GM in 1979. By 1984, I was a certified GM master tech in a shop with 9 guys. I would struggle with things and when I would question why something failed, the answer was normally "Just replace it, don't worry why". That is how most are trained and I wasn't any different. Then I went to community collage and took automotive. All I can say is WOW. 3 years of night classes to finish and get my AS degree. Later on I found myself wanting more and started taking engineering classes. Now the WOW really came in.

All that time and experience taught me two things, most people get lucky with what they work on and for the first few years and I never should have been allowed to work on cars.

Remember, you need to be certified to cut hair, you don't need to be certified to do brakes. Brakes can kill people, a bad hair cut just pisses people off. I can tech a Racoon to do brakes. That doesn't mean he understands what he's doing or their done safely. Torque or not. Its up to you. If something fails, learn why. Don't blame the vehicle. Odds you did something wrong.

This is not pointed at anyone nor is it finding fault. Don't take offence. I have watched things for years, discussed, trained and helped literally hundreds of people over my lifetime. When I would have a problem, I would go learn about that system or component. Most of the time I found the issue was me not knowing.

 

[Ubiety]

As I have seen on the internet, several JL and JT (Gladiator) owners have had issues with the vehicle wandering while driving. A steering problem that I had especially on rough or uneven pavement. My steering wheel would move between 5 and 10 degrees without resistance or moving the wheels. I looked at the steering brackets, upgrading rods, etc. But the real issue is the steering box! One YouTube video showed how to take out some of the "backlash" in the steering box. I showed this to my dealership service manager and they jumped on it. It helped but still too much play. In fact there was no more adjustment to be made. Then I viewed another video on a Jeep Dealer Notification suggesting customers who complained would be able to get a FIX! I had the notification ID number and again approached the dealership. Their service staff checked it out and ordered the part. A month later after checking to see where my part was we learned Jeep had cancelled the order so she re-entered the order. This time it came in. Fixed today and so far it works as steering should. Responsive and any minor movement of the steering wheel moves the tires. By the way it was a complete steering box replacement! Well JEEP this should be done in the factory and not after the fact. Other than this the unit has performed flawlessly, is great off road and in my opinion the best consumer grade factory built off road capable unit made. The bed rack is made in Calgary Canada by Tradewest Manufacturing. It is adjustable so fits my Gladiator or my Tundra and designed to be able to use a tonneau cover.

Thanks for the tip! No problems with mine but will keep this in mind. My 2020 copy drives much much nicer down the road than the JKU ever did.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

I try to unless I just can't finagle a torque wrench in there. Habits from aircraft maintenance where deviating from torque specs is a big no no.

The way I see it, I torque everything. It's one less thing that my clients need to worry about. I have my 4 torque wrenches on my bench at all times.