Pathfinder I
Yep, I’m always amazed at the rigs with multiple Jerry cans of fuel they probably don’t need (not so true in DV) & yet essentially no extra water. I can’t count the times I’ve needed to give people water.
Is this one of us?
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Well said.
Whenever I go out in the desert, even for a day trip, I bring more fuel, food, and water than I think I will need - partially in case I get stuck, but more often than not, to rescue people who are not prepared. I saw it happen in Moab all the time with cyclists who burn through their water in a few hours on an all-day trek.
Once going into Canyonlands' Maze, a group of ADV motorcycles stopped and asked for fuel. Unfortunately, I was carrying my max load for myself and didn't have any to spare, I told them their best bet was to siphon all the fuel into one bike, strip it of luggage so it could carry nothing but the Rotopax, and send it for gas.
Pathfinder I
Well that certainly is a very remote area where you might need extra gas. Those are some lonely gas stations in Hanksville.
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His roof rack wasn't tough enough to haul it out plus he and his wife couldn't get it up there to start with.
What I want to know is if he left his rear, where did he find a spare out there in the boon docks. Where did this picture come from ?
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I feel for you man, that was quite an ordeal I wouldn't want happening to me. You answered my question about where you got another rear end out there in the boon docks.
Yeah, this is water under the bridge now, but what an interesting thread! I've been in bad situations before and hearing A-Aron's story, I totally get it, a man is in full survival mode at a time like that. You handle the situation and deal with collateral stuff later. I also get the folk who were upset with the axle left behind. People do dump stuff all the time and I live out in sugar cane farming area and the farmers have clear outs on their property on the side of the road where they stage up equipment when they harvest. These clear outs become dump sites where people dispose of refridgerators, mattresses, etc. So yeah, most of the dumping is deliberate and aggravating and when I see that out out in the wilderness, I get heated, too. A-Arons case is different, but not knowing any different, its easy to assume the worst. But that's what I like about this community and why I joined as member last week...you have guys on here that are passionate about not leaving stuff behind and will call you out on it and there are people on here that are compassionate and will have your back. A good balance. So in reading this thread, it further emphasis the need for me to be diligent on cleaning up after myself in any situation and I also want to be a helpful member who can help others in times like this. I live in the swamps of south Louisiana, so I doubt I'd make it to DV to recover an axle...BUT if any of you guys get in a jam in my neck of the woods, Ill have your back.
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It also shows poor planning and lack of due diligence to take responsibility for ones own actions. Yes saving the family is priority but not putting them at risk would come even before that. One comment about a lack of information about Death Valley is mind boggling. There are tons of websites dedicated to Death Valley and others for the surrounding areas. That comment alone leaves me in doubt. Before my first trip to DV, over ten years ago, I probably bought at least two different types of maps and three books. I went solo and fortunately didn't have any mechanical issues. Spent a couple very cold nights in the desert and learned my planning wasn't enough. Even at that time information on the web was quite accessible.
Other comments referring to other debris out there is weak at best. Most of the things remaining in DVNP qualify for historical protection. The party in question noted that the only people who need to be concerned have been contacted. Wrong. This is a national park and everyone has a right to be concerned. Actions such as leaving blatant vehicle parts and fluids behind only gives power to the people who would like routes like Dedeckera Canyon closed to vehicular traffic. I will reference Surprise Canyon and access to Panamint City. Forever closed except by foot. I've met with current park officials in the past and sincerely doubt they have no issue with the items left behind.
AFAIK the person who recovered the axle is still awaiting any communication regarding what the owner would like done with it. Wonder what the park service is deciding on doing about the fenders left behind.
Other comments referring to other debris out there is weak at best. Most of the things remaining in DVNP qualify for historical protection. The party in question noted that the only people who need to be concerned have been contacted. Wrong. This is a national park and everyone has a right to be concerned. Actions such as leaving blatant vehicle parts and fluids behind only gives power to the people who would like routes like Dedeckera Canyon closed to vehicular traffic. I will reference Surprise Canyon and access to Panamint City. Forever closed except by foot. I've met with current park officials in the past and sincerely doubt they have no issue with the items left behind.
AFAIK the person who recovered the axle is still awaiting any communication regarding what the owner would like done with it. Wonder what the park service is deciding on doing about the fenders left behind.
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That is correct. Despite his word, he has not contacted me in any way since my posting. The axle housing has been sitting in a back corner waiting for further instructions from the owner. I had forgetting about it.
Just as I thought. Lots of excuses and internet bloviating about how great an "overlander" and steward of the outdoors one is with zero follow through. A-Aron please don't come back to DVNP unless it is to retrieve the trash you left behind.
I did receive several PM's from Micheal, but most notably an OB membership, badge, patch and a baseball cap. I should have just asked that whatever the cost was for them to send me those items just be donated to Corva, or some other Land Use Organization. I am still grateful for those items don't get me wrong on that.
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Enthusiast III
I hate seeing (and having to pick up) trash along the trail as much as anyone, but @BlueFalcon you sound like a real ass! It is people like you who really give this community a bad name. I am new to this whole overlanding thing and I dread going on a group ride with someone like you; pretentious, high and mighty guardian of all things outdoors. No one likes that attitude (well some might). Do we all need friendly reminders sometimes...yes. Do we need Captain Planet following us around measuring our cat hole to make sure it is at least 12 inches deep...NO!
I'm guessing that they still are then. From the picture can I assume that they are in or close to the Narrows in Dedeckera Cyn?
Sad that people are more interested in pointing fingers than fixing the problem.
Amusing. So as an "overlander" you are ok with poor planning and putting oneself and family in jeopardy? I've been enjoying the outdoors all my life and have seen the closures of areas due to asinine behavior. No captain planet here but you are free to assume. If following rules/regs, practicing leave no trace, and actually planning/researching for a camping trip gives the "community" a bad name then I would question what type of trail etiquette guides you. No need to detract from the fact that no follow up was done on the part of the individuals who left their parts in Northwest Death Valley.
Carry on.
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Pathfinder I
Honestly all good points & it is disappointing that A-Aron hasn’t followed through. As for making mistakes, everyone makes them. I’ve been doing this for decades and it’s the more supportive, collegial approach to newcomers that I appreciate the most in this new “Overlanding Explosion”. The reality is there will be more people out there, whether you like it or not. The most constructive thing we can do is lend our wisdom & support. Chastising people just drives people into the dark and causes more problems. That attitude reigned in decades past & frankly, it was terrible. I wouldn’t wish those days on newcomers at all. While I can understand anger & frustration, venting it on other people and publicly simply accomplishes the opposite of what we all want. I suggest going out of your way to welcome & support people. Teach them good habits through thoughtful leadership, mentorship & example.
Enthusiast III
I think you misunderstood me. It is not your planning/researching, leave no trace/tread lightly practices that gives the community a bad name. It is your pretentious, high and mighty, a-hole attitude that gives the bad name. If OB consists of people like you then I don't want anything to do with it! I am not condoning A-Aron's actions nor am I criticizing them. I don't know his circumstances or thoughts. What I do know is attitudes like yours diminishes the value of OB and ostracizes people.
Influencer III
Hey guys,
Have any of you read the community guidelines? Badmouthing and belittling other members is not what we are about. We are a community to help, encourage and learn from one another mistakes. We have all made them and trust me when I say we are all probably more hard on ourselves than anyone else could be. Lets keep things clean here. There is absolutely no reason to be a jerk to one another as there are plenty of other forums for that nonsense.
Here is a link to our Community guidelines please review!!
www.overlandbound.com
Have any of you read the community guidelines? Badmouthing and belittling other members is not what we are about. We are a community to help, encourage and learn from one another mistakes. We have all made them and trust me when I say we are all probably more hard on ourselves than anyone else could be. Lets keep things clean here. There is absolutely no reason to be a jerk to one another as there are plenty of other forums for that nonsense.
Here is a link to our Community guidelines please review!!
Community Guidelines - Overland Bound
www.overlandbound.com
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Member III
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Are we not our brothers keepers ? I have found that not all our brethren are equal in brain power, although some may feel superior to those with a greater knowledge.
I practice tolerance knowing that others are learning and will make mistakes. We learn from those mistakes painfully at times. Walk in the other mans shoes before you condemn him I would say. I respect the good advice I am given by those with a greater knowledge than me, I am a constant learner but a very cautious one in all things. I am new to the overland scene but I am not new to the earning cycle. I take all advise in good grace and use common sense that I would like to think most of us do. We are brothers in all things, overland bound is our goal.
Here's my opinion that I have been withholding hoping for further discussion of this matter. And I hope that this discussion/thread does not get locked or even deleted. This discussion has been civil thus far, and I'm actually amazed that community guidelines have been posted suggesting otherwise, that is just nuts..
This was not a mistake, it was pure negligence. Both the axle housing and the trailer fenders could have been brought down to Lizard Lee's compound for coordination for it's removal out of the Park. Lizard Lee for those that don't know is the permanent camp host/ caretaker of the Saline Valley Hot Springs, both Lower and Upper. There is an unofficial "motor pool" for vehicle repair and other accommodations that are uniquely situated at host's compound . Unofficial because it must not be recognized as such by the Park Officials.
The Toyota Sequoia and Chevy Suburban after it was fixed had to make their way back down to the Hot Springs to pick up the trailers, a perfect opportunity to drop everything off at the compound. Their campsite was 3/4's of a mile from the camp host. I know this because I was camped adjacent to the brothers and their families. I also had spoken to the wives just prior to going up to and through Steele Pass into Dedeckera Canyon where I came across the brothers while they were performing the swap. I offered help which they declined.
I also passed them on the North Saline Road while en-route to the Hot Springs, they were towing the trailer that I'm assuming that was the one that they removed the fenders off of. At least one of the fenders could have been reattached in my opinion.
This was not a mistake, it was pure negligence. Both the axle housing and the trailer fenders could have been brought down to Lizard Lee's compound for coordination for it's removal out of the Park. Lizard Lee for those that don't know is the permanent camp host/ caretaker of the Saline Valley Hot Springs, both Lower and Upper. There is an unofficial "motor pool" for vehicle repair and other accommodations that are uniquely situated at host's compound . Unofficial because it must not be recognized as such by the Park Officials.
The Toyota Sequoia and Chevy Suburban after it was fixed had to make their way back down to the Hot Springs to pick up the trailers, a perfect opportunity to drop everything off at the compound. Their campsite was 3/4's of a mile from the camp host. I know this because I was camped adjacent to the brothers and their families. I also had spoken to the wives just prior to going up to and through Steele Pass into Dedeckera Canyon where I came across the brothers while they were performing the swap. I offered help which they declined.
I also passed them on the North Saline Road while en-route to the Hot Springs, they were towing the trailer that I'm assuming that was the one that they removed the fenders off of. At least one of the fenders could have been reattached in my opinion.
Influencer II
All,
As @Cendee mentioned, please review the community guidelines. If this thread continues to devolve into name calling I will close it, and take whatever further action is needed on individuals involved. Please be respectful to one another. If you have an axe to grind, do it in private, and do it appropriately.
As @Cendee mentioned, please review the community guidelines. If this thread continues to devolve into name calling I will close it, and take whatever further action is needed on individuals involved. Please be respectful to one another. If you have an axe to grind, do it in private, and do it appropriately.
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