iOverlander - A call Out To Members

[Polaris Overland]

Let me begin by expressing my appreciation for iOverlander.

We've relied heavily on it during our travels, particularly outside of the UK and Europe, where finding spots for wild camping or parking isn't as challenging due to the more relaxed relationship between locals and travellers. Many times, especially when darkness crept in and we were in unfamiliar territory, iOverlander came to our rescue, providing a discreet and comfortable area to park.

However, there's a caveat.

In several instances, the locations weren't suitable for a roof tent, a fact that wasn't always clearly communicated in the description. While vans, self-contained campers, cars, and ground tents were accommodated, the unique needs of roof tents, which straddle the line between these styles, weren't always met, leading to some issues.

Adding to this, many of the locations I've come across in the UK haven't been visited in over five years. In reality, the UK has undergone significant changes, dealing with a pandemic, lockdowns, and Brexit. In Scotland, for example, the past two winters saw devastating storms that flattened vast stretches of forests and woodlands. So, can we really rely on iOverlander?

The short answer is no.

Take, for instance, a location an hour from Aberdeen described as tucked away up a forest track, out of sight. While accurate in the past, that forest has since been destroyed by the December 2022 storm, leaving behind nothing but a patch of land littered with debris, clearly visible from the road and nearby houses.

So, what's the solution? One option is to ditch iOverlander in favour of Park4Night, a platform that's more populated and frequently updated. However, it still doesn't fully cater to the needs of roof tent users, leaving us in a quandary.

My proposal is simple: leverage the vast network of Overland Bound members across the UK, Europe, and beyond. Why not tap into this resource by asking members to visit iOverlander locations near them? We could organise these visits into Rally Points, where members check the accuracy of the information on iOverlander and update our Overland Bound app accordingly, with details specifically tailored to roof tent users, who make up the majority of our membership.

This additional information could include whether the location is suitable for roof tents, specific details about how discrete it is, level of use, and cleanliness. Members could also take photos to provide others with a better understanding of the spot.

Moreover, if a location is found to be littered or poorly maintained, members could organise clean-up events or "Trail Guardian" initiatives to restore it. After all, arriving at a messy campsite after a long drive is far from ideal.

The benefits of this approach are numerous: a more up-to-date and usable network of locations for all members, less friction with local communities due to our discreet and responsible behaviour, and the proactive enhancement of our surroundings.



A natural progression from this would be for local members to adopt nearby locations. While adopting entire trails, as is done in the USA, might not be feasible in the UK, adopting individual spots and periodically visiting them for clean-ups and updates is certainly achievable.



I'm eager to hear your thoughts. Do you believe this is a worthwhile endeavour? Would you like to be part of it?

 

[Scarab]

I actually really like this idea. I think it's something that could be useful and, not only that, but for the many overlanders who are stuck at home busy working unable to get out on trips as regularly as they'd like it'd be a good way to still connect with the community and contribute.

 

[Z Adventures]

And while we're updating iOverlander points of interest, perhaps we should add those to Overland Bound?

 

[Polaris Overland]

And while we're updating iOverlander points of interest, perhaps we should add those to Overland Bound?

Hi Mark,

The whole point is to make the OB App a better app for the members.
Updating iOverlander I will leave up to the individual themselves. In my case its something I won't do simply because it can and does lead to overuse of an area.
I have seen it with some locations I have added in the past and is the reason many people here in the UK do not like to share their hidden spots.

 

[Polaris Overland]

I actually really like this idea. I think it's something that could be useful and, not only that, but for the many overlanders who are stuck at home busy working unable to get out on trips as regularly as they'd like it'd be a good way to still connect with the community and contribute.

Hi Alex,

I thought I had replied to you but for some reason it must not have loaded or sent correctly.

Exactly what you are saying, this doesn't need to be an organised meet up or Rally Point or a long term trip away.
Members sitting at home planning or dreaming of their next trip can take a day out or night away locally to go check a couple of locations.
Updating the OB App then makes a positive contribution giving value to all the members.

This can be a straight forward or as complicated as you like, it doesn't need lots of time off and does not have to be completed in one go.

So hopefully members in all regions not just West Europe will get on board and help to make the OB App even better.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

Let me begin by expressing my appreciation for iOverlander.

We've relied heavily on it during our travels, particularly outside of the UK and Europe, where finding spots for wild camping or parking isn't as challenging due to the more relaxed relationship between locals and travellers. Many times, especially when darkness crept in and we were in unfamiliar territory, iOverlander came to our rescue, providing a discreet and comfortable area to park.

However, there's a caveat.

In several instances, the locations weren't suitable for a roof tent, a fact that wasn't always clearly communicated in the description. While vans, self-contained campers, cars, and ground tents were accommodated, the unique needs of roof tents, which straddle the line between these styles, weren't always met, leading to some issues.

Adding to this, many of the locations I've come across in the UK haven't been visited in over five years. In reality, the UK has undergone significant changes, dealing with a pandemic, lockdowns, and Brexit. In Scotland, for example, the past two winters saw devastating storms that flattened vast stretches of forests and woodlands. So, can we really rely on iOverlander?

The short answer is no.

Take, for instance, a location an hour from Aberdeen described as tucked away up a forest track, out of sight. While accurate in the past, that forest has since been destroyed by the December 2022 storm, leaving behind nothing but a patch of land littered with debris, clearly visible from the road and nearby houses.

So, what's the solution? One option is to ditch iOverlander in favour of Park4Night, a platform that's more populated and frequently updated. However, it still doesn't fully cater to the needs of roof tent users, leaving us in a quandary.

My proposal is simple: leverage the vast network of Overland Bound members across the UK, Europe, and beyond. Why not tap into this resource by asking members to visit iOverlander locations near them? We could organise these visits into Rally Points, where members check the accuracy of the information on iOverlander and update our Overland Bound app accordingly, with details specifically tailored to roof tent users, who make up the majority of our membership.

This additional information could include whether the location is suitable for roof tents, specific details about how discrete it is, level of use, and cleanliness. Members could also take photos to provide others with a better understanding of the spot.

Moreover, if a location is found to be littered or poorly maintained, members could organise clean-up events or "Trail Guardian" initiatives to restore it. After all, arriving at a messy campsite after a long drive is far from ideal.

The benefits of this approach are numerous: a more up-to-date and usable network of locations for all members, less friction with local communities due to our discreet and responsible behaviour, and the proactive enhancement of our surroundings.



A natural progression from this would be for local members to adopt nearby locations. While adopting entire trails, as is done in the USA, might not be feasible in the UK, adopting individual spots and periodically visiting them for clean-ups and updates is certainly achievable.



I'm eager to hear your thoughts. Do you believe this is a worthwhile endeavour? Would you like to be part of it?

I think that’s quite a great possibility to let those places be checked my OB member and add them with precise information to the map. It takes time and effort but every checked location is a benefit for the community.

Nice idea.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

We probably could as HQ if they can add RTT as a category to the accommodate vehicle. That would be handy. And probably not a big deal.

 

[Viking1204]

I'm curious is to white kind of area wouldn't be suitible for a RTT? I would think if there is room to park the vehicle with the tent on it you should have room to deploy the tent as it doesn't protude from the vehicle too much, at least not the one that I had!

 

[Kent R]

We probably could as HQ if they can add RTT as a category to the accommodate vehicle. That would be handy. And probably not a big deal.

Not right now but its on the list

 

[Kent R]

We probably could as HQ if they can add RTT as a category to the accommodate vehicle. That would be handy. And probably not a big deal.

Ill have an answer hopefully today

 

[Kent R]

There is an update coming out very soon and its too late to add the RTT to it. But for the next update, when inputting a new location ie: Camp Site you will be able to add RTT under Accommodates.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

We probably could as HQ if they can add RTT as a category to the accommodate vehicle. That would be handy. And probably not a big deal.

Not right now but its on the list

Awesome. @Polaris Overland what requirements do you thinking when talking about RTT places. I am travelling with an RTT to and can’t think of a difference between and RTT and a vehicle orRV for example.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

There is an update coming out very soon and its too late to add the RTT to it. But for the next update, when inputting a new location ie: Camp Site you will be able to add RTT under Accommodates.

 

[El-Dracho]

Thanks, Dave, for the good suggestion. I of course welcome the idea of making the OB app even better when it comes to POIs and creating a really valuable and meaningful resource for overlanders.

With this it is important that the entries are really of high quality. This not only affects the overnight places but also all other places. This is sometimes even more so when it comes to POIs with safety instructions, hospitals, border crossings and the like. Especially coordinates and the description needs to be super accurate and up-to-date.

Adding these entries to the map is very easy and I don't see whether we really need iOverlander as a basis as suggested. However, maybe I'm missing something?

We have a great community here with now over 100,000 forum members. If everyone just enters the POIs they know in their immediate surroundings or where usually overlanding, we will quickly have a broader database. Additonally everyone could go through all their POIs saved over many years. We all know that. We just see something of interest along the route, enter a waypoint into the Satnav or an nav app, bookmark links or note it down in our travel notes. But soon it is forgotten again and just another datapoint in the data jungle.

Perhaps we could think again about a quality assurance process. Not that we end up with a similar problem to the one Dave described with iOverlander. Wouldn't it make sense if the POIs were reviewed by someone who is familiar with the respective region? Maybe a review by local experts or other volunteers? Once immediately after the entry and then at a certain frequency? Would this be a good idea to improve data quality? I am willing to volunteer for such reviews and would be happy to donate some time to the community for this.

Using the OB1 app is super handy, even while on the road. And also an offline save is possible when there is no cell connection.

So, give it a try!

 

[Polaris Overland]

Hi Bjoern,

The tie in with iOverlander was as a starting point as it is a database that already exists and would allow local members to go out locally and to target and review the iOverlander POI's to see if they are suitable and up to date for the OB App. If they are then add them to the App if not already listed. If already listed then reveiw tem on the App.

Many of our POI's on the OB App are the same places as iOverlander and as I said iOverlander often does not distinguish between a roof tent or ground tent suitability for example.
Additionally many of the locations are over 5 years since last reviewed and as such out of date, incorrect, closed down or built over. I found with iOverlander you sometimes had to go through the process of looking at many POI's to find the one you wanted and then when you got there it was built over with houses, blocked off or not suitable. This happened for us in Turkey a couple of times and distances between the POI's were not small. In one instance arriving after dark we found the POI was now in the middle of a farm yard.

The quality assurance process is another issue but by having created a current start point we can encourage an ongoing process of review of each location. Maybe some kind of Traffic Light System that would differentiate between suitability and timescale so a POI that had not been visited in say 5 years was instantly recognisable from one that was visited a month ago or even a additional filter showing only locations reveiwed in the last 12 months as an example.

On top of all this it is also an opportunity for members to go out and explore locally and be further participants in the building of the OB App.

 

[El-Dracho]

The quality assurance process is another issue but by having created a current start point we can encourage an ongoing process of review of each location. Maybe some kind of Traffic Light System that would differentiate between suitability and timescale so a POI that had not been visited in say 5 years was instantly recognisable from one that was visited a month ago or even a additional filter showing only locations reveiwed in the last 12 months as an example.

I think the traffic light system is a good idea as a starting point to think it through further. Let's pursue this further. Maybe there are more ideas about this? I will keep it in mind as topic for our next virtual campfire.

 

[Polaris Overland]

Awesome. @Polaris Overland what requirements do you thinking when talking about RTT places. I am travelling with an RTT to and can’t think of a difference between and RTT and a vehicle orRV for example.

I think suitability for a Roof Tent comes from someone who uses a Roof Tent.

Here in the UK laws can affect where you can use a Roof Tent. For example sleeping in a van in a layby is acceptable and if in a car you can park and walk away with your ground tent to camp away from the layby as camping in a layby is not allowed. Roof Tent is classed as camping so not permitted.

Discrete camping is recommended throughout the UK. A van stealth camping is accepted on the arrive late leave early principle. Wild camping in a tent away from houses and roads etc is allowed in Scotland and is a right and accepted in England again if discrete.
A roof top tent unless well hidden away is neither discrete or allowed under the Wild Camping rule. And as such will in many cases result in abuse and or reporting by locals and even cars passing by.

Roof Tent Camping here in the UK is becoming more of a challenge simply because of the current climate against campers of any kind.

Even some official campsites you have to check in advance to see if they will accept a Roof Tent. Some don't so the more information we can give the Roof Tent camper looking to lay up for the night the better.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

Awesome. @Polaris Overland what requirements do you thinking when talking about RTT places. I am travelling with an RTT to and can’t think of a difference between and RTT and a vehicle orRV for example.

I think suitability for a Roof Tent comes from someone who uses a Roof Tent.

Here in the UK laws can affect where you can use a Roof Tent. For example sleeping in a van in a layby is acceptable and if in a car you can park and walk away with your ground tent to camp away from the layby as camping in a layby is not allowed. Roof Tent is classed as camping so not permitted.

Discrete camping is recommended throughout the UK. A van stealth camping is accepted on the arrive late leave early principle. Wild camping in a tent away from houses and roads etc is allowed in Scotland and is a right and accepted in England again if discrete.
A roof top tent unless well hidden away is neither discrete or allowed under the Wild Camping rule. And as such will in many cases result in abuse and or reporting by locals and even cars passing by.

Roof Tent Camping here in the UK is becoming more of a challenge simply because of the current climate against campers of any kind.

Even some official campsites you have to check in advance to see if they will accept a Roof Tent. Some don't so the more information we can give the Roof Tent camper looking to lay up for the night the better.

Ah ok I see. Didn’t know that. In Germany it’s more a kind of a grey zone. But you are right. The situation all over the globe is getting more and more difficult for overlanding in urban areas and even in non urban areas. Because of the some that are not treating the place in a respectful manner.

But I do understand your point I’m about specific requirements for a RTT

And very good to know because I am coming to Scotland in august with an rtt.

 

[Polaris Overland]

Awesome. @Polaris Overland what requirements do you thinking when talking about RTT places. I am travelling with an RTT to and can’t think of a difference between and RTT and a vehicle orRV for example.

I think suitability for a Roof Tent comes from someone who uses a Roof Tent.

Here in the UK laws can affect where you can use a Roof Tent. For example sleeping in a van in a layby is acceptable and if in a car you can park and walk away with your ground tent to camp away from the layby as camping in a layby is not allowed. Roof Tent is classed as camping so not permitted.

Discrete camping is recommended throughout the UK. A van stealth camping is accepted on the arrive late leave early principle. Wild camping in a tent away from houses and roads etc is allowed in Scotland and is a right and accepted in England again if discrete.
A roof top tent unless well hidden away is neither discrete or allowed under the Wild Camping rule. And as such will in many cases result in abuse and or reporting by locals and even cars passing by.

Roof Tent Camping here in the UK is becoming more of a challenge simply because of the current climate against campers of any kind.

Even some official campsites you have to check in advance to see if they will accept a Roof Tent. Some don't so the more information we can give the Roof Tent camper looking to lay up for the night the better.

Ah ok I see. Didn’t know that. In Germany it’s more a kind of a grey zone. But you are right. The situation all over the globe is getting more and more difficult for overlanding in urban areas and even in non urban areas. Because of the some that are not treating the place in a respectful manner.

But I do understand your point I’m about specific requirements for a RTT

And very good to know because I am coming to Scotland in august with an rtt.

I will be in the Alps in July but please keep me updated on your trip and we can try to arrange a get together.

Also if you need any help withnplanning etc please ask.

 

[El-Dracho]

Ah ok I see. Didn’t know that. In Germany it’s more a kind of a grey zone. But you are right. The situation all over the globe is getting more and more difficult for overlanding in urban areas and even in non urban areas. Because of the some that are not treating the place in a respectful manner.

But I do understand your point I’m about specific requirements for a RTT

And very good to know because I am coming to Scotland in august with an rtt.

We have this situation that Dave describes also in other regeions of Europe. For example in Danmark a roof top tent on a car qualifies by regulation as a so called camping unit. Therefore also with a car and RTT overnighting in a parking lot is in general forbidden (sames as with a camper van).

And I also see the often for Germany cited gray area of spending the night in a parking lot to "recover your ability to drive" (as it is so described in the law) as difficult. A truck driver who does this and sleeps in the bunk in his cabin, yes, of course that applies, but where are the boundaries to camping in an RTT or camper van? A very, very thin line. But there's also no point in discussing it philosophically. Rather, it is important that we all find out about the rules that apply in a region before we go there and stick to them so that we can enjoy our hobby for a long time to come.

In this context maybe another idea that I suggested a long time ago for the camping POIs in OB and which we see at iOverlander POIs. What about a note that wildcamping rules are different from area to area and everyone should check the rules before going and please stick to them. What do you think?