(In Your State?) ORV - Soil Retention - Carbon? What Da?!!! They're Serious!

[TSO_NJ]

Serious In NJ:

"... what off-road vehicle use does to soil retention and carbon in the Pinelands.” (NJ)

Requires additional inquiry: Land Use, Climate Impacts & Sustainability Committee Meeting - March 17, 2021

 

[MOAK]

Hmmm, so the person is asking a question. I’m not offended by the question. Seems reasonable to me. However, an honest research effort must prevail. If that happens then people will cherry pick the data they need to enable them to maintain their entrenched opinion. I don’t mind the question, I do mind dishonesty (cherry picking data) being used to manipulate decision makers.

 

[smritte]

Without access to the power point, you cant see if there were pictures of the illegal off road use. It looks like the meeting was about carbon, new pine growth vs old growth and fire. There was mention of grassland and displaced birds. At the end the question was asked if illegal off road use had an impact in this. My first thought is, yes it does. As @MOAK mentioned, one or two pictures presented in the correct light can easily sway a committee. Especially if this person is a good speaker (salesman).

The years I spent doing Adopt a Trail work, these things as well as soil erosion and water contamination issues were brought to the table by "academics" at quite a few of the forest and desert meetings. As much as it pains me to say, they were 100 percent correct. I have been around long enough to see the destruction done by people "blazing trails" with their off road vehicles. The same people screamed when forest service started closing roads. Granted, quite a few of these were made by people cutting trees but the completely trashed meadows, the hill sides where people just drove up repeatedly with nowhere to go, the paths down the center of the creeks was out of control.
This is the ammunition used against off road use, legal or illegal. I attended quite a few meeting where someone put up slide after slide of the devastation "off roaders" did. Of course, it was only the real bad areas but, now who's cherry picking? Back at my club meetings, people were outraged because its our right to drive there. So what if its only one meadow that got destroyed, it wasn't us. Ever seen the pictures of the damage done to the Race Track in Death Valley? How about where someone defaced pictographs that were a thousand years old? Because you had to drive down a long dirt road, off roaders were blamed for it. That's just two that come to mind.

The problem normally isn't the conscious off roader, its the "Yahoo". To this day, they still seem to out number us. With the factories building lifted, locked vehicles, these people have better luck "getting away from the crowds". If that means driving up a stream bed, pushing through the bush's and trees, they have a "set up" vehicle ready to do that. All it takes is someone photographing the one vehicle crashing through the brush, driving up that creek and bringing it to a meeting with the people who's job it is to keep this from happening. One person is enough to get the ball rolling for closure's to start. Once someone puts down a set of tracks, others think that's a legitimate road and follow it to see where it goes. The cycle starts there.

Back to the "meeting minuet's" in the first post, all one can do is hope the illegal off road usage isn't bad enough to force another closure. Too bad it normally does though.

 

[smritte]

Soil retention and carbon are in the same sentence

My experience with statements like that, tell me someone is either misinformed, partially informed or is playing on the ignorance of the group to push an agenda. Its not like we haven't seen that before.

 

[Overlanding Lawyer]

Sadly, many are not good ambassadors of the outdoors. Leave no trace (lack of it) is present in every outing I do. Trash, getting off established trails, toilet paper. If everyone in this group committed to bringing out one more bag of trash then you took in, man what a difference.

 

[9Mike2]

This reminds me of what my Bro-in-law told me about a friend who has a sheep farm in the Calif. central valley. He went to a Enviro meeting that the local Tree-huggers wanted to catch and "spade" the trouble Coyotes that he was having trouble with, this went on for an hour of catch and release. When The Farmer got up to talk, had only one thing say, " the Coyotes aren't screwing my sheep, they's eating them"

 

[North American Sojourner]

My experience with statements like that, tell me someone is either misinformed, partially informed or is playing on the ignorance of the group to push an agenda. Its not like we haven't seen that before.

LOL, Ya think?
First it's NJ. Second, we all need to cut to the chase and admit this is nothing more than a continuation of efforts to hammer shut the entire off road community taking all of drag racing, NASCAR, INDY and everything else with it. If you have time read and understand the RPM act and what it really means for all of us.
Recognizing the Protection of Motorsports Act of 2021 (RPM Act) | Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA)
Thanks
Zim

 

[North American Sojourner]

ALARMING!

Given the evidence about administrations, agencies, and departments restricting our freedoms on numerous fronts, thereby undermining the laws passed by our representatives in Congress, there is a “Hail Mary” option, a true “long shot”.

A bill to “Protect Original Intent, Precedents, And Definitions”

A one size fits all bill to curtail the erosion of all liberties having been approved by Congress, unless strictly authorized by Congress to do otherwise. The bill would discourage the “PAC MAN” method of infringements.

Just a thought

EPA is killing it. Case in point.
PFI speed shop out of Colorado sold 26 ECM'S (engine control modules) that had been modified (by the company that made them). All PFI did was sell the ECM. They were charged $180,000 for the infraction. If you have a diesel truck and add a bullydog chip to enhance fuel mileage, you are guilty of modifying a ECM and can be charged.
There are many cases out there right now.
It's only the beginning.
Zim

 

[smritte]

How does one enjoy the outdoors if the outdoors is restricted

Virtual Reality?
All the fun and no bugs.

 

[Tundracamper]

There’s off-roading in NJ? Who’d a thought that!

 

[MOAK]

Sadly, many are not good ambassadors of the outdoors. Leave no trace (lack of it) is present in every outing I do. Trash, getting off established trails, toilet paper. If everyone in this group committed to bringing out one more bag of trash then you took in, man what a difference.

I agree 100%. Interestingly enough though, the remote locations we get into and out of we rarely see any trash. Except one time as we meandered down a canyon heading south out of Joshua Tree we came upon an area that was completely trashed by target shooters. I about threw up. My wife was enraged. We passed by a small group, ignored them and continued on. One of the most difficult things we as a group are faced with is our inability to delineate ourselves from the low life weekend warriors. There is no help from corporations either as the TV commercials about Jeeps conquering nature, or the Bronco blazing new trails are extraordinarily damaging to us, the purveyors of Tread Lightly & Leave No Trace ethics, and to our collective reputation.

 

[MOAK]

There’s off-roading in NJ? Who’d a thought that!

Not really, I visited the Pine Barrens 20 years ago and, well, it’s New Jersey, what can I say? ( LOL ) even back then I witnessed more than a few bozos with way overbuilt rigs tearing it up. After four or five bozo encounters, we packed it in and headed home.

 

[grubworm]

There’s off-roading in NJ?

really? which exit?

 

[9Mike2]

Equivalent found:
View attachment 214183

The beginning of the END.

 

[North American Sojourner]

LOL! I would like to believe there was a “beginning”, but maybe there was no such thing. NJ will retain it’s reputation as a “police state”. Why? Your guess is as good as mine.

Because they like that Powah. LOL
This is a prime reason I'm in the midwest. I grew up on the east coast (DC) and folks are losing ground in the "fun" arena.
Zim

 

[Tundracamper]

Because they like that Powah. LOL
This is a prime reason I'm in the midwest. I grew up on the east coast (DC) and folks are losing ground in the "fun" arena.
Zim

I just purchased a regional map for trip planning to Utah. I cannot believe the two long columns of rules and regulations in small font. Resistance is futile, you must assimilate!

 

[Tundracamper]

Equivalent found:
View attachment 214183

What’s the context? Am I supposed to look up the restriction or am I supposed to draw the conclusion this really means “no vehicles?” Seems a gate would be more effective if that’s the case.

 

[North American Sojourner]

I just purchased a regional map for trip planning to Utah. I cannot believe the two long columns of rules and regulations in small font. Resistance is futile, you must assimilate!

I'll have to look at that. Is it a state map or a federal map. The Feds are falling apart with this sudden change of course we're going thru. You have to admit it's a challenge.
LOL
Zim

 

[Tundracamper]

I'll have to look at that. Is it a state map or a federal map. The Feds are falling apart with this sudden change of course we're going thru. You have to admit it's a challenge.
LOL
Zim

It’s a Nat Geo map that has a rules section.