If you can't leave it better than you found it, just don't go.

[MidOH]

[Make rules for other people. Good plan.]

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

You sound like someone that thinks TierV cleaned up our cars.

Sounds like a canadian problem. We're already doing it down here. Pack out our aluminum and plastic for recycling. I can name hundreds of American companies making clean products.

Quit buying cheap junk that won't last the rest of our lifes.

I've been saying that since after WW2 when the Japanese dumped all the junk on us. I cant say I haven't bought junk because I have a budget to consider, but I'm choosey about the junk I buy ..LOL

 

[JoelIII]

I'll have to agree with CR-Venturer--- pack it in , pack it out. Bury your S - - - if it stinks and it all does. I'm not very tolerant !
I live 25 miles from town. Once a month clean up crews work both sides of the highway. When they are finished there is a large black yard type bag filled with mostly beer or coke cans along both sides of the road about every 50 yards apart for miles, with tons of trash thrown from cars by idiot passengers. These same patrons of the camp sites are of the same mentality as the ones going down the road in their cars. I cant blame another states population for trashing my state, I think it's about the same everywhere. People are pigs because they were not taught to be otherwise. To bad its not mandatory that all people (Men and women) have to spend 2 years after high school in the service of our country, It would be a different and better USA !! Lastly for those of us who complain about trash in the USA, try living in Mexico or any S. American country, or anywhere in the near or far east. Squalor is rampant and it comes from ignorance and poverty. (IMO)Lanlubber

Unfortunately I'll have to disagree with your comment of people serving 2 years of service being mandatory. There was a time I thought that would instill discipline where people's parents failed to do so, and create an overall better America. Now days I believe that, as a whole, it wouldn't change much of anything. The same self entitled, self centered folks you encounter in your day to day activities are in the service as well, and though I won't air out everyones dirty laundry because I still feel proud of what I do... this isn't the military that I joined 13 years ago!

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Unfortunately I'll have to disagree with your comment of people serving 2 years of service being mandatory. There was a time I thought that would instill discipline where people's parents failed to do so, and create an overall better America. Now days I believe that, as a whole, it wouldn't change much of anything. The same self entitled, self centered folks you encounter in your day to day activities are in the service as well, and though I won't air out everyone's dirty laundry because I still feel proud of what I do... this isn't the military that I joined 13 years ago!

I'm sorry tp hear that. I know it made a man out of me and my enlistment buddy. My son was (is) a marine and it changed his course of life dramatically. He was in from 1987 to 1991. We had some bummy people in my day but the military dug it out of them and straightened them out got rid of them very disgracefully. So by what your saying the service is not able to take a large percentage of rotten eggs and turn them around in todays Military ? Maybe it worked so well for me is because the service became my family and I liked the disciplined requirements and the earned rank privileges allowed good behavior. Is there no incentive for good behavior in the ranks anymore ?

 

[CR-Venturer]

[Make rules for other people. Good plan.]

Are you suggesting that anyone here is implying the rules don't apply to them as much as to everyone else? Not really sure what you're getting at.

 

[Anak]

You can do all of that yourself, right now. Buy hardy products, keep them as long as possible, then recycle them. Try to quit being a consumer.

You can't do that with legislation. You can't force that on others. You can only lead by example. "

^^^^This!

The newest vehicle I own is an '02 Suburban. My daily driver is a '96 Jeep Cherokee. I have no desire to own any vehicle any newer than those I now have. Largely because I don't believe the new vehicles are built to last. I don't have a problem with working on the modern vehicles, but I see supply problems with all these specialized electronics going into them. I have heard of vehicles being "totalled" on account of the cost for just the navigation/electronics nonsense in the dash. I want nothing to do with that world, and it is well within the scope of my ability to completely avoid it.

I don't like buying things repeatedly. I want to buy something once and then never worry about it again. The grocery store is my biggest challenge. Keeping three Varmints fed means we have to revisit that one at least twice a week (although I have toyed with a second refrigerator--that could knock the frequency down). Besides groceries, most everything else I buy has durability as its first priority and serviceability second. And serviceability means "by me", not handing it off to someone else.

 

[JoelIII]

I'm sorry tp hear that. I know it made a man out of me and my enlistment buddy. My son was (is) a marine and it changed his course of life dramatically. He was in from 1987 to 1991. We had some bummy people in my day but the military dug it out of them and straightened them out got rid of them very disgracefully. So by what your saying the service is not able to take a large percentage of rotten eggs and turn them around in todays Military ? Maybe it worked so well for me is because the service became my family and I liked the disciplined requirements and the earned rank privileges allowed good behavior. Is there no incentive for good behavior in the ranks anymore ?

Well honestly, its hard to put your finger on the root cause. There are still a lot of young, motivated, patriotic folks that join, but unfortunately it seems that a lot of them join just for the benefits and use service as a stepping stone for a better future. Now, I won't bash anyone who joins the military for the benefits, but I think the mentality is becoming very different. For example, when you mentioned the service became your family, I don't think a lot of the young folks ever truly make that connection with their peers. A lot of them see this as just another job to get where they need to be. Again, hard to find one sole cause of this shift but it is ever present and we attend meetings, briefs and seminars just for learning how to communicate with the "newer" generation which seems unfortunate but, as they say... it is what it is.

 

[Dilldog]

wow.... you cannot do it without regulation. NO one will build a clean product. There is NO clean choice until you regulate it.

Regulation is not a bad word. Regulation levels the playing field. There are plenty of corporations so inept they cannot compete on a level field. THEY are the ones driving deregulation. I've managed a few companys who did real well in a regulated environment. We looked at the rules and did it better. AND WE WERE PROUD of that accomplishment...

A perfect example of regulation making things better is in the early days of trucking. In the 70s it was a big deal to have 250horse power and get 5 miles to the gallon and be able to run at 60-70K lbs. Well the EPA said no, you can do better. All of a sudden engines were making 350hp, then 425hp, then 550, and now 625, all while lasting longer, getting better fuel millage, and being able to run at 105K lbs.
So realistic (that however is the key, and it takes compromise from everyone) regulation does often times end up being quite a benefit. Sometimes it does take government intervention to drive innovation.

 

[MidOH]

Did you seriously give the epa credit for truck engine technology?

Please use [brackets] to note sarcasm.

 

[grubworm]

[we need more and bigger government...its the only way]

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

^^^^This!

The newest vehicle I own is an '02 Suburban. My daily driver is a '96 Jeep Cherokee. I have no desire to own any vehicle any newer than those I now have. Largely because I don't believe the new vehicles are built to last. I don't have a problem with working on the modern vehicles, but I see supply problems with all these specialized electronics going into them. I have heard of vehicles being "totalled" on account of the cost for just the navigation/electronics nonsense in the dash. I want nothing to do with that world, and it is well within the scope of my ability to completely avoid it.

I don't like buying things repeatedly. I want to buy something once and then never worry about it again. The grocery store is my biggest challenge. Keeping three Varmints fed means we have to revisit that one at least twice a week (although I have toyed with a second refrigerator--that could knock the frequency down). Besides groceries, most everything else I buy has durability as its first priority and serviceability second. And serviceability means "by me", not handing it off to someone else.

Anak, I agree with you, I only wish all of America did. You realize of course your older vehicle will need parts sooner or later. Are you fully aware that many of those parts will not be made available to you because of the OBAMA buy back program that took all to many vehicles off the market for parts. The reason being that the dealers were not allowed to resale the trade in's on that program and the GOVERNMENT OF OBAMA required the cars to be demolished and scrapped. It took out about 20 years of car models all within your cars age group.

So for other people reading this thread, It is not always the manufacturing people who screw things up, it is the people who elect stupid government officials that are supposed to protect the consumer (ME). What is good for you may be bad for me, so be careful of what you ask for, you may get it. For those of you who live in California, I can only say I hope there is never a national emergency. Your state is doomed for the lack of resources that have been denied to you all in the name of misguided science fed to you by your leadership and backed by all the liberal politics embedded into your system. I feel for you, sorry.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

[we need more and bigger government...its the only way]

Careful Grubworm, I know you joke, but you live in a state that people may take you serious and give everyone more government than they want. I still cringe when I hear the word Katrina. It immediately reminds me of the what happened when the government brought in the national guard units that actually followed there orders to compensate private citizens firearms, even old ladies who armed themselves to protect themselves from all the rampant crime. It was a disgraceful move on the part of a government who is supposed to protect our constitutional right first above all. As far as I am concerned the government should have abandoned the city of New Orleans and kept it flooded rather than spend or waste all that money to repair and protect a city with no worth in my minds view.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

A perfect example of regulation making things better is in the early days of trucking. In the 70s it was a big deal to have 250horse power and get 5 miles to the gallon and be able to run at 60-70K lbs. Well the EPA said no, you can do better. All of a sudden engines were making 350hp, then 425hp, then 550, and now 625, all while lasting longer, getting better fuel millage, and being able to run at 105K lbs.
So realistic (that however is the key, and it takes compromise from everyone) regulation does often times end up being quite a benefit. Sometimes it does take government intervention to drive innovation.

I see your point, it is just like WAR. We always seem to make our most technological advances when we are at war with someone. When the war ends everything goes down the drain because the government money (ours) disappears. So yes because the EPA mandated better gas mileage it spurred the industry to find other ways to increase horsepower, hence computers and modular engine designs that last a lot longer. In essence I can see MidOH point of view. He thinks you want more regulation and maybe you do. I don't want more regulation and would be tickled pink if Trump can manage to eliminate a bunch more than he has already. We are all never going to agree with what should be done but we will all keep fighting to maintain the form of life in which we want to live even if it kills us. I don't want to lose anymore of my constitutional rights than I have already in the past 60 years. I want change that eliminates the federal government from being in our face all the time . It is not there job to control our lives. Like it or not we must learn how to manage our own lives. We all have a right to our opinion and I thank God we can still express it because some people do not want to hear our opinion and try to regulate it out of there lives.

 

[Dilldog]

I see your point, it is just like WAR. We always seem to make our most technological advances when we are at war with someone. When the war ends everything goes down the drain because the government money (ours) disappears. So yes because the EPA mandated better gas mileage it spurred the industry to find other ways to increase horsepower, hence computers and modular engine designs that last a lot longer. In essence I can see MidOH point of view. He thinks you want more regulation and maybe you do. I don't want more regulation and would be tickled pink if Trump can manage to eliminate a bunch more than he has already. We are all never going to agree with what should be done but we will all keep fighting to maintain the form of life in which we want to live even if it kills us. I don't want to lose anymore of my constitutional rights than I have already in the past 60 years. I want change that eliminates the federal government from being in our face all the time . It is not there job to control our lives. Like it or not we must learn how to manage our own lives. We all have a right to our opinion and I thank God we can still express it because some people do not want to hear our opinion and try to regulate it out of there lives.

Im not necessarily advocating more regulation. I think that the regulation we have needs to be smarter. We have lot of regulation that doesnt make sense, but also a lot of de-regulation that doesnt make sense either. We need a cultural shift away from selfishness, and back to compromise for the betterment of the country.
And just a comment on my previous comment. The increased EPA regulations forced engine makers to produce more efficient burning engines, which cleaned up tail pipe (or smoke stack) emissions, and because more of the fuel being injected was being burned, horse power increased. We have seen essentially the same thing in modern gas engines too. The regulations became strict enough that simply bolting on components to existing engines wouldnt hack it. So we got completely new engines, which because more engineering was put into how the fuel and combustion is managed means the engine itself is more simple, lasts longer, and typically is able to produce more power.

 

[Anak]

Anak, I agree with you, I only wish all of America did. You realize of course your older vehicle will need parts sooner or later. Are you fully aware that many of those parts will not be made available to you because of the OBAMA buy back program that took all to many vehicles off the market for parts. The reason being that the dealers were not allowed to resale the trade in's on that program and the GOVERNMENT OF OBAMA required the cars to be demolished and scrapped. It took out about 20 years of car models all within your cars age group.

Oh yes. I am very of aware of that beautiful piece of work and its consequences. I know of at least one Cherokee that has an "I Survived Cash for Clunkers" windshield banner.

I have made it a point to accumulate spare parts for my vehicles, all the way down to all the screws and nuts that I encounter in the process of removing spare parts in the junkyard. Little pieces get bagged and labelled so I can identify just which part of the vehicle they pertain to. And if required, there are many instances wherein I can repair or make my own parts. I had an issue a few years back where one of the window guide rollers broke in my Cummins pickup. I found that they do not sell just the roller. I was expected to buy a complete new window actuator with the motor and the arms just to replace what was at most a five cent part when manufactured. Forget that. I got a piece of Delrin, ground a cutter to match the ball socket it needed to fit on and turned my own guide roller. That roller has been working just fine for 40K miles or so. As have the old arms and old motor. This "recycle" mantra is bunk. Keep on truckin' and don't bother with the new, disposable junk that is only made with the intent to go to the landfill within just a few years.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Im not necessarily advocating more regulation. I think that the regulation we have needs to be smarter. We have lot of regulation that doesnt make sense, but also a lot of de-regulation that doesnt make sense either. We need a cultural shift away from selfishness, and back to compromise for the betterment of the country.
And just a comment on my previous comment. The increased EPA regulations forced engine makers to produce more efficient burning engines, which cleaned up tail pipe (or smoke stack) emissions, and because more of the fuel being injected was being burned, horse power increased. We have seen essentially the same thing in modern gas engines too. The regulations became strict enough that simply bolting on components to existing engines wouldnt hack it. So we got completely new engines, which because more engineering was put into how the fuel and combustion is managed means the engine itself is more simple, lasts longer, and typically is able to produce more power.

I hate to tell you this but what you say here is exactly what I myself said to you in the statement above. Modular engines and computers combined to be more efficient yet a bonus of higher horsepower, were developed after EPA put mandates on the auto industry. Older style engines have benefited from the computer age on horsepower but fail the emission test because the modular design is needed to improve emissions. Combine all that with turbo technology and horsepower goes through the roof while emissions stay low. So WE are in total agreement about the EPA causing the auto industry to think out of the tank and come up with something better, although EPA was only interested in lowering emissions, we gained as consumers not by the EPA but what the EPA caused the auto industry to do about the new standards on emission. In other word a bad thing turned out good to the demise of EPA .

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Oh yes. I am very of aware of that beautiful piece of work and its consequences. I know of at least one Cherokee that has an "I Survived Cash for Clunkers" windshield banner.

I have made it a point to accumulate spare parts for my vehicles, all the way down to all the screws and nuts that I encounter in the process of removing spare parts in the junkyard. Little pieces get bagged and labelled so I can identify just which part of the vehicle they pertain to. And if required, there are many instances wherein I can repair or make my own parts. I had an issue a few years back where one of the window guide rollers broke in my Cummins pickup. I found that they do not sell just the roller. I was expected to buy a complete new window actuator with the motor and the arms just to replace what was at most a five cent part when manufactured. Forget that. I got a piece of Delrin, ground a cutter to match the ball socket it needed to fit on and turned my own guide roller. That roller has been working just fine for 40K miles or so. As have the old arms and old motor. This "recycle" mantra is bunk. Keep on truckin' and don't bother with the new, disposable junk that is only made with the intent to go to the landfill within just a few years.

You are one in ten million you know. You are lucky to have good mechanical abilities to be able to do what you do.
The last new car I bought was a Ford Thunderbird in 1985. I bought it for my wife while I drove a 1967 Ford Bronco. We kept the Thunderbird until we gave it to my oldest son in 2002. I replace it with a 1984 Lincoln town car that I drove as a road car until I was involved in a T bone crash that totaled it four years ago. Currently I drive three different cars for three different reasons. My LRD2 is a 2000 model I just bought in Feb. this year. It has the same window roller problems your telling me about on your jeep. I don't quite understand how you made your rollers and I would like to understand the process. My son said they could be made by anyone with a 3 D computer printer for almost nothing and so we are looking to find that person with one. In the mean time I was able to purchase a used roller mechanism from a wrecking yard in Denver. They sent me the whole shebang for $30. A new one would cost in excess of $160 through a land rover outlet for parts. I don't know why they wear so quickly since my LRD only has 101,000 miles and all four windows have the same problem (designed obsolescence) poor engineering.!!

 

[Anak]

I made mine on an old Logan lathe. To 3D print one would be simpler. The only issue is choosing a filament that has the right properties. What I have seen of 3D printed products strikes me as brittle, but there may well be other materials which are appropriate for the application.

I have had some stuff custom 3D printed for my Jeep. I will have to look for the contact information for the guy who did it. He may be able to help you.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I made mine on an old Logan lathe. To 3D print one would be simpler. The only issue is choosing a filament that has the right properties. What I have seen of 3D printed products strikes me as brittle, but there may well be other materials which are appropriate for the application.

I have had some stuff custom 3D printed for my Jeep. I will have to look for the contact information for the guy who did it. He may be able to help you.

I would be truly grateful for any info. I wonder how they determine the original shape and size since all I have is a worn out disk with a hole in it. Maybe when I get to another window one will be good enough to copy on a computer. My son who lives with me can do the cad work, he is more than capable. At least for now I will have one window working this week, the drivers window. Never realized how much you need windows to go up and down and strangely enough I hardly ever roll down a window except at the bank drive in. In the boon docks it is necessary to be able to look out to see your wheels and where they are in relation to an object as you probably know.
Do you ever converse with the Cherokee jeep guy up in Utah that makes those good video's on utube. I'd like to trail with him sometime.

 

[Anak]

I would be truly grateful for any info. I wonder how they determine the original shape and size since all I have is a worn out disk with a hole in it. Maybe when I get to another window one will be good enough to copy on a computer. My son who lives with me can do the cad work, he is more than capable. At least for now I will have one window working this week, the drivers window. Never realized how much you need windows to go up and down and strangely enough I hardly ever roll down a window except at the bank drive in. In the boon docks it is necessary to be able to look out to see your wheels and where they are in relation to an object as you probably know.
Do you ever converse with the Cherokee jeep guy up in Utah that makes those good video's on utube. I'd like to trail with him sometime.

Here is the guy who did the custom 3D printing I needed: Hobbykeep

There is a "contact me" button on that page. Talk to him about what you have as a worn out part and what he needs in order to make a replacement. I expect he will need the measurement of the ball socket on the window arms and the measurement of the channel on the window itself (width and height of channel). The quality of the finished product will depend on the quality of your measurements. If you don't own calipers/micrometers you might want to look into at least borrowing some for the sake of this. I expect this part to need some flexibility/stretch in order to fit over the ball on the arms. You will need to talk to him about material options. I used Delrin when I made mine, but I have no idea if Delrin can be 3D printed, or if it can if it retains its elasticity.

3D printing certainly does open up a world of possibilities when it comes to needing replacement parts. Or to adding new functionality to old designs.