How Overlanders are Ruining Overlanding

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

Probably many have already followed the video and the reason behind it. Certainly, there are many who have been confronted with exactly such situations several times.

I think Kasper sums it up well. Even if it doesn't feel right at first to address such misconduct (it could lead to an unpleasant situation), it is important to raise awareness.

Because if the person who simply doesn't follow the rules and principles doesn't know it, it's our job to educate them.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

But how can this be prevented or minimised in the future? The idea of an overlanding certificate often comes up (similar concepts already exist when it comes to hunting, fishing, etc.).

But isn't it important above all that those who damage the reputation of all are held accountable? Couldn't law enforcement use social media posts to impose massive penalties, including deportation or entry bans, after the fact?

I like to draw attention here to the enormously high and tigerish penalties imposed by the Swiss, where speeding is punished so severely that no one actually speeds any more.

Penalties that act as a deterrent in order to preserve a greater common good are, in my opinion, absolutely legitimate.

 

[Mr_Mnml_Engnr]

I think that the real challenge for policing overlander (or those who self-identify as overlanders) for destructive behavior is enforcement. At the individual level, all someone would be able to do without risking an violent reaction is raising awareness. If someone is ignorant enough, they will just keep ruining the land anyways, and at least here in the US, land authorities aren't on-site to penalize people.
To your second point about using video evidence as a basis for enforcement, I think many governments are wrestling with the ethics and legalities of that, but again, a person is risking personal violence by openly recording behavior that the perpetrator knows will lead to a fine or ban.

At the end of the day, that's why I am very selective about who I travel with, and then I do my best to leave an area better than how I found it. I pick up trash where I see it, even if it isn't mine or my group's.

 

[smritte]

Your scope is way too narrow.
Take the term "Overlanding" out. Instead replace it with anything that became a fad. For my area its been Sand cars, Boats, Jet ski's, Desert trucks, ATV's even backpacking (just to name some). Vehicle wise the Rubicon started it here in early 2000. People driving places their stock vehicles couldn't reach. Now I would see trash in places a normal 4wd couldn't drive. Rock Crawl fad brought rock buggies tearing up areas their not suppose to go. Side by sides terrorize the local desert towns (not street legal here) with big groups of them tearing up streets.

Overlanding here meant people driving out into the wilderness being idiots. I've seen people camp inside the fence of a monument then try to chase us away because they found it first? It was a monument, they opened the fence that said no parking and went in anyway. I will admit, the first one that came to mind had every expensive bolt on you could buy. I guess that means its OK.

Over the decades I watched new laws get passed due to the idiots. The idiots don't care. As soon as its not fun their off to the next fad.
I feel your pain.

 

[MiamiC70]

Let’s start by arresting, fining and incarcerating ”Influencers“ into oblivion.

 

[KD7WCD]

I guess I am spoiled out here in the Western United States. There are lots of public lands that are open to the public. Buy even in the wild wild west there are rules, best practices, and etiquette.

Heavy-handed regulations tend to punish and frustrate the people who try to do the right things. Self-regulating is really about pure pressure and can be effective as long as the majority of people involved by into it. If not it comes off as a few elitist giving everyone else a hard time.

The guys in the video with the big bad "Overlander" rigs are no different than the guy with the loud motorcycle, big boat speeding through the no wake zone and so one. They should be held accountable for there bad deads.

My point is that every community has those guys. It is the price we pay for diversity and creativity

I agree that education on standards and best practices is the best approach. But takes all of us to pitch in. Lead by example and teach with a smile.

 

[Kevin108]

The guy in the video is not wrong that failing to stay on trail is a problem and that these drivers are causing unnecessary damage to nature, but appointing himself trail police and using social media to send his followers to attack other accounts rubs me the wrong way. I think it's fine to let someone know when they've made a mistake in etiquette, but threatening them with legal repercussions is beyond the scope of the individual.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

Your scope is way too narrow.
Take the term "Overlanding" out. Instead replace it with anything that became a fad. For my area its been Sand cars, Boats, Jet ski's, Desert trucks, ATV's even backpacking (just to name some). Vehicle wise the Rubicon started it here in early 2000. People driving places their stock vehicles couldn't reach. Now I would see trash in places a normal 4wd couldn't drive. Rock Crawl fad brought rock buggies tearing up areas their not suppose to go. Side by sides terrorize the local desert towns (not street legal here) with big groups of them tearing up streets.

Overlanding here meant people driving out into the wilderness being idiots. I've seen people camp inside the fence of a monument then try to chase us away because they found it first? It was a monument, they opened the fence that said no parking and went in anyway. I will admit, the first one that came to mind had every expensive bolt on you could buy. I guess that means its OK.

Over the decades I watched new laws get passed due to the idiots. The idiots don't care. As soon as its not fun their off to the next fad.
I feel your pain.

So sad. Thanks for sharing your point of view.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

Let’s start by arresting, fining and incarcerating ”Influencers“ into oblivion.

Could be a good first step just to show that it ain’t the right path to follow. Companies should stop supporting those blokes online.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

I guess I am spoiled out here in the Western United States. There are lots of public lands that are open to the public. Buy even in the wild wild west there are rules, best practices, and etiquette.

Heavy-handed regulations tend to punish and frustrate the people who try to do the right things. Self-regulating is really about pure pressure and can be effective as long as the majority of people involved by into it. If not it comes off as a few elitist giving everyone else a hard time.

The guys in the video with the big bad "Overlander" rigs are no different than the guy with the loud motorcycle, big boat speeding through the no wake zone and so one. They should be held accountable for there bad deads.

My point is that every community has those guys. It is the price we pay for diversity and creativity

I agree that education on standards and best practices is the best approach. But takes all of us to pitch in. Lead by example and teach with a smile.

Very well said. I guess that’s the only chance we have.

 

[XC70_OVERLANDER]

The guy in the video is not wrong that failing to stay on trail is a problem and that these drivers are causing unnecessary damage to nature, but appointing himself trail police and using social media to send his followers to attack other accounts rubs me the wrong way. I think it's fine to let someone know when they've made a mistake in etiquette, but threatening them with legal repercussions is beyond the scope of the individual.

As I understood Kasper, he was often at the point of saying nothing. I think it is a good way to set examples and raise awareness.

Of course it is a bit like a witch hunt and the two vehicles have to be used as prime examples, but nevertheless - and I firmly believe this - it makes the issue public and makes people think about it and ask themselves "who do I want to be"? "How well do I know the countries I travel to"?

 

[bgenlvtex]

If his goal is legitimately raising awareness and keeping trails open, bringing attention to violations publicly, and threatening to invoke the wrath of a bureaucracy if he doesn't get the apology he demands is fraught with failure.
"We're going to shut these trails if you don't act right"

"I saw big trucks in the river"

"Trail closed"

"Look what the big trucks did!"

 

[MiamiC70]

Could be a good first step just to show that it ain’t the right path to follow. Companies should stop supporting those blokes online.

It’s company support and likes that drives these idiots. They’ll do anything except get a real job.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I'm sorry...overlanding certificate? Overlanding CERTIFICATE?!?

Only in Germany would they think of such a thing.

And Massachusetts...
To drive and camp on the Cap Cod National Seashore, you have to have your vehicle inspected beyond that of the normal annual inspection. Among other things, they have to make sure you have 4 wheel drive and that you have a (wooden) platform wide enough that your Jack wont sink into the sand should you need it.
.there are rules and etiquette also

 

[KD7WCD]

I'm sorry...overlanding certificate? Overlanding CERTIFICATE?!?

Only in Germany would they think of such a thing.

And Massachusetts...
To drive and camp on the Cap Cod National Seashore, you have to have your vehicle inspected beyond that of the normal annual inspection. Among other things, they have to make sure you have 4 wheel drive and that you have a (wooden) platform wide enough that your Jack wont sink into the sand should you need it.
.there are rules and etiquette also

I don't think it is fair to say only in Germany.

California requires you to take an online class to get your campfire permit.

If you give the bureaucracy a chance, they will regulate the fun out of everything. Self-regulating is the best if we can be consistent about it.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I don't think it is fair to say only in Germany.

California requires you to take an online class to get your campfire permit.

If you give the bureaucracy a chance, they will regulate the fun out of everything. Self-regulating is the best if we can be consistent about it.

Campfire permit in the land of wildfires I can understand. Earthquakes, landslides and I hear you guys even get hurricanes now

 

[DintDobbs]

I have been confronted by a police officer and told to leave from a place I paid to get access to, for doing the thing I paid to be able to do, and had my $70 season pass confiscated after one hour in my possession.

The "stop having fun" guys already won this war a long time ago. One ignorant cop who doesn't know the rules, who gets called when the Forest Service (for example) is the one who should have been called, can cause enough trouble to keep one legitimate user away for life.

You think I'm ever going to go back to a place where I got a ticket for doing what I paid to be able to do? Not this guy.

But, who is it that goes and tears these places up? People who lack common sense and respect, who don't read rules or pay for passes.

 

[KD7WCD]

I don't think it is fair to say only in Germany.

California requires you to take an online class to get your campfire permit.

If you give the bureaucracy a chance, they will regulate the fun out of everything. Self-regulating is the best if we can be consistent about it.

Campfire permit in the land of wildfires I can understand. Earthquakes, landslides and I hear you guys even get hurricanes now

Oh no. I'm not in California. I'm in Arizona. We just bake here.

 

[grubworm]

looks like this saguaro has had enough of the BS....