How do the first gen Xterras/Frontiers compare to 1G Tacomas/3G 4runners?

[Arkansas_SR5]

Recently, I regrettably passed up on a 2000 Xterra for $2400 with a 5 speed and 4x4 in favor of a much pricier 80 series Land Cruiser. The Cruiser ended up being too big and heavy for my tastes, and I ended up trading it for a 1996 Tacoma SR5 and some cash.

In any case, I'm wondering now why the 1st gen Tacomas and the 3rd gen 4runners demand so much more money on the used market compared to the Xterras and Frontiers. For instance, the VG33s are stronger internally and should in theory have the same or better reliability compared to a 5VZ. Ditto with the KA24 compared to the RZ engines. The drivelines also seem to be tougher in the Nissans; you don't hear about as many blow diffs and CVs in Xterras and Frontiers, and the rear diffs also are thought of as stronger than the Toyota 8".

Sure they have their issues, but many of those are shared with their Toyota counterparts: knock sensors, leaks, the occasional head gasket.

So all in all, are the early Xterras and Frontiers under-appreciated gems? How do they compare to the contemporary Toyotas in terms of reliability, capability, and durability?

 

[shrdt]

I have a 2018 Frontier Pro 4x4 for our rig and I have no complaints.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

I have a 2018 Frontier Pro 4x4 for our rig and I have no complaints.

Yea, those seem good too. I’d much rather have one of those than a problematic 3.5 Tacoma. I don’t understand why Toyota put a FWD sedan engine in a truck..

 

[smritte]

As long as the vehicle you choose works well for what you do, it really doesn't matter which. I will always pick the Toyota. This is mostly due to the way diffrent parts are manufactured. Most people drive more street then dirt. Because of that, you dont see anything until higher milage. The problem with either is how did the previous owner take care of it. Its when you tear both vehicles down to rebuild things is where you really see the differences.
This should turn out to be a fun thread.

I don’t understand why Toyota put a FWD sedan engine in a truck..

The direct answer to your question gets down to politics within Toyota.
The slightly longer answer is, my 3.5 liter "sedan" engine out pulls the rebuilt 4.5 liter truck engine in my cruiser as well as better milage, I'm happy with it on road and off. This is due to building better commuter vehicles for the world. I do wish they put the outdated 4runner engine in instead for the better torque curve. The real issue with the 3.5 is the computer mapping. A good tune really brings them alive.

I would shy away from anything with variable valve timing if you plan on driving it long enough to have to rebuild it.

 

[smritte]

80 series Land Cruiser. The Cruiser ended up being too big and heavy for my tastes

Would you believe my 19 Tacoma is actually bigger then my 96 FJ80. You wouldn't know until you put them side by side. Parts are getting scarce also. Fortunately, mine is completely rebuilt except for three more weatherstrips and paint.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

As long as the vehicle you choose works well for what you do, it really doesn't matter which. I will always pick the Toyota. This is mostly due to the way diffrent parts are manufactured. Most people drive more street then dirt. Because of that, you dont see anything until higher milage. The problem with either is how did the previous owner take care of it. Its when you tear both vehicles down to rebuild things is where you really see the differences.
This should turn out to be a fun thread.



The direct answer to your question gets down to politics within Toyota.
The slightly longer answer is, my 3.5 liter "sedan" engine out pulls the rebuilt 4.5 liter truck engine in my cruiser as well as better milage, I'm happy with it on road and off. This is due to building better commuter vehicles for the world. I do wish they put the outdated 4runner engine in instead for the better torque curve. The real issue with the 3.5 is the computer mapping. A good tune really brings them alive.

I would shy away from anything with variable valve timing if you plan on driving it long enough to have to rebuild it.

Are you saying Toyota has better QC practices when it comes to the parts they use? My current Tacoma seems fairly well cared for; at least most of the big-ticket items have been done (ball joints, etc.) and the engine has excellent compression.

There've been accounts of piling issues in the head of the 2GR-FKS in the 3G Taco due to its FWD-design. I'm not saying they're common, but they can happen.

2GR-FKS Engine Problem/Failure

This has been a heated debate on here and I wanted to see some statistics on some of these failures. I will update the member list in the original...

www.tacomaworld.com

Would you believe my 19 Tacoma is actually bigger then my 96 FJ80. You wouldn't know until you put them side by side. Parts are getting scarce also. Fortunately, mine is completely rebuilt except for three more weatherstrips and paint.

To your point, IMO the Tacoma got too big and heavy for its own good after the 1st gen. The 3rd gen is a much nicer truck than a 1st gen, but it's basically the same size as a first gen Tundra.

 

[tjZ06]

It seems like a *nice* 2nd Gen Xterra is more inline price-wise with a *decent* 3rd Gen 4Runner, at least around here. I think the 2G X is still a good, relatively compact size. For fun with numbers, a 2nd Gen X is ~179" long, ~73" wide, and ~75" tall (all of which are only 1-3" more than a 1st Gen X) and ~4,400lbs for a fully-loaded Pro-4X A 3rd Gen 4Runner is ~178", ~71", ~71" and a good bit lighter at around 4klbs for a fully loaded unit. The 2nd Gen gets you a LOT vs. a 1st Gen when it comes to Frontier/Xterra. A lot more power (265hp vs. 180hp... 210hp if you find the ultra-rare Supercharged 1st Gen), disc brakes in the back, a locker in Pro-4Xs (in the 1st gen the best you could get was a LSD), etc. etc. I'm actually not a Nissan expert by any means, so I'm sure others can correct me and/or add more differences. I'm not sure what your budget is, but around here nice 3rd Gen 'runners are in the teens at least, I paid $12k for a pretty clean, fully loaded '12 Pro-4X with ~142k mi (it just went over 150k today... so far so good).

-TJ

 

[reaver]

Recently, I regrettably passed up on a 2000 Xterra for $2400 with a 5 speed and 4x4 in favor of a much pricier 80 series Land Cruiser. The Cruiser ended up being too big and heavy for my tastes, and I ended up trading it for a 1996 Tacoma SR5 and some cash.

In any case, I'm wondering now why the 1st gen Tacomas and the 3rd gen 4runners demand so much more money on the used market compared to the Xterras and Frontiers. For instance, the VG33s are stronger internally and should in theory have the same or better reliability compared to a 5VZ. Ditto with the KA24 compared to the RZ engines. The drivelines also seem to be tougher in the Nissans; you don't hear about as many blow diffs and CVs in Xterras and Frontiers, and the rear diffs also are thought of as stronger than the Toyota 8".

Sure they have their issues, but many of those are shared with their Toyota counterparts: knock sensors, leaks, the occasional head gasket.

So all in all, are the early Xterras and Frontiers under-appreciated gems? How do they compare to the contemporary Toyotas in terms of reliability, capability, and durability?

I have both a first Gen X and 2ng Gen frontier.

ALOT of the price difference comes down to the toyota tax and aftermarket support.

As far as reliability goes, honestly, they're equally as reliable. Each generation of vehicles has its quirks and weaknesses.

For example, first Gen Nissans are prone to weak steering linkages. These are easily addressed, with some preventative mods. They are also prone to having leaky valve covers.

2000-2001 had 170hp, with 2002-2004 getting 170hp (210 with the supercharger). They came with two different axle ratios. 4.6 and 4.9 gears. 4.6 gears will get you better gas milage on road, with a slight hit in offroad performance.

You're right in that the drive train in the first Gen is STOUT. the h233b rear end is exceptionally strong. The front diff is also very stout. CVs use a 6 bolt flange for attachment vs the slide in axle shafts of most common light duty vehicles (including the 2nd gens).

While the dimensions of the 1st and 2nd Gen are VERY similar, don't let that fool you. 1st gens are significantly smaller. Not uncomfortable by any means, but there is a notable difference.

When it comes to off road driving, while the 2nd Gen has more power, and a standard locker, I honestly prefer my 2003 Xterra over the 2013 Frontier. I don't need horsepower crawling at 30 miles an hour, and the peak torque of the Vg33e comes at a much lower rpm (2800) vs the Vq40 at 4000 rpm.

Stock curb weight of my 2003 XE is about 3780lbs. I've likely added 1000lbs between gear, fuel, and bodies (maybe more). People give Toyota a hard time about brakes on the Tacoma. If the brakes are that bad, I suspect Toyota has to change how they tune them, as the brakes on my X have ZERO issues stopping a 5000lb vehicle in a hurry.

If towing is a goal, I suspect you may be better off with the 2nd Gen, as the extra power there will make a big difference. I've only towed my 1500lb trailer once so far, and off road, the X towed beautifully. On road, she struggled a bit, especially going up any hills.

If you're interested, my sister has a 2002 she's going to be putting up for sale here shortly.

 

[Salt]

Why does a 4Runner command a higher price than an Xterra? I don't disagree with the technical points made above. I'm now on my second 2nd Gen Xterra. I researched both the 4Runner and the Xterra before I bought my second , bought in April 2022. At this point, if I had to do it again, I'd pick the Xterra again. Some things to think about...

• Until very recently Xterras were a dead-end model. The last 2nd Gen model year was 2015. That may have a lot do with Xterra pricing. The negative psychology of a dead model. On the other hand, maybe there's a little romance for some people: the 1st and 2nd Gens on the road are the last of their kind. And naturally, there's a community of people who love Xterras.
• As a dead-end model, there is not a ton after market parts and accessories. I think there are enough parts and accessories to keep Xterras interesting--but nothing like the after market for 4Runners or Jeeps. I think that substantially affects price too.
• Will 3rd Gen Xterra (2024) give a booster shot to 2nd Gen prices? Could be, if the 2nd Gen after-market parts and accessories expand on the coattails of the 3rd Gen after market.
• Xterra's highway fuel efficiency seems a little better than the 4Runner. And I do a lot more highway driving than city/local/off-road driving.
• 2nd Gen Xterras are unique looking, as a Jeep is unique looking. Unmistakeable.
• Maybe a 4Runner commands a higher price, in part, because you can hose it down on Sunday night so it looks the part of an upscale commuter or soccer-Mom vehicle on Monday morning. Certainly that has value. An Xterra does not look like an upscale anything (and the rebel in me cheers!).

I know people who got into Xterras because, compared to most other 4x4s, Xterras were (and are) affordable. It was just about the money and in the space of a few years they traded up and out. But along the way, many grow to love the Xterra. I don't hear people talk about 4Runners the same way.
Is the Xterra a lost cause?
Maybe we are.
But we're smiling.

 

[slomatt]

I think they compare very favorably, with some plusses and minuses on both sides.

For context, I've driven a friend's 2000 XTerra 5spd through some hard trails (Rubicon, Golden Spike, Black Bear, etc) and on thousands of miles of road trips. And I've owned a 2000 4Runner 5sped for 14 years and have put hundreds of offroad miles on it, in addition to driving it on longer trips. Both trucks have similar lifts (2-3") and tires (32-33"). The 4Runner has a factory rear locker, the XTerra has f/r ARBs and 4:1 gears in the transfer case. Both trucks currently have ~125k miles on them.

Here are some comparisons that come to mind:

3rd gen T4R
+ Factory rear locker available from the factory
+ Better aftermarket support (although it's easier to SAS a XTerra)
+ Retains value better (appreciating asset?)
+ Tighter steering, drives better on the freeway
+ More power, but really 183 vs 170 isn't a big difference
+ Interior feels a bit nicer (IMHO)

1st gen XTerra
+ Availability of lower transfer case gears, a big deal for rock crawling
+ Plastic rear bumper corners, don't feel too bad about bashing them in (which happens)
+ Factory roof rack is probably more versatile
+ Seems more stable side-to-side on the trail, perhaps a wider track?
+ Elevated rear row of seats is kinda neat
+ Relatively inexpensive
- Torsion bar front suspension doesn't seem to flex as well as the coilover setup on the T4R
- Stock side rails are easy to bend backwards into a tire (just take them off)
- Ebrake is a pull handle from the dash and can't easily be used to hold the truck in place when starting uphill (very helpful with a 5spd)
- No factory locker

Both have pretty narrow interiors that feel dated. And both have the radio below the HVAC, which is a pain if you want to put in a newer headunit with a screen since it's mounted down low.

I honestly can't strongly recommend one as better than the other. Both are a lot of fun on the trail and are quite capable.

XTerra on the Rubicon (Walker Hill I think)

XTerra on Slick Rock

T4R on Slick Rock

 

[Murphy Slaw]

So, did Nissan just give up?

I mean, the new Pathfinder is like a minivan.

 

[tjZ06]

...the peak torque of the Vg33e comes at a much lower rpm (2800) vs the Vq40 at 4000 rpm...

I often hear a similar thing when people compare 4.0L I6s and 4.7L V8s in WJs. In the case of WJs I have all the dyno graphs and have done the "write-up" a zillion times, and while it's true the V8 peaks a bit higher, at the same RPM as the I6s torque peak the V8 is making more torque... I'm curious if the same is true for VG33 vs. VQ40? I'm sure I can g00gle it, but I figured you might already know. While the VQ peaks higher, does it make as much (or more) torque as the VG at 2800?

-TJ

 

[reaver]

I often hear a similar thing when people compare 4.0L I6s and 4.7L V8s in WJs. In the case of WJs I have all the dyno graphs and have done the "write-up" a zillion times, and while it's true the V8 peaks a bit higher, at the same RPM as the I6s torque peak the V8 is making more torque... I'm curious if the same is true for VG33 vs. VQ40? I'm sure I can g00gle it, but I figured you might already know. While the VQ peaks higher, does it make as much (or more) torque as the VG at 2800?

-TJ

The answer to that question is no. However, if you look at the curves, the vg33 makes peak torque, then slowly falls off, whereas the vq40 makes peak torque at right around 4000, then falls off very quickly.

VG33E:


VQ40:

 

[AggieOE]

I can't say much about people's behaviors 20 years ago but nowadays, in my area at least, it seems the people who buy newer Nissans and Infinitys base their decision on their budget. Whereas, people who buy Toyota and Lexus base their decision on a genuine desire to buy a Toyota product. In car people's terms, those family members and friends I know who have Toyotas sorted their search by 'Toyota'. Whereas those who have Nissans sorted their search by 'price'.

That being said, the Frontiers and Xterras sure look like solid vehicles.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

So, did Nissan just give up?

I mean, the new Pathfinder is like a minivan.

The new Frontier looks pretty decent. I just wish they offered a manual.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

I can't say much about people's behaviors 20 years ago but nowadays, in my area at least, it seems the people who buy newer Nissans and Infinitys base their decision on their budget. Whereas, people who buy Toyota and Lexus base their decision on a genuine desire to buy a Toyota product. In car people's terms, those family members and friends I know who have Toyotas sorted their search by 'Toyota'. Whereas those who have Nissans sorted their search by 'price'.

Well back in the 90s Nissan was up there with Toyota when it came to overbuilding and overengineering their cars, before the costs caught up with them and they started churning out CVT sh!tboxes in the 2000s. Their trucks seemed to retain their quality throughout this time, however, making them a viable (even superior in some ways) alternative to the Tacoma/4Runner.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

I think they compare very favorably, with some plusses and minuses on both sides.

For context, I've driven a friend's 2000 XTerra 5spd through some hard trails (Rubicon, Golden Spike, Black Bear, etc) and on thousands of miles of road trips. And I've owned a 2000 4Runner 5sped for 14 years and have put hundreds of offroad miles on it, in addition to driving it on longer trips. Both trucks have similar lifts (2-3") and tires (32-33"). The 4Runner has a factory rear locker, the XTerra has f/r ARBs and 4:1 gears in the transfer case. Both trucks currently have ~125k miles on them.

Here are some comparisons that come to mind:

3rd gen T4R
+ Factory rear locker available from the factory
+ Better aftermarket support (although it's easier to SAS a XTerra)
+ Retains value better (appreciating asset?)
+ Tighter steering, drives better on the freeway
+ More power, but really 183 vs 170 isn't a big difference
+ Interior feels a bit nicer (IMHO)

1st gen XTerra
+ Availability of lower transfer case gears, a big deal for rock crawling
+ Plastic rear bumper corners, don't feel too bad about bashing them in (which happens)
+ Factory roof rack is probably more versatile
+ Seems more stable side-to-side on the trail, perhaps a wider track?
+ Elevated rear row of seats is kinda neat
+ Relatively inexpensive
- Torsion bar front suspension doesn't seem to flex as well as the coilover setup on the T4R
- Stock side rails are easy to bend backwards into a tire (just take them off)
- Ebrake is a pull handle from the dash and can't easily be used to hold the truck in place when starting uphill (very helpful with a 5spd)
- No factory locker

Both have pretty narrow interiors that feel dated. And both have the radio below the HVAC, which is a pain if you want to put in a newer headunit with a screen since it's mounted down low.

I honestly can't strongly recommend one as better than the other. Both are a lot of fun on the trail and are quite capable.

XTerra on the Rubicon (Walker Hill I think)

XTerra on Slick Rock

T4R on Slick Rock

Thanks for the write up. Did the Nissan hold up better to this kind of wheeling? I’ve seen that generation of Toyota IFS have a lot of problems on trails like that, especially with a front locker and on tires bigger than 33”.

 

[AggieOE]

Well back in the 90s Nissan was up there with Toyota when it came to overbuilding and overengineering their cars, before the costs caught up with them and they started churning out CVT sh!tboxes in the 2000s. Their trucks seemed to retain their quality throughout this time, however, making them a viable (even superior in some ways) alternative to the Tacoma/4Runner.

This sounds right to me. Nissan of the 80s and 90s made some cool stuff!

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

I have both a first Gen X and 2ng Gen frontier.

ALOT of the price difference comes down to the toyota tax and aftermarket support.

As far as reliability goes, honestly, they're equally as reliable. Each generation of vehicles has its quirks and weaknesses.

For example, first Gen Nissans are prone to weak steering linkages. These are easily addressed, with some preventative mods. They are also prone to having leaky valve covers.

2000-2001 had 170hp, with 2002-2004 getting 170hp (210 with the supercharger). They came with two different axle ratios. 4.6 and 4.9 gears. 4.6 gears will get you better gas milage on road, with a slight hit in offroad performance.

You're right in that the drive train in the first Gen is STOUT. the h233b rear end is exceptionally strong. The front diff is also very stout. CVs use a 6 bolt flange for attachment vs the slide in axle shafts of most common light duty vehicles (including the 2nd gens).

While the dimensions of the 1st and 2nd Gen are VERY similar, don't let that fool you. 1st gens are significantly smaller. Not uncomfortable by any means, but there is a notable difference.

When it comes to off road driving, while the 2nd Gen has more power, and a standard locker, I honestly prefer my 2003 Xterra over the 2013 Frontier. I don't need horsepower crawling at 30 miles an hour, and the peak torque of the Vg33e comes at a much lower rpm (2800) vs the Vq40 at 4000 rpm.

Stock curb weight of my 2003 XE is about 3780lbs. I've likely added 1000lbs between gear, fuel, and bodies (maybe more). People give Toyota a hard time about brakes on the Tacoma. If the brakes are that bad, I suspect Toyota has to change how they tune them, as the brakes on my X have ZERO issues stopping a 5000lb vehicle in a hurry.

If towing is a goal, I suspect you may be better off with the 2nd Gen, as the extra power there will make a big difference. I've only towed my 1500lb trailer once so far, and off road, the X towed beautifully. On road, she struggled a bit, especially going up any hills.

If you're interested, my sister has a 2002 she's going to be putting up for sale here shortly.

That’s an interesting point about the 6 bolt flange on the CVs. If I’m not mistaken that’s a common failure point on the 1st gen Tacoma IFS.

The downside of 1G Xterras is how hard it is to find one with at least a decent maintenance history. Because of their cheap prices, so many were just used as cheap throwaway vehicles.

For some reason I also see a weirdly high amount of 2WD Xterras on the market. I’m looking for one with a 5 speed, and most turn out to be one of the bare-bones modes with the 4 cylinder and RWD. I don’t see the point of owning one of these if it’s not 4x4.

 

[smritte]

Are you saying Toyota has better QC practices when it comes to the parts they use? My current Tacoma seems fairly well cared for; at least most of the big-ticket items have been done (ball joints, etc.) and the engine has excellent compression.

Sigh. Don't blame me for this answer but, you asked.

I'll just comment on the SUV's. The only Nissan experience I have is Pathfinder/Xterra and even that its limited to only a few.

I spent my life professionally working for American vehicle manufacture's but with the exception of a few Jeeps, have owned mostly Toyota trucks/SUV's. Also, a close friend of mine ran a fairy large engine machine shop. During our conversations, he would comment on the difference between Toyota manufacturing of engine parts vs the rest of the market. Its not so much of a QC thing as it is more of a longevity thing.

I've been in diffrent off road groups/clubs since the early 80's. All you saw were Jeeps and Toyota's. Nissan didn't really have much in the American market until the middle 90's. They ramped up their SUV production and dumped a ton of money into advertising. The more that sells, the more we see in the way of aftermarket accessory's. When I say accessories, I mean everything from bumpers to lift kits to lockers.... What they targeted was Toyota's American market. Now I started to see more Nissans.

Even though Nissan sales were climbing, Toyota still held the market for accessories. About 5-6 years ago, the "Overlanding" fad hit and you saw more people buying Nissan. I blame that on the cost of a Toyota. First thing we have to understand is Nissans market is not "built" toward off road, its marketed as off road but built as a suburban commuter. So, now we have more Nissans being bought as off-road toys and now we finally have better aftermarket support. Toyota/jeep still outsells Nissan and holds more of the aftermarket. The reason this is important is aftermarket competition. The more people that build something the better the tech.

Toyota corporate has a policy I don't know if I agree with. They prefer to hold back on tech and let the rest of the world work the bugs out of things before they dive in. What I'm saying is they commonly run almost a full generation behind current tech. This is because the owner (forgot his name) wants to have the highest quality vehicles on the market. They also would show up to my off-road events with something new (and a bunch of non English speaking engineers), let people drive them around and get real world input.

Now is where I comment on the differences I see working on them. Starting with driveline. Axle sizes are similar and adequate for what we do. I don't know if anyone makes Moly axles for Nissan but I would be surprised if no one did. Transfer case mods. I have been told one or two exist for Nissan but I don't know which transfer cases, Most of the Toyota cases have diffrent gear sets available as well as split cases.
That leaves engine and trans. I cant comment on Nissans trans but I can say Toyota over builds theirs. This is good for longevity but bad for fuel mileage. Toyota does need to rework the trans software on the six speed.
Engine. I have known my engine machinist friend for decades. We talk about some of the things Toyota does to their engines that no one else does. Things like piston oilers, cylinder coatings, piston ring design.... basically, if you take care of it, the engine wear is minimal with the exception of seals and normal wear items.
What all this means is, Toyota as a corporation builds vehicles to last. That also means, they don't produce the latest tech until its proven. A resent example is the Supra. Its literally a BMW with a Toyota hood. BMW tech, not Toyota.

At work I train people to be techs and some of the guys I train are going to be factory trainers. I have a few Nissans I use to train with but, mostly I train for Toyota. other than internal engine overkill, the biggest thing that makes them diffrent is Toyota uses a ton of redundancy with their electrical. What that means to me is, setting an electrical bug in a Toyota sucks, the Nissan is easier by far. Years later when you have a bit of corrosion, the Toyota will still work electrically.

Toyota tends to use overkill on their truck brakes, overkill their transmissions and sometimes their axles. I may not agree with their engine designs because their either behind the curve or like everyone else, putting out commuter engines. I can say though, what ever the build is, they add in things to make them last.

Kind of the long way around your question and trust me, I could spend way more time comparing the differences in most vehicles but this is why I will always choose Toyota. If your looking for something to out live you, Toyota hands down. I do believe Nissan did a better job on the interior layout over 4runner.

My vehicles are going to be used. I require good aftermarket support as well as an overall quality build. If I could find that in a Nissan, I wouldn't have an issue owning one. I do prefer the Nissan interior over the 4runner.