Higher Fuel Prices And Overlanding

[Tundracamper]

When gas hits $6/gal soon, it’s gonna help even out the great year for overlandong and RV sales. Then when Amazon prime membership doubles, folks will really start complaining. Last time prices spiked, it bothered me. This time, I think I’m looking forward to it. Should be entertaining. Less people on the road when I travel:).

 

[DMS1]

The GF and I are headed out west to explore in June, or whenever my Go Fast Camper is finished. We are budgeting $1000 for fuel. I would rather not go over budget. We decided our vacation trip is going to be dependant on fuel prices now, rather than time. When we start to run out of money, we'll decide where we want to live.

If you come as far west as CA, once you cross the CA border gas will instantly increase at least $1.10 more than all the states that surrounding CA due to extra taxes.

 

[DMS1]

Don’t have one, yet. Electric will be next replacing our daily driver. You got my point though. For every advancement in technology there are always nay sayers and the nay sayers, in general, are wrong. Nay sayers abounded for Fulton, the Write Brothers, Edison, Jobs, Gates, Tesla etc etc. my original point, which has been lost somewhere in this, is that renewable energy powered vehicles will keep the cost of operating oil powered vehicles in check. Fuel prices may go up, but combined with conservation and the emergence of electric vehicles those prices will remain stable because of the continued glut in the global oil markets.

The only reason Electric cars are even being considered is because of Government regulations forcing manufacturers to make engines using alternative fuels. If those regulations did not exist not many automotive manufacturers would be making electric cars. Electricity will cost more than gas once more than 50% of the vehicles on the road are electric.

 

[MarioT'sCJResto]

The only reason Electric cars are even being considered is because of Government regulations forcing manufacturers to make engines using alternative fuels. If those regulations did not exist not many automotive manufacturers would be making electric cars. Electricity will cost more than gas once more than 50% of the vehicles on the road are electric.

Just the other day I found myself browsing Tesla's site for the CyberTruck. Then I had also consider the Posted Range (4x4) with the dual motor - 300miles. The dual motor seemed to be a more affordable option, now if you factor in towing it's said that you could see a decrease in max range. I'm guessing that perhaps in the next 5 to 10 years I might pull the string on a cyber truck, and even if I do I will always keep the classics on the road.

Now to the original question if my overloading plans will change due to the increase in Gas Prices, I really don't know at this time and to be honest I have been more worried about Covid and if we can expect an ease on traveling restrictions. So for now my plans for a ME to AK and AK to Baja plans are basically on hold. I'm thinking for 2021- 2022 my travel plans will be restricted the TriState area for weekend trips. When things open up, I'll have to tweak my budget based on my Max Range, and some future upgrades that I will adding.

 

[MOAK]

The only reason Electric cars are even being considered is because of Government regulations forcing manufacturers to make engines using alternative fuels. If those regulations did not exist not many automotive manufacturers would be making electric cars. Electricity will cost more than gas once more than 50% of the vehicles on the road are electric.

If regulations did not exist, we'd all be living in ramshackle houses, with faulty electricity and bad plumbing set upon poor foundations. Our national infrastructure would not have lasted nearly a hundred years. Some regulations are good, it's a matter of perspective or world view.

I see you are from Gardena, California? Why bring politics into this? Maybe you are not old enough to remember the constant brown smog that blanketed the southland and nearly every major city in the US, back in the 60s, 70s and early 80s? I lived in the LA basin for 10 years. I was brought up on a farm nearly 35 miles from the rubber mills of Akron to the west and 30 miles to the steel mills of Youngstown to the east. I can remember as a little boy my eyes watering and the stench, because of Akron's rubber mills. I remember seeing the Cuyahoga on fire. An oil slick on Berlin Lake where we fished swam and skinny dipped. I personally do not want to go back to that. I enjoy the lack of pollutants in my streams and rivers, the lack of acid rain destroying the great north woods, and the amount of smog in the air I breath. I enjoy seeing hawks and Bald Eagles on a regular basis, clean back country air, good fresh drinking water, and yes, what we all on these forums have in common, a general love for nature and the great outdoors, otherwise we wouldn't be on these forums. I understand the flaws and pitfalls of EVs. Fully, but I also know it is a major stepping stone to get us away from the socio/economic influence of the giant oil companies, let alone, the further destruction of what, ( I'll say once again ) we all, as overlanders claim to enjoy and dare I say, love.
I have stated here and on other forums that EVs and PPVs and more than likely a third that we do not even know exists, will compete with one another, thereby keeping the cost of gasoline and diesel competitive with EV or whatever other alternative power lies in the future. So perhaps one day, EVs will be more expensive to operate than PPVs.

 

[Square Foot]

Short answer to OP question is no. The cheapest part of overlanding seems to be actually going overlanding. Food and Gas. I've spent several years worth of gas money on stuff to go overlanding.

 

[SquishBang]

I see you are from Gardena, California? Why bring politics into this? Maybe you are not old enough to remember the constant brown smog that blanketed the southland and nearly every major city in the US, back in the 60s, 70s and early 80s? I lived in the LA basin for 10 years. I was brought up on a farm nearly 35 miles from the rubber mills of Akron to the west and 30 miles to the steel mills of Youngstown to the east. I can remember as a little boy my eyes watering and the stench, because of Akron's rubber mills. I remember seeing the Cuyahoga on fire. An oil slick on Berlin Lake where we fished swam and skinny dipped. I personally do not want to go back to that. I enjoy the lack of pollutants in my streams and rivers, the lack of acid rain destroying the great north woods, and the amount of smog in the air I breath. I enjoy seeing hawks and Bald Eagles on a regular basis, clean back country air, good fresh drinking water, and yes, what we all on these forums have in common, a general love for nature and the great outdoors, otherwise we wouldn't be on these forums.

That pollution never went away. It just went to other countries, along with our jobs. I'm not so sure that is progress.

 

[MOAK]

That pollution never went away. It just went to other countries, along with our jobs. I'm not so sure that is progress.

That is a truism. Progress? we don't know that answer for another 100 years. History's dance is mostly 3 steps forward 2 steps back. Hopefully in our lifetimes we can get the rest of the industrialized world on board. We still have plenty of jobs, we just need to pay our services workers the same way we have historically paid our factory/mining workers cause those old factory/mining jobs are not coming back and service jobs should not be devalued. As far as the OP's original question? I've done the math and $6.00 a gallon would our tipping point. Last fall we turned a 7,000 mile trip and the year before that an 11,000 mile trip. That 11,000 mile trip cost us $2750 for gas. ( we get 12 mpg ) Double that would be doable, but we'd plan better and spend less of the trip wandering aimlessly around the west so $6 would be doable, but any more would cause us to think twice. Get a more efficient vehicle, or travel less.

 

[SquishBang]

That is a truism. Progress? we don't know that answer for another 100 years. History's dance is mostly 3 steps forward 2 steps back. Hopefully in our lifetimes we can get the rest of the industrialized world on board. We still have plenty of jobs, we just need to pay our services workers the same way we have historically paid our factory/mining workers cause those old factory/mining jobs are not coming back and service jobs should not be devalued.

I work in the semiconductor manufacturing business, and my wife in the aerospace business. Don't want to derail too much here, but I don't agree that service jobs are worth the same as skilled jobs. We are currently trying to get TSMC to open a Fab in Phoenix, AZ, a great state to do manufacturing, and they are balking at the 6X cost of doing business in the USA. Paying Starbucks workers "a living wage" just pushes up inflation, increasing our costs in a globalized world. Anyway, I'm being a bit guilty of de-railing a thread, I do take these matters to heart.

 

[MOAK]

I work in the semiconductor manufacturing business, and my wife in the aerospace business. Don't want to derail too much here, but I don't agree that service jobs are worth the same as skilled jobs. We are currently trying to get TSMC to open a Fab in Phoenix, AZ, a great state to do manufacturing, and they are balking at the 6X cost of doing business in the USA. Paying Starbucks workers "a living wage" just pushes up inflation, increasing our costs in a globalized world. Anyway, I'm being a bit guilty of de-railing a thread, I do take these matters to heart.

I agree with you there 100%, our daughter runs a lab, big-time student debt, and making a very nice living. Professional and/or skilled labor is always and should be, highly compensated for in our system. I'm comparing the old school, unskilled laborer that used to work on production lines. Or the unskilled laborer that worked in the steel mills. I worked a production line one summer. It was a mold line for tire casings and inner tube manufacturing. I was unskilled labor, as was everyone else (except the machinists and mechanics) and we were all making union rate. Back in 74 unskilled laborers were making about 8 dollars an hour. Today? unskilled laborers are still making about 8 dollars an hour, maybe 10. I should have clarified that I was referring specifically to unskilled labor.

 

[egilbe]

I agree with you there 100%, our daughter runs a lab, big-time student debt, and making a very nice living. Professional and/or skilled labor is always and should be, highly compensated for in our system. I'm comparing the old school, unskilled laborer that used to work on production lines. Or the unskilled laborer that worked in the steel mills. I worked a production line one summer. It was a mold line for tire casings and inner tube manufacturing. I was unskilled labor, as was everyone else (except the machinists and mechanics) and we were all making union rate. Back in 74 unskilled laborers were making about 8 dollars an hour. Today? unskilled laborers are still making about 8 dollars an hour, maybe 10. I should have clarified that I was referring specifically to unskilled labor.

I started my work life working for farmers. $.50 an hour picking rocks and sticks out of new pastureland. in the '70's. Started in retail making $1.40 an hour, I think that was minimum wage back then, 1980 or so. I know it wasn;t very much to put up with cranky shoppers. After I got out of the army, I worked construction as a laborer for awhile making $6.00 an hour in 1988. My first mfg job in 1988 started at $6.50 an hour and after 9 months went to $11.00 an hour. I was rolling in the money. I was spending $250 a week in the bars, at least. After I quit drinking, I had saved up enough money to buy a house, which I promptly gave to the ex-wife in a divorce.

after WW2, the CEO of a company made 30 times the salary of the lowest paid employee working for him. Now, a CEO makes 400 to 1000 times more than the lowest paid employee. I never realized that someone who could make a decision once in a while was that much more valuable than the grunt doing all the work making widgets.

Even earning a degree sinks a young person into so much financial debt, that they spend the first 20 years of their adult life trying to pay off student loans. The game is rigged, and the only way to win, is to not play the game. At some point, in every society throughout history, the poor have risen up and destroyed the ruling class. Everyone starts off at the bottom again. The poor have nothing to lose. the wealthy and powerful, everything. The capital "riots" are a symptom. Congress and the ruling class really need to look hard at why a group of people felt it was necessary to attack members of our government.

 

[SquishBang]

after WW2, the CEO of a company made 30 times the salary of the lowest paid employee working for him. Now, a CEO makes 400 to 1000 times more than the lowest paid employee. I never realized that someone who could make a decision once in a while was that much more valuable than the grunt doing all the work making widgets.

Make matters worse, modern day CEO's are even more useless than those decades ago.

The world is weird these days, a company that makes jet engines has stock that is only $12/share. And they make jet engines!
And Amazon, a peddler of cheap Chinese stuff, is worth $3100 a share!

Nonetheless, if people took more responsibility for themselves, there's still plenty of opportunity....just be sure if that college education is really useful!

 

[DRAX]

It's my thread.

The premise is "how will you adjust "IF" the price of fuel doubles or worse." Like I said, it's gone up 30% since that picture was taken a little over 3 months ago.

It's not meant to be an argument about how you think it WON'T go up. Just an exercise in personal monetary policy.

My Hemi with the 8 speed get's over 20 mpg on the highway, so I'll probably keep it. I've heard of Tacoma's not getting 20.

It's odd how these threads de-rail so quickly....

Fair enough. If that happened and a 3,000 mile trip went from ~$400 in fuel to $800 and then $1200 that would suck but it ultimately wouldn't change much for me. Traveling/Adventures are my therapy, if I stopped traveling or limited how far I'd go for a trip I'd likely go insane. I would also say that for many of us the cost of fuel doesn't compare to the cost of the mods and accessories that we've done or added to our vehicles. Sure, there's a wide spectrum from the budget overlander to the fully kitted-out overlander and we all have different budgets. I will say that compared to our other activities/hobbies, overlanding is one of the cheapest activities we do or have done, both in terms of buy-in as well as operating costs. $1200 is roughly what it used to cost in fuel when we would do 2-3 week road trips towing a travel trailer, so $400 for similar distances and lengths of time is a bargain. We're also lucky to be able to afford to do such things and have time off which I know isn't the case for everyone.

Generally speaking, the operating costs while overlanding aren't much different than staying home except for the added cost of fuel. Our eating habits are similar, though we try and cook more while camping than we seem to try and do at home. That does make fuel costs one of the most expensive parts of overlanding but for us that cost is still pretty minimal.

Spring and summer can't get here soon enough!

 

[bgenlvtex]

 

[Nikosan]

 

[Boostpowered]

View attachment 190896

Sucks for you.

 

[bgenlvtex]

For those extended travellers who are visting the european union, you already can see that price....

1 Gallon consits of 3,79 liters

Currently around:
Gasoline: 6.06021
Diesel: 5.28326

A price comparison in europe you can find here: https://www.tcs.ch/mam/Digital-Media/PDF/Info-Sheet/benzinpreise.pdf

Because our speedlimit here is often way less restrictive than in the US, tooo the fuel usage is usually a bit higher as in the US.....

So you can be pretty happy to be able to save bucks 2 times compared to people in the european union, as example..

tripping

What percentage of refined oil products are imported in Europe?

I'm still fascinated with people thinking that European fuel costs are a valid reference point to North American fuel costs.

The shortest path between my two addresses is slightly over 4,000 miles/6500 kilometers. If you drove 6500 kilometers from your current location in any one general direction where would you be? I'm pretty sure the only direction you could drive 6500k would put you in the middle of Russia.

I'm not picking on you and I understand that you are simply offering a reference point, but simple geography excludes any reasonable comparison.

 

[Nikosan]

Sucks for you
/QUOTE]
Cost of living in beautiful SF Bay Area

 

[Boostpowered]

It isnt simple geography, it is just the tax who defines the price most at the end. At least I did guess that. In Switzerland are 57% tax on the fuel,,,

The world market is global, so the "clean" prices are nearby in most countrys.

If you are able to visit Angola, you will see that price per gallon: 0.758$

tripping

Global petrol prices say in angola 1 gallon of regular gasoline is .980

 

[Boostpowered]

Serious question, is there a black market in CA for fuel? Can you get a gallon of stolen or imported gas like a bag of dope on a street corner?

Asking for a friend with a tanker trailer.