Higher Fuel Prices And Overlanding

[egilbe]

The GF and I are headed out west to explore in June, or whenever my Go Fast Camper is finished. We are budgeting $1000 for fuel. I would rather not go over budget. We decided our vacation trip is going to be dependant on fuel prices now, rather than time. When we start to run out of money, we'll decide where we want to live.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

and there are charging ports all over the country.

The Paducah/Metropolis metro area shows 27 charging ports.

Paducah, Kentucky EV Charging Stations | PlugShare

There are roughly 100,000 people.

Paducah micropolitan area - Wikipedia

The math simply doesn't work for here.

 

[egilbe]

There is an Irving station in Bethel, ME that has 6 or 7 Tesla charging stations. It's in Western Maine, logging, fishing, hunting, canoeing and hiking country. I would stop there to get gas occasionally when traveling to hike or maintain hiking trails in Grafton Notch. I used to park in the space before they put in the charging stations and asked the attendant after they were installed, where I could park. He said there was fine. No one ever uses them.

 

[MOAK]

Don’t have one, yet. Electric will be next replacing our daily driver. You got my point though. For every advancement in technology there are always nay sayers and the nay sayers, in general, are wrong. Nay sayers abounded for Fulton, the Write Brothers, Edison, Jobs, Gates, Tesla etc etc. my original point, which has been lost somewhere in this, is that renewable energy powered vehicles will keep the cost of operating oil powered vehicles in check. Fuel prices may go up, but combined with conservation and the emergence of electric vehicles those prices will remain stable because of the continued glut in the global oil markets.

 

[Neuvik]

Don’t have one, yet. Electric will be next replacing our daily driver. You got my point though. For every advancement in technology there are always nay sayers and the nay sayers, in general, are wrong. Nay sayers abounded for Fulton, the Write Brothers, Edison, Jobs, Gates, Tesla etc etc. my original point, which has been lost somewhere in this, is that renewable energy powered vehicles will keep the cost of operating oil powered vehicles in check. Fuel prices may go up, but combined with conservation and the emergence of electric vehicles those prices will remain stable because of the continued glut in the global oil markets.

Oh did I your point? ...or were you just to quick to rant without rereading my prior posts and taking it out of context. They are fine in the cities and pavement overlanding...for like the 5th time.

I'm all for advances in tech, I don't need a lecture about naysayers in what I'm guessing is still a veiled reference to me...

Right now though, the majority of vehicles EV and hybrid are liabilities on trails beyond well maintained forest roads. Here is where you can call me old fashion, because if I can't buy it right now, it doesn't exist...You guys are claiming all these vehicles of the future. Cool....where are they and how long? I hope companies make some awesome equipment, like I said, hopefully the Jeep 4XE is amazing with no issues. Its got all the offroad features I want and still maintains a 400 mile range, but low costs for city/commute driving. I personally wouldn't buy it for a few years though until all the bugs are worked out.

Glad to hear about your daily driver though, let me know when you replace the Land Cruise with the Hybrid Sequoia.

 

[MOAK]

Oh did I your point? ...or were you just to quick to rant without rereading my prior posts and taking it out of context. They are fine in the cities and pavement overlanding...for like the 5th time.

I'm all for advances in tech, I don't need a lecture about naysayers in what I'm guessing is still a veiled reference to me...

Right now though, the majority of vehicles EV and hybrid are liabilities on trails beyond well maintained forest roads. Here is where you can call me old fashion, because if I can't buy it right now, it doesn't exist...You guys are claiming all these vehicles of the future. Cool....where are they and how long? I hope companies make some awesome equipment, like I said, hopefully the Jeep 4XE is amazing with no issues. Its got all the offroad features I want and still maintains a 400 mile range, but low costs for city/commute driving. I personally wouldn't buy it for a few years though until all the bugs are worked out.

Glad to hear about your daily driver though, let me know when you replace the Land Cruise with the Hybrid Sequoia.

Oh, that won’t happen, I can’t say the cruiser will never be sold, but I don’t foresee it being for sale for at least another 10 years.. I can’t see purchasing an EV for back country touring, at least not until they can be recharged by simply sitting in the sun. That may or may not happen in my lifetime. I think, now that I’ve picked your brain, that we agree on most of the issues brought up in this thread. I wasn’t calling you specifically a naysayer, but naysayers in general and through out our history have been proven wrong a lot more than they have been correct in their naysayerness.. still EVs will be competing directly with fossil fuels which will keep the price of fossil fuels competitive.. yea or nay?

 

[Old Tanker]

You keep talking about hybrids and or electrics being useful only for city folks. A couple of winters ago, in the middle of Wyoming a Tesla blew by us. That got my attention. Tesla vehicles have a greater range than my vehicle, and most other overland vehicles by far, and there are charging ports all over the country. Your assumption is wrong, do just a tiny bit of reading. Whenever folks reject any new technology I’m reminded of the same type of folks that rejected the horseless carriages or powered steam boats. There were also laws made back then that “ forced” those with horses to clean up their poop and they too were complaining of government regulations. Imagine Main Street stinking of horse shit on a hot July day. The chain driven truck comes to mind, they were horrible and constantly breaking down, but cartage haulers stuck with them and today we have our transportation industry. I’m not going to get into everything else you have said on this topic, I just don’t have the time, but you really ought to do just the tiniest bit of research before writing, cause as the saying goes, you’ve removed all doubt.

A Tesla operating in typical Wyoming winter temperatures, running a heater and blowing by vehicles on the highway has a sharply reduced operating range (down at least 35%). Then there is the delay of finding a recharging station and waiting for a recharge. There is a future for these cars, but an extended winter drive through fly-over country is not yet a practical thing.

 

[Joey83]

I'm used to expensive fuel.

Norwegian fuel prices converted to american ones equals roughly $7 a gallon, it's fine, I'm used to that.

 

[DRAX]

Let's see, I paid around $2.50/gal last fill up and when on overlanding trips I average around 22mpg, that includes pavement and dirt roads. Our last long trip was last August and all told it was about 3,000 miles.

3000 / 22 = 136.4 gallons.

136.4 * 2.50 = $341 in fuel for the whole trip.

If that goes up to average $3.50/gal then that same trip would cost $477, an increase of $136 for the entire trip which would last 2-3 weeks. If we can't afford an extra $136 for a vacation then we shouldn't be taking the vacation in the first place.

Filling the tank stings no matter what, but such increases in fuel costs aren't going to change anything for us. As has already been mentioned, the US has cheap fuel. Not the cheapest, but in the grand scheme it's among the cheapest in the world. Some people will complain about anything... ;)

 

[MidOH]

Renewable power over oil????

Yeah, electric cars don't have that either. They're truly powered by CNG, coal, and nuclear. Especially noteworthy is that a ton of that power is wasted on the grid during transmission. Electric cars aren't green at all.

We'll have fusion before they are.

Tesla's run on lithium ion batteries. Lithium that's extracted from brine in S. america, and strip mining in Australia. Those strip mines run on coal. If that isn't alreah bad enough, they need nickel and cobalt as well. Only 5% of all of these batteries get recycled. And Tesla owners are the type of people that buy new cars every three years. They ain't keeping these things for 25 years like a good truck owner.

Lithium polymer and lithium ion batteries are great for aux power in airplanes, and cell phones. Using them in cars is irresponsible.

https://www.egr.msu.edu/bae/sites/default/files/content/SS2020/BE%20230%20Project%2C%20lithium-ion%20poster%20Ajemian%20-%20Carroll%20-%20Scamardi%20-%20Soullier.pdf

Tesla's Electric Cars Aren't as Green as You Might Think

Despite their green cred, Tesla cars create pollution and carbon emissions in ways that are easily overlooked by consumers and investors.

www.wired.com

 

[DRAX]

Diesel + renewable biofuels + WVO recycling...doesn't get much greener. ;)

 

[MidOH]

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R46420.pdf

Good report.

 

[SquishBang]

And Tesla owners are the type of people that buy new cars every three years. They ain't keeping these things for 25 years like a good truck owner.

This is a point I always try to make. "Greenies" are constantly in the "latest and greatest" rig. Not only are they smug about their "greenness" they also can't be seen in something "old".

If people REALLY wanted to REDUCE the impact on the environment, they would drive the bare minimum vehicle for as long as possible. Anyone want to bet that a Toyota Tercel/Yaris owned for 20 years would be greener for the Earth than the 6+ EV's needed to satisfy someone's ego?

Actually, if people really wanted to save the Earth, they could go "feed the trees" and take themselves out of the eternal consumption engine.

BTW, those Tesla "Superchargers" can charge 2 Teslas at a time, but when charging 2 they can't "Supercharge". And the cost per mile is equivalent to a BMW 340i

 

[MOAK]

This is a point I always try to make. "Greenies" are constantly in the "latest and greatest" rig. Not only are they smug about their "greenness" they also can't be seen in something "old".

If people REALLY wanted to REDUCE the impact on the environment, they would drive the bare minimum vehicle for as long as possible. Anyone want to bet that a Toyota Tercel/Yaris owned for 20 years would be greener for the Earth than the 6+ EV's needed to satisfy someone's ego?

Actually, if people really wanted to save the Earth, they could go "feed the trees" and take themselves out of the eternal consumption engine.

BTW, those Tesla "Superchargers" can charge 2 Teslas at a time, but when charging 2 they can't "Supercharge". And the cost per mile is equivalent to a BMW 340i

Interesting,, I just don’t fit the mold, I’m kinda of a greenie, but very pragmatic about it as I think it’s important to leave a small footprint. “Leave no Trace” and “Tread Lightly” ethics are not only for the back country but also a way of life. We have these giant trash containers that get picked up every week. Ours is never full, hell, we wouldn’t fill it up in a month. Our Landcruiser is 25 years old. My Ranger pick up truck is 31 years old. My home is 117 years old. I’m considering an EV, we’ll see how long my wife’s 6 year old RAV4 lasts. By that time EVs will either be the gold standard or something more eco friendly will come along. I do know research is working on synthetic batteries as I type this, but that may be decades away.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I'm used to expensive fuel.

Norwegian fuel prices converted to american ones equals roughly $7 a gallon, it's fine, I'm used to that.

So what if it doubled, and then tripled?

That's the point of the thread.

 

[DRAX]

So what if it doubled, and then tripled?

That's the point of the thread.

You really think fuel will go from, say, $3/gal to $6 and then $9? Let's tone down the hyperbole. On average, there was only one period where the average price of regular gas exceeded $4/gal within the past ~27 years. Diesel has had it slightly worse with a higher spike during the same period gas spiked and then a prolonged period around $4/gal.

Gas: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMM_EPMR_PTE_NUS_DPG&f=W
Diesel: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMM_EPMR_PTE_NUS_DPG&f=W

Anything is possible, but it's not going to happen overnight. Maybe in another 27 years it'll be quite a bit more expensive, but a lot will change in that amount of time.

 

[Alanymarce]

So what if it doubled, and then tripled?

That's the point of the thread.

The multiple is relatively unimportant compared with the absolute price. In Venezuela, in 2016, the price of petrol/gasoline went up by a factor of 60 (60 times more expensive overnight). It was (and remains) still ridiculously cheap - today's price (when you can find it) is 8 US cents/US gallon, so I could fill my tank for USD 19.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

Let's tone down the hyperbole.

It's my thread.

The premise is "how will you adjust "IF" the price of fuel doubles or worse." Like I said, it's gone up 30% since that picture was taken a little over 3 months ago.

It's not meant to be an argument about how you think it WON'T go up. Just an exercise in personal monetary policy.

My Hemi with the 8 speed get's over 20 mpg on the highway, so I'll probably keep it. I've heard of Tacoma's not getting 20.

It's odd how these threads de-rail so quickly....

 

[Wildmanreed]

When you get extreme price fluctuations like back in 2007 you see three things:
1: mad dash to get gas as cheap as possible which will drive the price up even more and cause fuel shortages
2: less people doing recreational activities such as overlanding even boating
3: fights at gas station for taking to long at pump

 

[MidOH]

I know a guy that had to knock the block off of a guy trying to take away his pump handle. Mumbeled something in broken English that anyone with an IQ over their tires air pressure could never figure out........

It was even/odd number plates with even/odd numbered days fueling only. Ding dong didn't know that working trucks need fuel every day, and had to sleep it off.