Help with direction

[Rowan Trollope]

Hello!

I’m looking to find a great trailer or build one.

This forum has been such a terrific resource! Thanks to all of you who contribute.

I have been eyeing the Patriot and UEV and also the Schutt.

This is for camping and over landing with the family in California, Oregon, Nevada, Utah, etc. 2 young kids and me and my wife.

One challenge is the truck I’m towing with is very large - 8’ wide, 40” MPT81’s with a big lift. This makes for a very tall and wide truck and I’m worried any trailer will be dwarfed by the truck.

I’d love to visit Overland expo to see all the options in person but there’s no way I can get away for that.

So I am hoping to learn enough online to buy something.

Considerations:

1) something that can sport large tires... (think 40” overkill but looking for opinions on different size trailer tires vs the main rig). How important is width? I doubt I can find something so wide...

2) Of everything I’ve seen I think UAV or Patriot are tops, but not clear how much they might modify for me.

3) In general ruggedness and the right size for my truck are key, as well as attention to detail

4) might tow sometimes with my old Overland rig - a heavily modified LR4 which would suggest not going with a such beast of a trailer...?

All of this leaves me wondering:

A) better to buy off the shelf and look for customizationS OR build from scratch?

B) If build from scratch any recommendations on who might be able to do that (in Northern California ideally or Reno area)

C) how big of an issue is a different size width vs main rig and smaller tires?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Rowan Trollope]

I should mention I’ve read almost every relevant thread in this forum which has been awesome.

 

[MOAK]

I'm a firm believer that the trailer track should be the same as the tow vehicle. I read up on this topic and the physics behind it years ago before I began building mine up. Some like it when the trailer is narrower, but I prefer having the trailer following the exact same track as my rig that way I know exactly where it will track

 

[Rowan Trollope]

I'm a firm believer that the trailer track should be the same as the tow vehicle. I read up on this topic and the physics behind it years ago before I began building mine up. Some like it when the trailer is narrower, but I prefer having the trailer following the exact same track as my rig that way I know exactly where it will track

Very helpful. Thank you.

Follow up question: How important to have the same size wheels/tires? I feel like MPT81’s on Hutchinson headlocks would be wild overkill for the trailer. The obvious benefit of interchangeability being the trade off. For those on the forum with trailers do your rig and trailer have matching wheels and tires ?

Thoughts?

Rowan

 

[MOAK]

The short answer is yes. However, in most states beadlocks are illegal for highway use. So I'm just running 255s on 16s with matching wheels all the way around.. My rig currently has 285s, but the diameter in nearly the same. My next set I'll be matching them up again. I'll get back to rotating 7 tires again as I had been previous to the 285s. With the same diameter tires on the trailer there is never any concern about the trailer clearing any obstacles. Because the trailer has the same diameter tires, and without a differential, the clearance, approach, and break away angles are much better than my tow rig. I just don't have to be concerned about it. It will follow wherever I go.

 

[Rowan Trollope]

Makes sense! Thank you ;)

 

[Todd & Meg]

A few questions.

What is the purpose of the trailer? Sleep in? carry more gear? Put a RTT on?

Other than looks to match the truck I don't see any advantage to 40" tires on a trailer. I would think it has more disadvantages. hight center of gravity, more weight, heavier duty axel and springs needed, wide, higher cost.

A wide truck with a wide trailer I would think would limit the the trail you could do. You didn't say how long the truck is but factor that in too. Switchback can be hard with short wheelbase vehicles then throw a trailer on and its that much harder. I have no interest in having to unhitch the trailer to make a switchback. Mostly because I know I couldn't handle the trailer by myself on a trail that is off camber, or up or down hill.

Are you happy with the big truck as your overland vehicle?

Everyone has their own needs in a rig and trailer. Spend some time and figure that out. For me I wouldn't need a full size truck with a trailer. We have a 4 door Jeep and I am building a teardrop camper now. We looked into the RTT expo trailer and it won't work for us. So the best thing was a teardrop. But that also meant we are wider than I would like, and a little taller too. But we knew maybe we couldn't go on all the trails we would want.

Todd

 

[Rowan Trollope]

Thanks Todd!

Good advice on the tires and wheels. I’m going to stick to something smaller.

Purpose of the trailer is RTT plus kitchen and so on. I’ve done a ton of camping in my current overland rig an LR4 and tired of packing everything in and out and looking forward to the idea of the trailer where everything is packed in.

The new truck is not ideal for small trails or switchbacks and so on. It’s more for bigger fire roads and open areas.

Rowan

 

[MOAK]

OK, I'm completely lost here. You have an LR4 sitting atop 40" tires? or an undisclosed new truck sitting on 40" tires? Either way, my question would be, have you ever tried to back up a trailer with a narrower track than the tow vehicle? It is nearly impossible to back straight up, or to follow it while backing up a curve. That would be another strong consideration for matching the tracks. You do have a lot to think about.

 

[Todd & Meg]

OK, I'm completely lost here. You have an LR4 sitting atop 40" tires? or an undisclosed new truck sitting on 40" tires? Either way, my question would be, have you ever tried to back up a trailer with a narrower track than the tow vehicle? It is nearly impossible to back straight up, or to follow it while backing up a curve. That would be another strong consideration for matching the tracks. You do have a lot to think about.

I've pulled a few trailers over the years and am far from an expert. One was a rebar trailer that was only 3' wide. It was every easy to backup, but it was probably 25' long. My little 4X8 utility trailer seems to be a little harder to back up but that is because you can't see it in the mirrors, It is much easier when I have a wider load on it and can see it in the mirrors.

I have found that shorter trailers are harder to backup. And I think wheel base on the TV probably has something to it.

Is it because it is harder to see a trailer that is narrower than then one that is the same width as the TV? What about wider than the TV, would that be the same as same width?

Todd

 

[Rowan Trollope]

OK, I'm completely lost here. You have an LR4 sitting atop 40" tires? or an undisclosed new truck sitting on 40" tires? Either way, my question would be, have you ever tried to back up a trailer with a narrower track than the tow vehicle? It is nearly impossible to back straight up, or to follow it while backing up a curve. That would be another strong consideration for matching the tracks. You do have a lot to think about.

Yes my message was a bit confusing!

Let me clarify:

I have an old LR4 which I have used for overlanding. It’s on 33” wheels. I may use this for towing the trailer on occasion. As it will take me just about anywhere (we managed to get it through the rubicon recently, but it was an epic)

The trailer id like to buy/create will be pulled primarily by my new truck, which is based on a Ford f450 4x4 and has a very wide track. This is the truck with 40” tires. Not ideal for small trails.

What I’m hearing is ideally I should have a trailer with the same track as the truck but with smaller wheels.

 

[MOAK]

Cool, an F450 is a pretty nice medium duty truck. Any larger american built truck you have just zero articulation. I'll give you my unvarnished, humble opinion, based upon my personal experience, (pulling livestock trailers behind HD Pickup trucks since the age of 16. Then 10 years experience driving dump trucks with equipment trailers, 25 years OTR 18wheeler, and finally dragging an off-road trailer for the past 11 years into some of the most remote areas in the lower 48). I say this because I don't want you to think I'm just some old geezer blowing pooo out my mouth :) )

One thing I learned in hauling livestock and then in the construction business, is that when you purchase mobile equipment, always, always get a bigger one than you think you need. Even at that, I made that mistake back in 1996 with my 1st vehicle choice.

The question you must ask yourself, and to me the answer is quite obvious, Do you ever want to have to turn around and go back the other way, because your trailer cannot follow everywhere your truck can go? Do you ever want to snag your trailer on a rock or ledge, drag the tail, tweak an axle, or damage a tongue? Do you ever want to be stranded because a spare tire for each unit was not enough? I carry 1 spare, it fits all. In the event of catastrophic tire failures I can drop trailer for additional spare and come back for the trailer later. You may very well be OK with smaller tires, as long as the trailer has as much clearance, approach angle, and departure angle as the tow rig. Me? I like carrying 1 and having 2 additional spare tires if needed.

Track width, you need to be able to see where the trailer is tracking, and you need to be able to back up with ease. Adjust your mirrors accordingly when on or off road. If the trailer is a narrower track than the tow vehicle you cannot see it. With that F450, unless it is a high speed blowout, you'll never even feel a tire going slowly flat.

Hitch, I use a 5 ton pintle hook to drag a loaded 1100 lb trailer. overkill? It articulates, it'll never break, I don't have to think about it, it's not expensive. And NO, it doesn't make noise. With about 160 lbs of tongue weight it very rarely rattles. The only time it it does rattle is in very technical terrain and at that it is still only the occasional clunk.

4-5-6 years from now you may find yourself going to Alaska the back way, or wanting to explore the Yukon. You don't want to put yourself in a position of having to rebuild, or build another trailer. You just want to hook up and go.

Just my opinion, but if you have the bucks to purchase, own, maintain and operate an F450 for overlanding exploration then why cheap out on the trailer. Build it right the first time. Maybe settle in on 37"s all the way around. Who knows, it's ultimately your call. You wouldn't believe the number of people that have the balls to walk up to me and ask very sarcastically " hey, do you think your trailer tires are big enough ". To which I always reply, why yes, they are perfect.

Good luck with your build, if you loose a bit of sleep over your planning of it, then you are more than likely gonna get it right. Here is a quick walk around of mine. I have since replaced the slipper springs with longer, conventional eye mounted leafs. I want to beef up the frame a bit with square tubing, then I wouldn't hesitate to travel the washboards way up north. Most importantly though, have fun doing the build.