Help, I have Jeep envy

[2xcrash]

I got a 2021 Zr2 bison over a year ago. I got the Litner rack,level kit in the front 33’ tires, Baja design fog and ditch lights. Im about to do a peak suspension front upper control arm and coils. But I have a problem. I have Jeep envy. My wife has a 2020 Jeep Sahara. I did a 2” lift and 35” tires on 17” methods. I like the look and love the look of a lifted and tricked out Gladiator Mojave.
I live in the Coachella Valley. Lots of desert running. The ZR2 is super comfortable on the road and so far done everything I’ve wanted it too. I did 3/4 of the Mojave road in a day. I just don’t get that feeling looking at my rig compared to a similar Gladiator Mojave.
My biggest worry is how much I hate how my wife’s Jeep drives. My ZR2 is great on long drives, but only 16 mpg.
Throwing it out there for you opinions.

 

[CaliRadoZR2]

I got a 2021 Zr2 bison over a year ago. I got the Litner rack,level kit in the front 33’ tires, Baja design fog and ditch lights. Im about to do a peak suspension front upper control arm and coils. But I have a problem. I have Jeep envy. My wife has a 2020 Jeep Sahara. I did a 2” lift and 35” tires on 17” methods. I like the look and love the look of a lifted and tricked out Gladiator Mojave.
I live in the Coachella Valley. Lots of desert running. The ZR2 is super comfortable on the road and so far done everything I’ve wanted it too. I did 3/4 of the Mojave road in a day. I just don’t get that feeling looking at my rig compared to a similar Gladiator Mojave.
My biggest worry is how much I hate how my wife’s Jeep drives. My ZR2 is great on long drives, but only 16 mpg.
Throwing it out there for you opinions.

Hey coming from 20 Colorado ZR2, overall I love the ZR2s. They are definitely an underdog offroad vehicle but hopefully with the Silverado and 23 Colorado refresh will draw more attention to how capable these vehicles are. You can fit 35s of course but would require either a lift or AEV highmarks coupled with a gear change 4.56 or 4.10 to get some gas mileage back, however I deem 35s not necessary. ZR2s are also amazing at rock crawling and for desert runs get above 25mph on a soft sand wash and you will really see how awesome the DSSVs are.

 

[MOAK]

My brother in law loves his Chevy, so much so that he has gone wild with modifications. 2 inch lift and aftermarket arms up front and a pair of “heavy” old man emu leafs in the rear. It is an impressive sleeper rig and will go just about anywhere my 80 series can go. Except, as he learned, down the face of a washout. Keep your Colorado, when you get jeep envy, find a friend with a Landcruiser, go for a ride, drive it. You’ll be like, OMG, this vehicle is 25 years old? Your jeep envy will dissapate quickly.

 

[DintDobbs]

You all need to grow up. As adults who take control of transportation machines, we are all tasked with the responsibility of understanding physics (which we are taught in school) and how they affect these machines.

The geometry of suspension, how the center of gravity affects maneuvers at high and low speed, the effects of G-forces around an arc, the distribution of weight across a contact surface... We should all know this stuff, at least in the United States.

I never understood the appeal of long wheelbase vehicles like even single cab, short box compact pick-up trucks. No maneuverability, far heavier than ideal. If you have Jeep envy, it's probably because Jeep became a thing by designing its first military jeep for the specific purpose of doing this kind of stuff.

I'll grant you, the modern Jeep Wranglers (descended from the OG) are a great deal more luxurious and comfortable, and MUCH larger and heavier, but the mechanical design centers on the same concept: effectively harness physics to make a vehicle that can traverse all terrain.

That doesn't mean you have to 24" lift/40"tire/SAS everything. But for your own good, please, people, understand what your vehicle of choice was designed for when you decide to use it for some thing else.

Colorado's are nice machines, but far too heavy, long, and low to take on the kind of angles that a Jeep Wrangler can do. No lift, tires, lockers, or winch will ever make a Colorado's suspension design function the way a Wrangler's does. To accomplish that would require a full custom job and a very in-depth understanding of physics. You would also need to consider the weight range of your finished rig when designing your suspension.

To its credit, the Colorado's off-road prowess is now being adapted for military use, in spite of its long wheelbase. It is a very sophisticated design, and excels at what it was designed to do.

Apples to oranges. No Wrangler will ever lug a basketball hoop like a Colorado can, and no Wrangler will ever ride smoothly. At least, not until they go to IFS.

 

[MOAK]

I refuse to grow up, BTW not even my old jeep rubicon could have traversed that ledge. Why did I sell the rubicon 11 years ago? It is not, and could never be an “overlanding truck”, not even close. It wasn’t designed that way. As far as that photo? He made a mistake , as we all sometimes do. BTW, the wheelbase of a 2 door jeep is now 98” the four door is 118” and the gladiator a whopping 137”. The 80 series Landcruiser is 112” , the 70 series is 102” to 125” depending on model, the defender 110 is? 110”. There’s very good reasons that Jeeps are frowned upon as overland vehicles in the world market. Don’t get me wrong, we really enjoyed our little 2 door rubicon, it just wasn’t a good overlander. Did I repeat myself yet again? Peace out!

 

[Mountaintrails71]

I bought my first Jeep at 14 years old. A 1962 Willys pickup. I have had 12 more after that. CJ5’s, flatties, CJ7, 2) YJ’s and a TJ. I sold the last one about 9 years ago and stepped into a Tacoma. I have not looked back. Yes the Jeeps did good off-road because of size, however the components under them are week. The vehicles were not comfortable in long trips and could not haul or tow much of anything. Fun, yes they were fun. Tops off and windshields down, I had a lot of fun. I am much older now. In my 50s and enjoy trips with more comfort. I like to find scenic areas to explore and care less about 35 inch tires but more about reliability and comfort. I have never owned a JK or JL but I have owned a few Chrysler/Dodge vehicles and I won’t own another one. If you want a “Jeep”, then go buy one. If you think that will make your life better, go for it. I will stick to my Yota products. Remember what JEEP stands for…..just empty every pocket.

 

[Murfman]

Check out the Bronco Wildtrak. Made for desert running!

 

[DintDobbs]

@MOAK That's just the thing. Jeeps are excellent light-duty off-roaders, however they aren't really designed to be used for overlanding. Military transport and overlanding have many similarities, but the required tools and expected uses have significant differences.

Very few vehicles that aren't dedicated rock crawlers could jump down a ledge like that and not take a scratch. Thing is, if you're building an overland machine, you can't be doing rock crawler stuff with it. That's my entire point; just, since Jeep envy was the subject of the thread, that's the example I used.

I personally dislike the Jeep Wrangler, as it doesn't suit my performance or practical needs. Regardless, we are all adults and it is our responsibility to select, customize, and operate, our vehicles wisely according to our needs. There is no one perfect solution for all uses, and compromises always have to be made.

P.S. Don't envy Jeeps. If you want one, buy one, and if you don't like it (already said you don't like it) then don't buy one. Toyota seems to be a favorite alternative; a significant portion of the overlanding community favors Land Cruisers and the recent generation of Tacomas and 4Runners. Usually what makes a good overland vehicle comes with off-roading disadvantages in the purist's eye, and the opposite is also true.

 

[leeloo]

So take your wife's Jeep, do a highway trip lets say 150 miles at 70 mph. Stop, take a small break. see how you feel. Go back, and check if you still hear the wind noise when you go to sleep. Think what it will take to drive it over longer distances - either you suck it up or drive like an old lady at the lower permissible limit on the highway.
It is easy to like a Jeep from a distance, another thing to live with it.
On forestry or maintained service roads, it will be worse than IFS vehicles, they can go a lot higher speed on those as well.
On the other hand, you don't need any lift or other modifications for most but the hardest off road trails, makes it all too easy and boring. I come from a Hilux and a Landcruiser Prado, they are always in any top 5 off road vehicles, but the wrangler is in another category.
Wind noise kills me, even after I took it apart and installed sound deadening all over.
Last week I drove 1000 km in one day with head wind on more than 700 km of it. When I arrived I wanted to pull my ears out of my head.
Solved that by buying an off road trailer, legally I can't go over 100 km/h so there you go.

 

[MazeVX]

If the cost doesn't heal your envy then borrow a gladiator and drive it. The solid front axle comes at a price and you will need to invest a significant amount of money into the suspension to make it smooth in the desert in addition to the stuff that you will need to replace to make it last with the 37" tires, your fuel mileage will be worse.
On a side note, this comes from someone who really likes the gladiator and drives a JKU ;-)

 

[Akicita]

I wouldn't trade my ZR2 Bison for anything currently out there for how I use it, so my opinion is subjective. I have taken it nearly everywhere my 2013 10th Anniversary JKU on 35's has gone, and I have never been left behind by friends running Gladiators on 35-37s.

Highway miles slip by in comfort and it has been very reliable over 3 years of heavy and even extreme use in all seasons and conditions.

 

[2xcrash]

Thanks for all the replies. So I know myself well enough that if I don’t keep adding improvements to my truck I’ll trade it in and then regret it. And I do need to be honest with myself on what I want to use my rig for. Overland and desert playing.
She’s going in tomorrow to get the level kit removed and adding the Peak suspension 2.5” level kit with 600# springs and upper control arms. I also have a Trifecta tune coming in this week, next will be a wench, and regearing before getting 35” tires. I’ll get most of this done by summer. Then I’ll be researching better RTT ideas and retire my Smittybuilt RTT.

 

[Moebius01]

It always comes down to what you really plan to use it for. If it's overlanding vs. off-roading, the next question would be the type and the distance to get to the trails. JKUs and JTs are probably some of the easiest vehicles to mod to desired goals, but that comes with a tradeoff. A solid axel will never ride as smooth as IFS no matter what suspension mods you do, but IFS will never have the articulation of a solid axel. So if you're going to be on heavy trails with lots of rock crawling and ledges, Jeeps are definitely good rigs. If you're also looking at long desert trail drives or corrugated roads, you're gonna be bouncing your teeth out, so there may be better options to check.

Personally, I'd love to have a Wrangler or Gladiator I could set up for overlanding to let me take on some of the tougher trails. But, in my case, it's also my daily driver and the overlanding/off-road stuff is going to be maybe 20-25% of the usage. I don't relish the thought of driving a JLU 1200 miles to get to a destination, so I went with something that I'd enjoy the on road stuff with, even while sacrificing some off-road capability. I don't expect much of my overlanding to be where I'd need 37s on a 3" lift, so I'll take my nice WK2 that I can convert from daily driver to overlanding rig when I want, but have the luxury the rest of the time.

 

[tjZ06]

You all need to grow up. As adults who take control of transportation machines, we are all tasked with the responsibility of understanding physics (which we are taught in school) and how they affect these machines.

The geometry of suspension, how the center of gravity affects maneuvers at high and low speed, the effects of G-forces around an arc, the distribution of weight across a contact surface... We should all know this stuff, at least in the United States.

I never understood the appeal of long wheelbase vehicles like even single cab, short box compact pick-up trucks. No maneuverability, far heavier than ideal. If you have Jeep envy, it's probably because Jeep became a thing by designing its first military jeep for the specific purpose of doing this kind of stuff.

I'll grant you, the modern Jeep Wranglers (descended from the OG) are a great deal more luxurious and comfortable, and MUCH larger and heavier, but the mechanical design centers on the same concept: effectively harness physics to make a vehicle that can traverse all terrain.

That doesn't mean you have to 24" lift/40"tire/SAS everything. But for your own good, please, people, understand what your vehicle of choice was designed for when you decide to use it for some thing else.

Colorado's are nice machines, but far too heavy, long, and low to take on the kind of angles that a Jeep Wrangler can do. No lift, tires, lockers, or winch will ever make a Colorado's suspension design function the way a Wrangler's does. To accomplish that would require a full custom job and a very in-depth understanding of physics. You would also need to consider the weight range of your finished rig when designing your suspension.

To its credit, the Colorado's off-road prowess is now being adapted for military use, in spite of its long wheelbase. It is a very sophisticated design, and excels at what it was designed to do.

Apples to oranges. No Wrangler will ever lug a basketball hoop like a Colorado can, and no Wrangler will ever ride smoothly. At least, not until they go to IFS.

If a Colorado has an unacceptably long WB for Overlanding, I guess I'm just effe'd and shouldn't even try...

 

[2xcrash]

You all need to grow up. As adults who take control of transportation machines, we are all tasked with the responsibility of understanding physics (which we are taught in school) and how they affect these machines.

The geometry of suspension, how the center of gravity affects maneuvers at high and low speed, the effects of G-forces around an arc, the distribution of weight across a contact surface... We should all know this stuff, at least in the United States.

I never understood the appeal of long wheelbase vehicles like even single cab, short box compact pick-up trucks. No maneuverability, far heavier than ideal. If you have Jeep envy, it's probably because Jeep became a thing by designing its first military jeep for the specific purpose of doing this kind of stuff.

I'll grant you, the modern Jeep Wranglers (descended from the OG) are a great deal more luxurious and comfortable, and MUCH larger and heavier, but the mechanical design centers on the same concept: effectively harness physics to make a vehicle that can traverse all terrain.

That doesn't mean you have to 24" lift/40"tire/SAS everything. But for your own good, please, people, understand what your vehicle of choice was designed for when you decide to use it for some thing else.

Colorado's are nice machines, but far too heavy, long, and low to take on the kind of angles that a Jeep Wrangler can do. No lift, tires, lockers, or winch will ever make a Colorado's suspension design function the way a Wrangler's does. To accomplish that would require a full custom job and a very in-depth understanding of physics. You would also need to consider the weight range of your finished rig when designing your suspension.

To its credit, the Colorado's off-road prowess is now being adapted for military use, in spite of its long wheelbase. It is a very sophisticated design, and excels at what it was designed to do.

Apples to oranges. No Wrangler will ever lug a basketball hoop like a Colorado can, and no Wrangler will ever ride smoothly. At least, not until they go to IFS.

If a Colorado has an unacceptably long WB for Overlanding, I guess I'm just effe'd and shouldn't even try...

Colorado crew cab has a 10 “ longer wheel base than a 4 door Jeep but 10” less than a gladiator…
So the new springs and upper control arms are in. Raised the truck 2” from stock and rides way nicer that the hockey puck level kit. Can’t wait to get her out this weekend and try it out.

 

[leeloo]

If a Colorado has an unacceptably long WB for Overlanding, I guess I'm just effe'd and shouldn't even try...

I think he talks more about pure off road performance at the last 5 %, when you push vehicles to the limit. Technically, you can overland on a bicycle.

 

[tjZ06]

I think he talks more about pure off road performance at the last 5 %, when you push vehicles to the limit. Technically, you can overland on a bicycle.

Yeah, I was just making the point that I've done and seen more in my Silverado that "is a terrible Overland platform" than moooooost fully kitted out Tacomas with 92 rotopax I see driving around the Bay Area. If you know what you're doing and properly equip your vehicle a long wheelbase isn't a show-stopper, in fact it's rarely even a liability. Would I take my Silvy w/ FWC through the Rubicon? Nope. But does it do everything I ask of it, including some pretty technical, flex-intensive 4-LO, locked/locked work? Yup.

-TJ

 

[orange01z28]

Yeah, I was just making the point that I've done and seen more in my Silverado that "is a terrible Overland platform" than moooooost fully kitted out Tacomas with 92 rotopax I see driving around the Bay Area. If you know what you're doing and properly equip your vehicle a long wheelbase isn't a show-stopper, in fact it's rarely even a liability. Would I take my Silvy w/ FWC through the Rubicon? Nope. But does it do everything I ask of it, including some pretty technical, flex-intensive 4-LO, locked/locked work? Yup.

-TJ

And i've seen it do a lot more than this

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[DintDobbs]

@tjZ06 That was mostly a joke. Nevertheless, I can't imagine even taking my Durango (116" WB) to some of the places I've taken my Explorer 2-door (102" WB) due to length and high-centering issues. Let's not even talk about the 5-ton monster homes that some people use. They'd sink into the ground here long before they even reached the trails. Your terrain might be more conducive to it, or perhaps you (like the majority of those who select a pickup truck) simply find the trade-off worthwhile for other reasons, but I find a short wheelbase very extremely helpful for all off-road situations, and necessary for some.

Much like overhang and clearance, breakover angle is extremely important in some cases and totally negligible in others. If your truck works for you, you're doing it right.

I've never had Jeep envy, but all the big Jeep boyos would laugh at my IFS. I wouldn't think of taking some of my regular routes in a twin straight. They laugh at the grocery store, and cry at the parts store.

@2xcrash The Colorado is a great platform. If it was available as a closed-back, 2-row SUV with about 100-110" wheelbase, I'd probably own one.

 

[tjZ06]

@tjZ06 That was mostly a joke. Nevertheless, I can't imagine even taking my Durango (116" WB) to some of the places I've taken my Explorer 2-door (102" WB) due to length and high-centering issues. Let's not even talk about the 5-ton monster homes that some people use. They'd sink into the ground here long before they even reached the trails. Your terrain might be more conducive to it, or perhaps you (like the majority of those who select a pickup truck) simply find the trade-off worthwhile for other reasons, but I find a short wheelbase very extremely helpful for all off-road situations, and necessary for some.

Much like overhang and clearance, breakover angle is extremely important in some cases and totally negligible in others. If your truck works for you, you're doing it right.

I've never had Jeep envy, but all the big Jeep boyos would laugh at my IFS. I wouldn't think of taking some of my regular routes in a twin straight. They laugh at the grocery store, and cry at the parts store.

@2xcrash The Colorado is a great platform. If it was available as a closed-back, 2-row SUV with about 100-110" wheelbase, I'd probably own one.

My truck's break-over isn't great, but it sits pretty tall so it's not as bad as you might expect. That said, it's not a rock crawler. I love the WB on the WJ (~106" stock, mine is around 108"), I think it's right around "perfect" as a compromise between nimbleness, interior space, ride quality, stability, etc.

-TJ