Ham Newbie Help - Intermountain Intertie and Repeater Networks

[weiln12]

Hey everyone!

So I'm definitely new to this fun hobby but I'm getting to the point I need some help. Especially with Covid and all the groups not meeting it's hard to get started in this since it's really challenging to test and learn without impacting someone else. My first experience with that was getting on a Fusion repeater to join the HRCC room and managed to get yelled at for...something?

So here's my question and looking for help. My question right now is about repeaters and the Intermountain Intertie (AZ/NV/UT/ID repeater network). I have family and friends up in Idaho and I'm in Phoenix and from what I can tell the Intertie can allow us to talk to each other. I'm also wanting to leverage the Intertie this weekend when I drive up to Idaho from Phoenix since I should have coverage from Boulder City all the way to Idaho Falls. But, I've only ever used simplex and I'm not sure how to use the Intertie. Does it mean if I hit any repeater on the Intertie then every repeater on the Intertie broadcasts my conversation? I've read that I need to give everything a second to come up as well. So it's key in...wait a second...speak...wait a second...key out? I've also seen that Phoenix can use Rimlink to tie into the Intertie but there are some codes I need to use to open the connection, but I'm not sure what that means?

Is there some educational material somewhere that I can read or watch that can help me get up to speed on this?

I'll have lots more questions about things like Fusion and digital in the future but my upcoming concerns are around the Intertie and how that all works. I know there are parts of Utah that don't have great cell phone service but it certainly looks like I should have "coverage" via the Intertie.

I just installed a Kenwood TM-D710GA in the truck for APRS and I'll be leveraging that as well.

Thanks!
Nathan

 

[LostInThought]

Hey everyone!

So I'm definitely new to this fun hobby but I'm getting to the point I need some help. Especially with Covid and all the groups not meeting it's hard to get started in this since it's really challenging to test and learn without impacting someone else. My first experience with that was getting on a Fusion repeater to join the HRCC room and managed to get yelled at for...something?

So here's my question and looking for help. My question right now is about repeaters and the Intermountain Intertie (AZ/NV/UT/ID repeater network). I have family and friends up in Idaho and I'm in Phoenix and from what I can tell the Intertie can allow us to talk to each other. I'm also wanting to leverage the Intertie this weekend when I drive up to Idaho from Phoenix since I should have coverage from Boulder City all the way to Idaho Falls. But, I've only ever used simplex and I'm not sure how to use the Intertie. Does it mean if I hit any repeater on the Intertie then every repeater on the Intertie broadcasts my conversation? I've read that I need to give everything a second to come up as well. So it's key in...wait a second...speak...wait a second...key out? I've also seen that Phoenix can use Rimlink to tie into the Intertie but there are some codes I need to use to open the connection, but I'm not sure what that means?

Is there some educational material somewhere that I can read or watch that can help me get up to speed on this?

I'll have lots more questions about things like Fusion and digital in the future but my upcoming concerns are around the Intertie and how that all works. I know there are parts of Utah that don't have great cell phone service but it certainly looks like I should have "coverage" via the Intertie.

I just installed a Kenwood TM-D710GA in the truck for APRS and I'll be leveraging that as well.

Thanks!
Nathan

First, I'm sorry to hear about your experience in the HRCC. I've become accustomed to more experienced operators showing more patience and more willingness to help new hams. But I suppose there's one in every bunch. But let me try to handle the questions one at a time. I use New Mexico's Mega-Link most often so I'll answer w.r.t. that experiece.

• "Does it mean if I hit any repeater on the Intertie then everyrepeater on the Intertie broadcasts my conversation?"
  • Yep - you transmit on the input frequency for the repeater nearest you and all of them repeat the signal on their output frequencies. You listen to the output signal on your nearest repeater's output frequency.
• "But, I've only ever used simplex and I'm not sure how to use the Intertie."
  • Each individual repeater (linked or not) has three frequencies associated with it:
    • the output frequency - this is the freq on which you can listen to the repeater conversations. this is the freq by which the repeater is known or named.
    • the input frequency - conventionally +/-600kHz or +/- 5MHz from the output freq. this the freq on which you transmit, to have the repeater repeater your signal on the output freq.
    • the "tone" frequency - usually a CTCSS tone (a very quiet hum) added to your transmission on the input freq to alert the repeater that your transmission should be repeated.
  • You can find this info on one of several internet resources. I like repeaterbook.com - you can setup a free account using your callsign. You can look up repeaters by state or by band, or by link system. If you search on Intermountain Intertie, you'll get a listing of those repeaters with entries that look something like the following:
    • 
  • This tells us the following:
    • There's a repeater located on Shafer Butte, near Boise, ID operated by WA7FDR.
    • It's OUTPUT freq is 145.1300 MHz - to listen to this repeater, set your radio's VFO to 145.1300 MHz
    • It's INPUT freq is 0.6 MHZ (600kHz) below the input - program your radio's transmit offset to -0.600MHz or 144.5300 Mhz
    • To activate it, program your radio's CTCSS tone to 100Hz
    • When you key your mic, your radio will automatically switch from 145.1300 to 144.5300 and transmit the CTCSS tone activating the repeater
• "I've read that I need to give everything a second to come up as well. So it's key in...wait a second...speak...wait a second...key out?"
  • Some repeaters (especially those on internet linked EchoLink, DStar, Fusion systems) do need short break. The length of the pause will depend on the system. EchoLink needs ~3-5 seconds, others are much faster. Basically, you need to leave these systems a short pause between the end of the previous transmission and the beginning of your transmission. Leave a *little* time between keying your mic and beginning to speak - a half breath is enough. Also note that the repeater may limit the length of your individual transmission to a minute or three so as not to overheat the repeater's electronics.
  • The sequence looks like this:
    • previous transmission completes
    • short pause between transmissions (1-5 seconds depending on linking system)
    • key your mic's PTT - take a mini-pause - begin speaking (there may be a time limit)
    • finish speaking and release your mic's PTT key ending your transmission
• "I've also seen that Phoenix can use Rimlink to tie into the Intertie but there are some codes I need to use to open the connection, but I'm not sure what that means?"
  • Check the webpages for the club or group that operates RimLink.
• "Is there some educational material somewhere that I can read or watch that can help me get up to speed on this?"
  • You'll probably need to reference your radio's manual and the technician class study guide is also helpful, but there are a bunch of YouTube videos as well. Search for "using a 2m repeater".
  • This one is pretty good: YouTubeVideo

Hope this helps.

 

[Prerunner1982]

Jeff did an excellent job explaining some of the nuances of repeaters and linked repeater systems.
To add.... the reason for the short delay between pressing the PTT and speaking is to give all the repeaters in the system a chance to key up since there may be a very short delay from the time you key to the time the repeaters on down the line in the linked system get the signal to key up. If you don't briefly pause the first word or two of your transmission may be cut off. No pause needed after your transmission.

When linking a repeater to a room or node for say a net or something that may tie up the repeater for a period of time it is customary to get permission from the repeater trustee first. I would assume that that may be why you were yelled out, though the grumpy old bastards could have handled it differently.

As far as reference material, the ARRL has a Operating Manual that is pretty good for a new ham. The ARRL has all sorts of books.
For youtube, in addition to HRCC... Ham Nation and Amateur Logic are ok, they have been around awhile so they have covered a lot of topics. AL does a lot of Arduino/Raspberry Pi stuff if you are into that.
Ham Radio 2.0, he does a lot of unboxing/review type videos.
100 watts and a wire is podcast that you may find helpful.
HamRadio360 is not longer produced but ran for about 4 years and may also be worth listening to.

 

[weiln12]

Wow, that is immensely helpful Jeff! I think I had the basics down so I appreciate the depth of your response. Given my trip this weekend I'm putting together the list of repeaters for the Intertie and we'll see how it goes. I'm not really a chatty person so I won't really ever use it for that, but it'll be nice to know I can use it if I need to for something. Especially if I know I have buddies listening that I can reach if needed.

To be clear, HRCC wasn't the one yelling. When I got on a local Fusion repeater I had guys yelling at me for something, I wasn't sure what. I talked to the repeater owner and he wasn't aware that I did anything wrong so it may have been someone being grumpy somewhere I guess? But I haven't ever gone on again. As a tech guy most of the time I can test and learn without impacting anyone else but that's not the case with amateur radio. If I do something stupid on a repeater it affects everyone and not having an elmer standing next to me to show me is a disadvantage right now.

I do watch HRCC and Ham Radio 2.0, HR2.0 does some stuff with DMR (if I'm remembering correctly) and a lot of product videos. I'll check out Ham Nation and Amateur Logic as well. Again, since I'm a tech nerd I definitely want to get into the Pi side and start to do more there. I just picked up a TM-D710GA for the truck so my plan is to bring my Icom 2730a into my office and start building shack. I really think it'd be cool to run equipment for the group just to help out where I can and build some experience. Along with the Pi stuff I want to get my General so I can get into HF, right now specifically APRS on 30M. In my mind that'd be great for situations in the middle of nowhere but I need to reach somebody. I'm sure I can come up with an antenna solution. :)

Thanks all, I really appreciate the assistance!

 

[Prerunner1982]

@weiln12 I am not a chatty person either which is why I enjoy HF. There are contest almost every weekend and sometimes DX (should increase greatly over the next 5yrs) and in either case the exchange is typically short and in the case of contest fairly repetitive.
I enjoy field day quite a bit, going camping, setting up temporary antennas, operating portable off battery/solar, and seeing how many contacts I can make and with what states and such.
In ham radio as I am sure you know or are finding out, there is something for everyone.

 

[weiln12]

Hmmm...what you're describing sounds right up my alley. My wife and I love to get outdoors and any reason is a good one! Last time it was very interesting to see what I could pick up in Coconino National Forest and radio propogation is fascinating. I'll have to do more research into DX and field days, and I've heard bits and pieces about SOTA that sounds intriguing as well. Honestly, stuff like this part of the reason I have a full-size rig, a Tundra, so I can have more space and stuff. Yeah, it's not a rock-crawler, but that's not what I want from it. But it's a lot easier to setup batteries and antennas and radios with a bit more space.

Perhaps it's time for me to join the Friday night net. :)

 

[LostInThought]

If HF field ops interest you, have a look at OH8STN's YouTube channel, where he builds/reviews radios, batteries, solar rigs, antennas, and Pi's for field ops. It's *amazing* what capability he can pack into a small bag.

 

[Boppa's Travels]

Hmm just hit me why it is call amateur radio cuz when to listen to guys that know radios then you feel like an amateur.

 

[Prerunner1982]

@weiln12 feeel free to hit me up if you have any questions.

 

[weiln12]

So this worked out great! I was able to listen to the Intertie for most of the trip from essentially the Hoover Dam all the way to Idaho Falls. Apparently they were doing some work on the repeaters because someone chimed in and asked whoever was keying up and not talking to either talk to stop keying, and that person was in Idaho Falls and I was listening down by St George. It really is cool what is possible!

Oh, and I'm LOVING the TM-D710GA. It's a fantastic radio and very easy to use!