HAM/GMRS

[WGNBSS]

Is there a HAM unit that is dual with GMRS?

 

[DRAX]

Nope, and there will never be one. FCC regulations prohibit it.

 

[Kent R]

As DRAX said it is not allowed.

GMRS has specific channels that are assigned frequencies and have the ability to use tones, this makes it very simple for people to use without any real education or regulation. Ham needs to be regulated due to the complexity of the spectrum.

 

[Sparksalot]

Another basic reason for not being able to combine the two is this: GMRS is channelized frequencies, ham radio is frequency agile with one band exception. The two are not readily combined from a regulatory standpoint.

That’s the same reason a combination of ham and CB is not available.

 

[Speric]

what about the "programmed" handheld Baofengs?

 

[Shawn686]

There are, but the sad hams dont like you to talk about them

They are not legal, but you will never have an issue there has never been a single person fined by the FCC, in their entire history, for using a no complying radio for personal use. The only fines that has ever been given out are to people that have used them to jamm frequencies and that type of thing

Also I forgot to add there are hundreds of, both hand held and vech mount, radios that have this capability

Shawn

 

[665.0coupe]

what about the "programmed" handheld Baofengs?

Yes, out of the box Baofengs will transmit and receive on both HAM and GMRS frequencies.

A lot of radios can also have the MARS mod done and open up the frequency range they can transmit and receive on.

 

[DRAX]

what about the "programmed" handheld Baofengs?

What about those cheap, crappy radios? ;) A radio having the frequencies opened up to ones they're not supposed to use doesn't make them valid/legal for use. There have been resellers/distributors that have gotten into trouble for selling such radios.

FCC Cites Baofeng Importer for Illegally Marketing Unauthorized RF Devices

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

About the only time the FCC will get involved with an individual is if an individual purposefully interferes with other peoples' transmissions.

There is also https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-384085A1.pdf - ham operator interfered with firefighting comms, not meaning to cause problems but now they're in hot water for interfering and unauthorized transmissions. Of course, this isn't the same as using a ham radio for GMRS, but devices that are 'unlocked' do have the ability to operate on frequencies outside what is permitted by the FCC either due to radio classification or operator license limitations.

 

[Kent R]

what about the "programmed" handheld Baofengs?

Are you talking about the Baofengs that are GMRS only? If so I have not heard anything bad about them.
Their cheep Ham handheld is an issue, I have a post about why in the comms section.

 

[Speric]

What about those cheap, crappy radios? ;) A radio having the frequencies opened up to ones they're not supposed to use doesn't make them valid/legal for use. There have been resellers/distributors that have gotten into trouble for selling such radios.

Ha! not saying they're valid/legal but they are being used. A lot. And they are cheap. crappy? meh, they seem to do the job. Also anyone can buy one of Amazon, download the software and "update" it to work on both GMRS and HAM frequencies.

 

[Speric]

Are you talking about the Baofengs that are GMRS only? If so I have not heard anything bad about them.
Their cheep Ham handheld is an issue, I have a post about why in the comms section.

yes, but you can program them to run HAM too. disclaimer: not "legally" but it's a common and easy update.

 

[Kent R]

yes, but you can program them to run HAM too. disclaimer: not "legally" but it's a common and easy update.

No fixed GMRS

 

[M Rose]

yes, but you can program them to run HAM too. disclaimer: not "legally" but it's a common and easy update.

No you can’t program a GMRS radio to work on Amateur 2m/70cm frequencies. A Type 95e compliment device lacks the processing circuits to work high enoug (or low enough) to transmit in the UHF band and no way to receive in the VHF band. However an Amateur Radio is very broad banded and with a little tweaking some can be opened up to transmit within the GMRS frequency range, however unless you are Military Auxiliary Service certified using your radio under the MARS guidelines it is very illegal to transmit with a non Type 95e compliant device.

As for Baofeng UV5R type radios, Baofeng no longer sells an unlocked radio in the US (as of 2021). If a person finds a UV5R Type radio that is sold as an “Amateur Radio” that is unlocked outside of United States Amateur Radio operating privileges (ie MURS, GMRS/FRS, ect) with a date of manufacture after 2021, it is the responsibility of the consumer to A) report the radio seller of the said transceiver to the FCC, B) Either destroy the said transceiver, or don’t transmit outside of the frequencies the transceiver is designed to use.

People using equipment outside of their license privileges has become a huge problem, and while the FCC themselves aren’t issuing warnings or citations, the Volunteer Mentors are cracking down and certain LEO have started up “special” task forces to help enforce band privilege violations.
These task forces aren’t sitting around looking for people transmitting out of band, excessive, power, or type certified equipment. What they are looking for is blatant disregard to the laws and operating practices that interfere with communication such as the case in the article posted above. I’m personally involved in one such task force as a volunteer. I help provide training on how to locate interference, how to properly educate the offender, and finally how to properly report the offending station to the FCC. Since this task force was set up 6 months ago, we have had to contact 25 stations, issued 20 warnings, 4 stationed confiscated and 2 persons have been arrested (currently facing a whole lot of felony charges with fines into the millions of dollars). You can see the math above is 26 when I stated we contacted 25 stations… this is because the two arrested wouldn’t claim ownership of the offending station (they were in a vehicle using a handy talkie to remote into a 2500 watt pirate station).

my point is with us cracking down on these huge offenders, it’s only a matter of time before there is a crackdown on the use of frequencies outside of operating privileges with uncertified equipment for the frequencies used. IE using an amateur radio to transmit on the GMRS channels.

To boil it down even better… If you want to talk on GMRS frequencies get a GMRS license AND a GMRS radio. If you want to talk on Amateur Radio Frequencies, get an amateur radio license and buy or build a radio within the parameters of FCC type 95c.

 

[DRAX]

Related to unlicensed use, when we were in Colorado this summer I was monitoring the 2m national calling frequency and heard a number of people communicating casually to others in their group. No call signs ever given. Seemed like people were just buying radios online, discovered the national calling frequency, and then decided to just use it however they wanted. This was the first time I'd experienced such a thing, let alone multiple times.

 

[Frdmskr]

So there are no type accepted ham radios. So long as they meet Part 15 and Part 90 they can be sold as a ham radio. Don’t forget hams build their own stuff so no external entity checks that amp or transmitter you build. Though if you have a dirty transmitter everyone will let you know fast.

For GMRS Legally no. In practicality the commercial UHF radios (Part 90) surpass GMRS requirements (and cover ham bands with the right split) except for channel limitations, so long as you keep the power down Under 50w ERP, I have never heard anyone get busted for a clean signal from a Part 90 radio.

That being said, it is technically not legal. So there is that.

 

[DRAX]

So there are no type accepted ham radios. So long as they meet Part 15 and Part 90 they can be sold as a ham radio. Front forget hams build their own stuff so no externally entity checks that amp or transmitter you build. Though if you have a dirty transmitter everyone will let you know fast.

For GMRS Legally no. In practicality the commercial UHF radios (Part 90) surpass GMRS requirements (and cover ham bands with the right split) except for channel limitations, so long as you keep the power down Under 50 ERP, I have never heard anyone get busted for a clean signal from a Part 90 radio.

That being said, it is technically not legal. So there is that.

I think that (highlighted above) is the key, people that operate modified radios on frequencies outside their approved bands don't stand out as being problematic. I don't think anyone would even know if someone were on a GMRS radio or modified ham radio on GMRS frequencies as long as they operated within the power limits of GMRS. They would basically sound the same so the only way to know would be if someone physically saw someone else operating on GMRS frequencies with a ham radio and decided to report them.

That doesn't make it ok in the eyes of the law or the FCC, nor does that mean the regs should be ignored and people should do whatever they want because they won't get caught. It's the spirit of amateur radio to push the limits but not break them.

 

[Sparksalot]

It's the spirit of amateur radio to push the limits but not break them.

There’s a song about that.

 

[Speric]

As for Baofeng UV5R type radios, Baofeng no longer sells an unlocked radio in the US (as of 2021). If a person finds a UV5R Type radio that is sold as an “Amateur Radio” that is unlocked outside of United States Amateur Radio operating privileges (ie MURS, GMRS/FRS, ect) with a date of manufacture after 2021, it is the responsibility of the consumer to A) report the radio seller of the said transceiver to the FCC, B) Either destroy the said transceiver, or don’t transmit outside of the frequencies the transceiver is designed to use.

People are people and very few are going to be doing A) or B) unless your a HAM hobbyist. But most just want to talk to vehicle in front of them and aren't at all interested in the regulations. I kinda get it. I'm not a fan of e-bikes on the trails. They aren't even allowed on most state park trails. You can get a ticket. Most on an e-bike on the trails don't really care, they just want to ride a bike on the trails. But it bugs me as an old school, curmudgeon "hobbyist" to see them on the trail. Do I report it, or take their bike and destroy it? No. Do the authorities know this is happening? yes.

To boil it down even better… If you want to talk on GMRS frequencies get a GMRS license AND a GMRS radio. If you want to talk on Amateur Radio Frequencies, get an amateur radio license and buy or build a radio within the parameters of FCC type 95c.

This all sounds good in theory, but if people can get both in 1 device instead of buying two, a lot people are going to do that. Again, they're not interested in HAM as a hobby, they just want to talk to the person in the vehicle in front of them. People are already dumping their Garmin/Zoleos for the new iPhone with satellite connectivity.

I'm not saying it's right, but human nature tends to do what it's going to do regardless of the regs with a low risk of getting caught.

 

[M Rose]

I'm not saying it's right, but human nature tends to do what it's going to do regardless of the regs with a low risk of getting caught.

Our job as radio operators (CB, FRS, GMRS, MURS, Amateur) is to make sure people are informed of the regulations and are adhering to them. One of the very first things I learned in “Hunter Safety” when I was 6 years old was, •Ignorance of the Law is No Excuse”. While the instructor was talking about laws regarding hunting, it is pertinent here in Overlanding. Being ignorant of the law isn’t going to help you when you break the law and are caught.

When we become members of Overland Bound, we hold our selves to a higher standard. We agree to Leave No Trace, and Tread Lightly. This doesn’t just pertain to, nor is it limited to, our forest and trail systems, but to our whole natural resource ecosystem, which the airwaves are also a part of. Overland Bound members put together classes and events to help train newcomers to the hobby in safe and ethical practices inorder to enjoy the great outdoors. Part of this is training on how to properly use radio equipment.

If a person doesn’t want to get their amateur radio license, that’s up to them. BUT they better have a license for the radio service they wish to use, and the proper station equipment. I personally don’t care what radio service a person chooses. I only care that they are operating within the guidelines (and license) for that service.
just like the NFS is trying to close more public road and trail systems, the FCC is trying to take away more of our airspace as well using the same kind of propaganda that the NFS is using showing the bad side of the radio spectrum. IE pirate radio stations, transmissions outside of licensed frequencies, jamming stations, and many other ways the airwaves are being abused. The same strategy that we are using to inform people of proper trail educate and land conservation is the same strategy we need to implore in order to keep the airwaves open for private use for future generations.

 

[DRAX]

I'm not saying it's right, but human nature tends to do what it's going to do regardless of the regs with a low risk of getting caught.

It's that selfish/entitled attitude that is going to be the end of us as a society and planet, people not caring about anyone or anything but themselves and what they want right now. Not sure how we got to this point, but society needs a serious course correction ASAP as we're quickly approaching the point of no return.

Look at what all of the "deleted diesel" owners have done. I'm sure they thought "I'm just one person, what's the big deal?" and didn't even bother to think about the big picture or how individuals add up to a large group. Not only is the EPA going after the companies that sold the tunes and parts (and fining them tens of millions of dollars), but it gives diesels a bad name/image which then results in elected officials pushing for even more stringent emissions requirements that are killing diesels in the US.

If people don't start being educated and start caring about things other than themselves then we're doomed.