Gmrs Distress call protocol.

[smritte]

As GMRS gained popularity, this is something that concerned me the most. No common or call channel to use in emergency's. I spend quite a bit of time wandering around in the desert areas out here. When I'm out, I pay attention to what channels and frequencies are being used. In my area most of the people I hear are on 146.460 2m, 16, 17, 18 GMRS with 16 being most common. I also run my GMRS hand held on scan to see whos out there if I don't hear anyone.

With that said as popular as GMRS and overland traveling is, there really needs to be a "call" channel set up. Out here GMRS is either overly crowded with people talking over each other or there's nothing. The crowded times aren't the problem, its the quiet days. A common or call channel would give people like myself something to monitor. It would be a big undertaking to push something like this forward. One would want the major GMRS manufactures buy in as well as everyone related. There's already simple "how to use the radio" instructions. Add a main call/emergency channel to the sheet. Years ago, something like this had CB channel 9 as a designated channel.

I know this is a bit off from the OP's question but it is a legitimate issue.

 

[M Rose]

I am a little surprised that there isn’t a dedicated channel, official or not, for emergencies. Seems like a forum of this magnitude and influence could turn the tide on that and make it happen unofficially at least.

You do make some valid points, especially about maintaining contact with one person Unless yielded. I can see a group of people, well intended no doubt, cause an absolute cluster with radio traffic.
thank you for your reply.

For GMRS, there isn’t enough bandwidth to set aside one Chanel for emergency traffic… besides GMRS wasn’t and isn’t intended for emergency communication. For amateur radio there are dedicated frequencies for emergency traffic, they just depend on your region… ie Region 7, the 80m frequency of 3.955 and the national calling frequencies are set aside for Emergency communication, and in North East Oregon there are over 20 VHF repeaters actively monitored for AERES, RACES, and SkyWarn. However only 1 GMRS repeater which is not monitored (it’s privately owned and no communication is allowed on that repeater outside of its intended party). Most of these repeaters have autopatch capabilities meaning a member of the appropriate emergency service can patch the repeater directly to the county 911 dispatch center.

@kunstmilch As for protocol. The reason there isn’t a set protocol for the general public is because the amount of training involved the GP just don’t care enough to learn and each agency uses their own protocols. ARES and SkyWarn (I can’t speak on behalf of RACES because I’m not affiliated with nor have the knowledge of their whole system), fallow the FEMA incident command protocols and procedures. There is over 800 hours of training for the FEMA classes.
Overland Bound can’t set up their own unofficial protocol and set aside a set of frequencies for emergency services because we don’t have the infrastructure to build such a service. We would need wide coverage of linked 2m/70CM repeaters tied into local emergency systems, every OB member would then have to be required to get a General Amateur Radio License and become familiar with WinLink forms, Sending messages via VARA, JS8CAL, WSPR, and APRS. While all of these services are available to Technicians, they don’t always work in remote locations, where there is a larger chance of getting out on the lower armature bands.

Lastly, @OTH Overland @Ubiety make some very good comments. Emergency SatComs (PLB) is the best means to establish connection to get help.

Overland Bound is trying to integrate APRS into the OB1 App which would allow an SOS broadcast out to both Overland Bound Members and the APRS network, but again you would have to have the appropriate equipment and licenses to use OB1 as a radio interface for emergency communication.

 

[M Rose]

As GMRS gained popularity, this is something that concerned me the most. No common or call channel to use in emergency's. I spend quite a bit of time wandering around in the desert areas out here. When I'm out, I pay attention to what channels and frequencies are being used. In my area most of the people I hear are on 146.460 2m, 16, 17, 18 GMRS with 16 being most common. I also run my GMRS hand held on scan to see whos out there if I don't hear anyone.

With that said as popular as GMRS and overland traveling is, there really needs to be a "call" channel set up. Out here GMRS is either overly crowded with people talking over each other or there's nothing. The crowded times aren't the problem, its the quiet days. A common or call channel would give people like myself something to monitor. It would be a big undertaking to push something like this forward. One would want the major GMRS manufactures buy in as well as everyone related. There's already simple "how to use the radio" instructions. Add a main call/emergency channel to the sheet. Years ago, something like this had CB channel 9 as a designated channel.

I know this is a bit off from the OP's question but it is a legitimate issue.

Unfortunately there cannot be a “call” Chanel for GMRS… the band is too narrow which is why the GMRS band was created in the first place. It is not nor was it ever meant to be used as an emergency radio service. CB Chanel 9 was used for interagency communication before the CB band was ever allocated. And instead of changing thousands of emergency services to different frequencies Channel 9 was adopted as the national emergency frequency. Also GMRS is not allowed to be linked to public telephone networks… which CB channel 9 is allowed to be linked to public telephone services.

 

[Downs]

Have never heard the term "Pan Pan" till I opened this thread. And I've been dabbling in radios since I was a kid. Anywho, if you're really worried about emergency comms, pick up a PLB. If it's just you, and you're hurt, do you think you'll be able to string up what you need for an HF rig to be useful over long distances, would you use HF enough to stay proficient in it? There may or may not be anyone listening on the radio, no matter what service you're using.

There's always someone on the other end of a PLB transmission. A one time cost to buy the PLB, registration with the COSPAS-SARSAT system is free, and you're in business. Get device, deploy built in antenna, push button. Done.

Or you can "spin the dial" and hope for the best. I'm not saying don't have radios, but if your primary concern is emergency help, PLB trumps all the other options.

 

[M Rose]

It’s a valid discussion and I do agree with you. As I stated above, it did surprise me there was not an official emergency channel already designated, I just assumed there would be. As to how one can be created, that would be a large undertaking but one absolutely worth doing in my humble opinion. Being somewhat new to overlanding this may seem painfully naive, but if the powers that be on this forum, along with the other forum heads, collectively decided channel X is what we’re gonna use, then met with the big players (Midland comes to mind) I can only imagine their connections and friendships with others in this industry could make it happen. let the manufacturers navigate FCC waters and government red tape. Overlanding aside, with society in general being more anxious and safety and security on everyone’s minds, This is a VERY easy sell. Count me, my 2001 Sequoia and my Baofeng in.

Let’s go with your thought on setting a side a single channel on GMRS for emergency operations… who is going to monitor it, how are we going to tie it into the emergency services, who is going to set up, maintain, and be in control of the needed repeaters, also there is a limit on how many repeaters can be linked.

Since maximum effective distance over flat ground without obstruction is 80 miles on 50w, you are talking roughly 360 miles max range of a linked repeater system. You won’t even get full coverage over the state of Kansas.

There are several reasons this can’t happen. If you want a radio service for emergency communication get your amateur radio license this is what the service was set aside for.

 

[kunstmilch]

I have spent many years as a volunteer in SAR and the fire service and been involved in aiding lost and injured folks. My best recommendation is to above all be prepared, its not often you find well prepared people in need of help in the first place, but accidents and emergencies do happen to even the best prepared. I am of the camp that except for Mayday and SOS to get someones attention, just utilizing clear basic speach is the best option as it does not require either party to know special terms or procedures, once you have someones attention, just explain what you need. I do recommend giving your location out as soon as possible in the conversation in case radios fail, or propegation of signal degrades, then they at least know where to look for you. If possible allways repeat back instructions, numbers or critical info so the other party can be sure you heard it correctly. For both HAM and GMRS, repeaterbook.com and its phone app version provides a wealth of searchable information for both services. Searching through the database for repeaters located in a radius around where you intend to travel before you leave and then either programming them into your radios in advance, or at the very least writing down the information such as frequency, offset, tones etc. so you have it in the field when you don’t have service can be one of the best ways of reaching out if you are in a valley somewhere and can hit a tower on a ridge somewhere. Trying different frequencies, or different radio types can help as some may reach farther or have more folks listening in. As mentioned earlier, keep your radio on so those coming to help can contact you, if you have limited battery power, let the person on the other end know that, and that you will turn your radio on once an hour on the hour for five minutes as a check in. Once you have called for help, stay put unless you are directed to move or safety requires it (can’t tell you how many times we had extended rescues due to the subject trying to help by coming to us, and we end up playing cat and mouse). Radios are a great tool, but in mountainous terrain and remote locations they are of limited use without repeaters unless some is close. The Garmin In Reach and other satellite devices or PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) provide a reliable long distance emergency communication that automatically transmit your location as soon as they are activated. The PLB is more of the calvary is coming device for life-or-death type situations, but the Garmin and similar devices let you send a text to someone to bring you a spare part or push the button and text with a dispatch center if needs are more critical. Carrying a signal mirror, whistle, and bright flashlights are other ways of gaining attention if you are in an emergency situation, mirror flashes can be seen for many miles.

No lies or bad information detected here. lol.

I have no experience with search and rescue in the manner you speak, but am familiar with various SOP for emergency situations and have to train (currently im out on disability and am in process of medical retirement) with police and first responders at my university, I could say this though, I have found in my own experience, that most people (and this doesn't matter if they are intelligent trained etc [unless they keep up with the training obviously]) lose their ability to think straight in a situation they havent been in before. Hell the number of times people have caught on fire and forgot stop drop and roll amazes me. But I was thinking even just a basic SOP for what to do if you hear someones distress call as I think there are a lot of people who just wouldn't really know. These are all basics of course, but having a checklist for each role in a situation would likely do well.

 

[kunstmilch]

I dont like the idea for a set channel only for distress calls, Id rather have a set channel for the community and then use that in distress, more likely to hit up a member...but even if you did just for the community then id always feel like I needed to keep it there in case someone was trying to reach out.

As well all this would be unofficial anyway. but having a channel that we tend to use for on road traffic and then one for off highway use, it might help with less hunting and pecking, then again each group going out sets that up within their own caravan so.

 

[M Rose]

Back to Protocol:
It’s simple…. “Break Break Break” that’s it… Break means stop, listen, critical information incoming.

if no response or you’re being ignored, repeat “BREAK BREAK BREAK “ with more imfacis one the breaks, fallow second set of breaks with “Emergency, Emergency, Emergency”. Once connection has been made state your name (call sign if appropriate) your exact location and the nature of your emergency.

In example:
Me is me, RO is radio Operator

Me: Break break break
RO: Pause For Breaker
RO: go for Breaker
Me: W7FSB, Mike Rose Corner of FS Road 2036 and FS 2036-700, Vehicle slid down side of mountain, wife and two dogs trapped.
RO: Copy Mike, Vehicle slid off mountain at FSR 2036,700 intersection, Stand by
RO: W7FSB are you still there?
Me: yes W7FSB here waiting
RO: are you in need of medical attention
Me: I hit my head but seam fine
RO: Condition of your wife; I have emergency services on the line now; Relay
Me: Unsure of wife’s condition, I can’t reach the vehicle.
RO: description of vehicle
Me: Black Toyota 4Runner
RO: Can you see the vehicle?
Me: Yes, I am on the side of the road, and I can see the driver side rear tire apx 200 feet below me.
RO: can you reach the vehicle on foot?
Me: No
RO: can you see a road or trail below the vehicle
Me: No
RO: stay calm help is on the way, should be arriving within 20 minutes. Stand by
Me: Standing by
Me: The vehicle just slid another 75 feet down the mountain; a vehicle has stopped and has started offering aid. I had them turn around and drive back down to the first pullout from me. They are in a red Dodge Pickup with Roof Top Tent.
RO: Copy; Red Dodge Truck, RTT, parked along side the road corner before your location; Relayed.
Me: Rgr
Me: both driver from truck and first responders here on scene, standing by.
RO: Standing By

in this scenario I wasn’t hurt, but my wife’s condition was unknown. I stayed on the radio and near the radio until help arrived. The RO was relaying me into dispatch. I didn’t use abbreviations, while RO was. Speak clearly without Abriviations to get your information a crossed, the RO can use abriviations to convey they understood the information to pass along. Lastly The RO kept monitoring after first responders came on scene in case there was more information to pass back to dispatch.

 

[M Rose]

I dont like the idea for a set channel only for distress calls, Id rather have a set channel for the community and then use that in distress, more likely to hit up a member...but even if you did just for the community then id always feel like I needed to keep it there in case someone was trying to reach out.

CB Channel 16, GMRS channel 15, HAM 146.460

OB Approved - Overland Bound Comms Frequency Guide

The Overland Bound community has settled on some common "calling" frequencies for the most common radio types. These are meant to be a starting point for making contact with a Overland Bound members. If your local region already has other generally accepted practices, you may want stick with...

www.overlandbound.com

 

[kunstmilch]

Back to Protocol:
It’s simple…. “Break Break Break” that’s it… Break means stop, listen, critical information incoming.

if no response or you’re being ignored, repeat “BREAK BREAK BREAK “ with more imfacis one the breaks, fallow second set of breaks with “Emergency, Emergency, Emergency”. Once connection has been made state your name (call sign if appropriate) your exact location and the nature of your emergency.

In example:
Me is me, RO is radio Operator

Me: Break break break
RO: Pause For Breaker
RO: go for Breaker
Me: W7FSB, Mike Rose Corner of FS Road 2036 and FS 2036-700, Vehicle slid down side of mountain, wife and two dogs trapped.
RO: Copy Mike, Vehicle slid off mountain at FSR 2036,700 intersection, Stand by
RO: W7FSB are you still there?
Me: yes W7FSB here waiting
RO: are you in need of medical attention
Me: I hit my head but seam fine
RO: Condition of your wife; I have emergency services on the line now; Relay
Me: Unsure of wife’s condition, I can’t reach the vehicle.
RO: description of vehicle
Me: Black Toyota 4Runner
RO: Can you see the vehicle?
Me: Yes, I am on the side of the road, and I can see the driver side rear tire apx 200 feet below me.
RO: can you reach the vehicle on foot?
Me: No
RO: can you see a road or trail below the vehicle
Me: No
RO: stay calm help is on the way, should be arriving within 20 minutes. Stand by
Me: Standing by
Me: The vehicle just slid another 75 feet down the mountain; a vehicle has stopped and has started offering aid. I had them turn around and drive back down to the first pullout from me. They are in a red Dodge Pickup with Roof Top Tent.
RO: Copy; Red Dodge Truck, RTT, parked along side the road corner before your location; Relayed.
Me: Rgr
Me: both driver from truck and first responders here on scene, standing by.
RO: Standing By

in this scenario I wasn’t hurt, but my wife’s condition was unknown. I stayed on the radio and near the radio until help arrived. The RO was relaying me into dispatch. I didn’t use abbreviations, while RO was. Speak clearly without Abriviations to get your information a crossed, the RO can use abriviations to convey they understood the information to pass along. Lastly The RO kept monitoring after first responders came on scene in case there was more information to pass back to dispatch.

yeah thats fine, and I think there are a lot of people who are new to all this that just having something like this would invariably be helpful. I can imagine you being calm and doing just this, I can also imagine people doing a lot of yelling and saying they dont know where they are and they never told anyone where they were going or when to expect them back. This is good stuff.

 

[M Rose]

. But I was thinking even just a basic SOP for what to do if you hear someones distress call as I think there are a lot of people who just wouldn't really know. These are all basics of course, but having a checklist for each role in a situation would likely do well.

This I agree with… and that is why I’m a member of SAR, ARES, and SkyWarn, and train three times a week for assisting with emergency radio communication. It’s also part of the Technician test pool.

 

[M Rose]

yeah thats fine, and I think there are a lot of people who are new to all this that just having something like this would invariably be helpful. I can imagine you being calm and doing just this, I can also imagine people doing a lot of yelling and saying they dont know where they are and they never told anyone where they were going or when to expect them back. This is good stuff.

Yes I would be calm… but then again I was RTO in very stressful life and death situations where it wasn’t one life on the line but many many lives on the line.

In the situation you describe, it’s the RO’s duty to stay calm and help calm down the individual in distress.

@Prerunner1982 and myself are the US communication specialists for Overland Bound. I will get ahold of John and we will work out some kind of protocol to write up…

the biggest thing is practice practice practice

At your coffee shop meetups have someone write up an emergency a scenario. Assign one person to be the RO, One Person to be dispatch, and one person to be the person in distress. Make a simple cue card for both the person in distress and the RO. Go through the scenario with both parties reading from their cue cards and have Dispatch add in questions and comments. After the first person in distress goes through, do it again for the next person until everyone has a chance to go through the scenario in each position… have one person that feels confident in their skills to act as an observer to offer on the spot critiques to the exercise. You can use a couple of HTs turned off (key here is keep them off) for the exercise to use as props. Dispatch and RO can use cell phones as props to show the relay between dispatch and RO.

 

[M Rose]

@Ryker and @kunstmilch , here is one reason black and white why GMRS is not the correct tool for making a distress call.
GMRS can’t be auto patched to 911 dispatch, and since it can’t be linked into a network by FCC laws and protocols, it’s just not done. However, if all you have is a FRS/GMRS radio, fallow the amateur radio procedures. I found the fallowing easy to use document that explains how to not only make a distress call, but what you are supposed to do if you hear a distress call. Even though the article was written for a mature radio, the same principles apply up to patching the call. Instead of patching the call, the responding party has to dial 911. Now here is the sucky part… if calling party makes contact to responding party, but responding party is outside of cell service, what then… hopefully responding party has a PLB or armature radio, or there is a third party to help relay that is within cell service. This is why I preach getting your General Radio License as well as a PLB.
Any ways here is the article I found.

How to Operate a Ham Radio in an Emergency - dummies

All emergencies are different, of course, so no single step-by-step procedure for your ham radio is always going to be useful. But here are some solid general p

www.dummies.com

 

[Jim SoG]

OF note, many offroad groups use GMRS Ch 16 (462.5750) as their channel and it is a 50w channel, I would for sure broadcast on that channel, and others.

Also I would not rely on ANY radio, I use a Garmin In Reach, no need for a signal as it uses sat. Zoleo is another sat comm device.

Jim

 

[Ubiety]

Also I would not rely on ANY radio, I use a Garmin In Reach, no need for a signal as it uses sat. Zoleo is another sat comm device.

This. (mentioned by others as well)

 

[Downs]

OF note, many offroad groups use GMRS Ch 16 (462.5750) as their channel and it is a 50w channel, I would for sure broadcast on that channel, and others.

Also I would not rely on ANY radio, I use a Garmin In Reach, no need for a signal as it uses sat. Zoleo is another sat comm device.

Jim

I was going to mention this. 16 is another very common Jeep/4x4 channel to use with GMRS. I'm guessing it's a carry over from CB and the whole 4x4=16 thing. Would be worth making a call out on that channel if you were going to be doing emergency call outs.

 

[smritte]

Unfortunately there cannot be a “call” Chanel for GMRS… the band is too narrow which is why the GMRS band was created in the first place. It is not nor was it ever meant to be used as an emergency radio service. CB Chanel 9 was used for interagency communication before the CB band was ever allocated. And instead of changing thousands of emergency services to different frequencies Channel 9 was adopted as the national emergency frequency. Also GMRS is not allowed to be linked to public telephone networks… which CB channel 9 is allowed to be linked to public telephone services.

I know. I'm totally aware of the protocol which is based on an out of date system. The fact that there are so few channels makes it even harder. As I stated, to make this happen would be a bit of an undertaking. You "can" designate a call channel but based on old regulations, you cannot make it an emergency channel.

If you were around in the late 60's, early 70's, you would know CB was actually for business. I want to say I got my CB license in 72 ish. By the late 70's protocols were changed into what we have today. One of them was opening up more bandwidth due to over crowding and popularity.
So yes, things can be changed but its not easy.

 

[Ryker]

Let’s go with your thought on setting a side a single channel on GMRS for emergency operations… who is going to monitor it, how are we going to tie it into the emergency services, who is going to set up, maintain, and be in control of the needed repeaters, also there is a limit on how many repeaters can be linked.

Since maximum effective distance over flat ground without obstruction is 80 miles on 50w, you are talking roughly 360 miles max range of a linked repeater system. You won’t even get full coverage over the state of Kansas.

There are several reasons this can’t happen. If you want a radio service for emergency communication get your amateur radio license this is what the service was set aside for.

You obviously make some valid points. I readily admit I’m no radio expert so I guess file my idea under “good intentions”.

 

[OTH Overland]

No lies or bad information detected here. lol.

I have no experience with search and rescue in the manner you speak, but am familiar with various SOP for emergency situations and have to train (currently im out on disability and am in process of medical retirement) with police and first responders at my university, I could say this though, I have found in my own experience, that most people (and this doesn't matter if they are intelligent trained etc [unless they keep up with the training obviously]) lose their ability to think straight in a situation they havent been in before. Hell the number of times people have caught on fire and forgot stop drop and roll amazes me. But I was thinking even just a basic SOP for what to do if you hear someones distress call as I think there are a lot of people who just wouldn't really know. These are all basics of course, but having a checklist for each role in a situation would likely do well.

I had a fire chief tell me many years ago when I got promoted to Lieutenant, “Just remember never to make the emergency in the cab bigger than the one you are going to” That word of wisdom still comes to mind if I start to get wound up or let the adrenaline get the better of me in an emergency situation and has served me well. Another good one was from Outdoor Life author Patrick McManus where he describes the “Modified Stationary Panic” Where when you realize you are lost, you just run around in a circle until you are tired, then you have exhausted your panic and are still in the same place and not more lost.