Gas vs Diesel

[Snoopy]

Alright, I don't know if I am posting this in the correct section, but here it goes. My wife and I are beginning to discuss long term retirement plans (yes, this is a long term discussion) and have decided that our next rig build (after we complete the current Tacoma build) will be intended as a 'dream' build that will allow us to travel from Prudhoe Bay to Punta Arenas. As an initial thought, I immediately went to a diesel (Ram 2500 to be exact) as the base of the build, but I wonder if that might prove to be too big of a platform. What are some thoughts on this? Should I stick with the larger diesel platforms or can I consider some of the smaller gas platforms?

 

[OffroadTreks]

I have a number of friends who have traveled down south. They all chose gasser as it's easier for SA trips. Apparently, modern diesel with DEF would be a problem. Becuase no DEF and two sulfurer.

 

[Snoopy]

I have a number of friends who have traveled down south. They all chose gasser as it's easier for SA trips. Apparently, modern diesel with DEF would be a problem. Becuase no DEF and two sulfurer.

Thank you. I wondered about both of those things. I have done a some reading on the sulfur question and everything is torn between it was absolutely no problem to stay away from diesel. Thanks for your input.

 

[Daryl 32]

At Overland Land Expo this year there where a few world overlanders at or giving classes some about vehicle builds. Two I remember were based on new Ram HDs one 2500 and one 3500 they all chose diesels for the mileage and low end torque, they did not bring up the new DEF issue. Another couple have been around the world twice "Turtle Expeditions" drive a built older Super Duty without DEF ( https://turtleexpedition.com/vehicles/turtle-v/ ).

Plus there seems to be some bad reviews on the newer diesels that need DEF not lasting as long as the older ones without it.

We have a 1999 Super Duty with a 7.3 diesel and when it comes to going slow crawling up lose rocky trails it is a beast. Just hold it at 1200 rpm in first gear, no 4wd low yet, and it just grunts up the road.

Personally I will always go with diesel just because of the low end torque. If I were you I would look into an older full size diesel, you will pay way less for it, and slowly rebuild it and then old fit it for overland.

 

[Mad Garden Gnome]

Due to the emissions equipment on modern diesels, I would be hesitant to take a modern diesel on your trip. A pre emissions diesel could be made to be very dependable, if you are willing to pick up something a bit older and go through everything. If you are looking for something turn key (don't blame you for that), a gasser may be the way to go.

Owner of multiple diesels.

 

[OffroadTreks]

I believe up to 2012 on the Cummins should be emissions free in terms of DEF and that junk. 2011 GM and Ford both phased in DEF.

Diesel will get better mileage, but if you buy new, don't fool yourself into thinking it's also saving you money, because cost wise, you're actually spending more across the board.

But if you buy late model used, you should be saving money.

 

[000]

I manage a fleet of a dozen tow trucks and as the we replaced the old reliable diesel trucks with the modern trucks our repair costs skyrocketed, we always seemed to have multiple trucks down and not making money. We tried all of the big 3 and found that they all had become too unreliable for our use. Over the last few years we have been phasing in ford f550 and f650 V10s. These have proven to be much more reliable, cost half as much to maintain and have plenty of power to tow broken modern diesels around. That being said, I'm a Toyota guy so I don't really have an interest in either, just what I've encountered at work.


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[Mad Garden Gnome]

I believe up to 2012 on the Cummins should be emissions free in terms of DEF and that junk. 2011 GM and Ford both phased in DEF.

Diesel will get better mileage, but if you buy new, don't fool yourself into thinking it's also saving you money, because cost wise, you're actually spending more across the board.

But if you buy late model used, you should be saving money.

I was honestly thinking mechanical injection, 5.9 Cummins, 6.9 International/Ford w/ turbo, 6.5/6.5 Detroit/GM w/ turbo. Won't get the efficiency of an electronic management motor, but less electronic liability. Yea, I looked at the pre DEF 6.7 Cummins before I lost my mind and bought a '17 (don't ask $$$, at least wife's cousin was the salesman).

P.S. Speaking of older dependable diesels, just bought a 1940 International TD6 Crawler

 

[000]

Something else to consider is parts availability and mechanical ability of wherever you might be traveling.


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[1derer]

For a full sized world traveler there are few diesels that I'd consider up to 1998 Cummins 12 Valve 2005 - 2006 cummins 24vlave HO both with manual transmissions. Not a fan of the diesel engines with current smog equipment we shall see how the FORD 6.7L but so far they have not been able to get it right, I would not go for a 7.3L as they are aging and are far from modern power plant output. Dodge is great engine but the rest of the tuck is suspect (IMO). Chevy was never much of a consideration to me but maybe others with experience can weigh in. All modern engines are very complex gas or diesel containing a mix of electrons and fuel management systems. Hard to beat the line of Toyota trucks if I could manage a mid size I'd go Tacoma if wanted a full size Tundra.

 

[eirraider]

I heard an EGR delete kit for the emissions is the best way to go for the Cummins with all the new emissions equipment for reliability of the motor. Subtracting the exhaust feedback into the intake helps the new engines become as reliable as the older ones and loosing the DEF fill-up as a requirement is a major plus all around. Plus, at that point you can add air to fuel ratio programs for the job at hand, such as economy mode, towing mode, and performance mode. Which in economy mode a 2016 dodge 2500 diesel could average around 25mpg on the freeway and around 17mpg in the city (without any tire size/tread modifications). Of course depending on your smog regulations where you live this could be seen as illegal, so check out the regulation before this kind of work is done.

 

[1derer]

I heard an EGR delete kit for the emissions is the best way to go for the Cummins with all the new emissions equipment for reliability of the motor. Subtracting the exhaust feedback into the intake helps the new engines become as reliable as the older ones and loosing the DEF fill-up as a requirement is a major plus all around. Plus, at that point you can add air to fuel ratio programs for the job at hand, such as economy mode, towing mode, and performance mode. Which in economy mode a 2016 dodge 2500 diesel could average around 25mpg on the freeway and around 17mpg in the city (without any tire size/tread modifications). Of course depending on your smog regulations where you live this could be seen as illegal, so check out the regulation before this kind of work is done.

Wow I'd love to see a 6.7L getting 25mpg! I'd imagine it would also require duct tape, pizza cutters at 85PSI 2WD with a standard cab hyper mile driving max 55 mph? but without tire modifications I would need to see to believe! I have owned a few cummins, 1 international 444 and one 6.6L dramax. The Cummins 12V manual standard cab 2wd kept below 60mph would get 23.5. Nothing else came close no matter programing but they were autos and 4x4. Not saying its not possible! Just was unaware anyone pulled it off for daily driving.

 

[anotheraznguy]

So my current rig and previous tow rig are diesel.

My old 99 2wd long bed was used to tow everywhere and it was diesel. The pros of diesel are the price of diesel doesn't fluctuate during holidays as much as gas prices does. Diesel on that one was generally reliable but it all related to fuel quality. I was in the middle of nowhere and had to fill up at a smaller gas station and it des clogged my fuel filter. So traveling with a diesel it may be best to load up on spare fuel filters. Also finding gas stations that carry diesel could be another issue depending on where you go. The mileage on my old truck was only 20mph and that was all highway putting at 65 with a tuner so there are a lot of stretches of truth when people say their diesel 3/4-1 ton diesel getting 25+ mpg. Its possible but just really hard.

My current rig has all the BS emissions. I need to retain everything so just to give you a heads up with mainly doing trails and highway without much heavy towing my DEF fluid usage is about every 4k miles i need to throw in a jug to fill her back up. Another issue is expense of repairs for the DEF system. It is very pricey once out of warranty. If you are in a state that doesnt emissions check diesel's you could get away with stripping it all and the truck would be quite a bit more reliable. However the FEDS could get on your case. Another issue with the newer trucks is all that emissions crap is bulky. The DEF tank on the ram is tucked above the transfer case skidplate so that isnt too much of a worry but the actual DPF filter for the exhaust is the lowest hanging component. If you do rocks or harder trails that could be an expensive repair even on a new rig.

In terms of diesel vs gas. Towing a camper or enclosed the MPG will be quite a bit better on a diesel. When i was towing my 20ft enclosed the old ram was getting 10 MPG average to southern california up the grape vine. With my buddy's Tundra with the 5.4 V8 we were getting 5-6 MPG using the same trailer and similarly loaded. The low end tq is great for steep hills in a diesel but if you care about acceleration a gas motor will just accelerate faster.

In terms of size, i wish it were a jeep then i could go anywhere. With the big trucks, depending on the trails you do you could get stuck between two trees or start looking into extensive armor.

 

[Kelso]

The emissions equipment can easily be removed and where I'm from I never had any concerns with doing so to my 6.7 Ford, however boarder crossings might cause you a problem there. My 6.7 Superduty was quite reliable and got excellent fuel economy with a 500hp tune once all that junk was removed and I wouldn't hesitate to drive it any distance from civilization. I personally didn't have too many issues with it before hand (deleted it at 100,000km when the first major issue arose) but I've had many friends battling constant issues, especially with the pre-2013 Cummins emissions, and I wouldn't want to be far from a dealer with a new truck with the emissions intact. And I'm not knocking the Cummins, I replaced my Superduty with one. Cummins started with DPF in 2007 and Ford and GM were 2008 I believe so if you want a "non-deleted" truck you will be looking about 10 years old at minimum. The DEF is annoying to fill but the DPF is what plugs up with high sulfur fuel and requires the re-gens and causes most of the emissions headaches along with the EGR. My honest opinion, a gas engine will be a better choice for that trip. Everyone's situation is different but the added maintenance on the diesel plus (where I'm from at least) the typically higher cost of diesel is pretty much a wash compared to the better mileage. Then you factor in the extra purchase cost, availability of good quality diesel in remote locations, added wear on the front end from the extra weight...
Heck, just get a power wagon!

 

[DieselAPS]

The one thing no one has mentioned yet, is that diesels don't like to start in really cold conditions. Heading to Alaska would cause me concern in my 2002 7.3 Superduty. If your block heater is plugged in , you're golden, but otherwise I would worry if I could leave camp in the mornings. Maybe "modern" diesels are more reliable at this than my somewhat-ancient beast.
And yes, I love my diesel.

 

[Kelso]

I forgot to or wasn't able to plug my 6.7 Powerstroke in around -40 a few times. Wasn't pretty but started first try. I don't think I ever had to with my 6.7 Cummins but it was drama free when plugged in down to about -30C. Unless travel to Alaska is planned for winter this wouldn't be an issue anyways.
My cummins was unmodified but my Powerstroke got 10L/100 km or 23mpgUS at 100km/hr (60mph) with stock sized tires after the deletes and turning. I typically got ~19mpg with my 35" tires and higher speeds.
So you don't have to be a hypermiler to achieve it but pretty much everything else you do to the truck will bring the mileage down...