Frequency Discussion and Education

[N2JEEPN]

Again, nobody programs frequencies into FRS/GMRS radio. It is channel oriented like CB.

I thought it was obvious HAM/GMRS required licenses and CB/FRS did not. Maybe some folks did not know this, so yeah folks should know if they buy a HAM/GMRS radio they will need a license. If they buy CB/FRS they will not.

I will be sure to spread the word. thx.

I know of individuals that have have programmed GMRS and FSR frequency's into their Baofeng and Anytone radios. My understanding is the newer radios that are coming out "may" have different channel numbers for the frequency's.

 

[N2JEEPN]

OLB has made recommendations for communications. I think it is a GREAT idea and concept. As a radio operator/user it is your responsibility to know the laws, rules, and regulations regarding radio usage.

What is a legal radio to use and what radios are illegal to use? Do you know what a channel is? Do you know what a frequency is? Did you know that there are some radios that have the same frequency on different channels? Know your channels (old radios channels/frequency may be different that the newer radio channels/frequency) but more importantly know what frequency you are to be using. It is up to you as a radio user to know if you need a license or not. Go to the WEB and GOOGLE!

Amateur Radio Operators need a license to legally transmit on a Ham Radio Frequency; however, anyone can listen to a ham radio frequency without a license. GMRS you need a license to transmit, no license to listen. CB and FSR you do not need a license to transmit or listen. Some GMRS and FRS share the same frequency so it is your responsibility use the correct legal radios for GMRS or FSR usage and attain a license if needed.

Below are the recommendations from OLB to use:

“CB” or “CBRS”: Channel 16 is frequency 27.155

“FSR”: Channel 15 (on most FSR’s “old or new radio may be different?”) is simplex frequency 462.550

“GMRS”: Channel 15 or 1 (on most FSR’s “old or new radio may be different?”) is simplex frequency 462.550

“Ham Radio”: Simplex frequency 146.460 (channels vary depending on how you loaded them into your radios)


https://midlandusa.com/6-things-you-should-know-about-fcc-changes-for-frs-and-gmrs-radios/

https://bettersaferadio.com/fcc-adopts-long-awaited-changes-prs-bands-gmrs-frs-cb-murs/

http://codegreenprep.com/2017/11/new-2017-frs-gmrs-radio-frequencies/

 

[Prerunner1982]

That escalated quickly.
For clarification FRS is 2 watts or less.
GMRS is more than 2 watts up to 50 watts.

 

[brien]

@n2jeepn Thank you for voicing your questions and concerns. In the original thread I laid out an outline and a proposal for an article that will help demystify these recommendations for people unfamiliar with the boring details of FCC rules, in addition to explaining some etiquette that is generally followed by radio operators. Here's the outline as I laid it out in the previous thread, sorry it took me so long to see this new thread. I was not aware it had popped up or I would have jumped in sooner to help answer questions. I am working on the new guide right now and hope to have it published here on the forums in the next day or so.

Quick Introduction to the Overland Bound comms freqs

• Comms in a group run
  • Selecting radio type based on group
  • Comm points to go over in a driver meeting
    • radio selection
    • frequency / channel announcement
    • selecting leader, tail, and if needed middle "gunners".
  • relaying messages to other radios (say group is using ham, but there's one guy who only has a CB)
  • What to announce and when (turns, obstacles, sights, etc)
• Amateur radio
  • License requirement (just a quick blurb, and links to existing bootcamp about getting licensed)
  • National calling frequency
  • Off-road / Overland bound calling frequency
  • Selecting a simplex frequency for a group run
  • power settings / expected range
• GMRS / FRS
  • License requirement (again, just a quick overview)
  • Selecting a channel for a group run
  • CTCSS / Privacy Codes
  • power considerations / expected range
• Children's Band (CB)
  • License requirement (none, but mention it anway)
  • Selecting a channel for a group run
  • Squelch
  • power considerations / expected range

 

[Ditcherman]

OLB has made recommendations for communications. I think it is a GREAT idea and concept. As a radio operator/user it is your responsibility to know the laws, rules, and regulations regarding radio usage.

What is a legal radio to use and what radios are illegal to use? Do you know what a channel is? Do you know what a frequency is? Did you know that there are some radios that have the same frequency on different channels? Know your channels (old radios channels/frequency may be different that the newer radio channels/frequency) but more importantly know what frequency you are to be using. It is up to you as a radio user to know if you need a license or not. Go to the WEB and GOOGLE!

Amateur Radio Operators need a license to legally transmit on a Ham Radio Frequency; however, anyone can listen to a ham radio frequency without a license. GMRS you need a license to transmit, no license to listen. CB and FSR you do not need a license to transmit or listen. Some GMRS and FRS share the same frequency so it is your responsibility use the correct legal radios for GMRS or FSR usage and attain a license if needed.

So you knew the answers all along but the whole time you're asking questions.
This is why I came home from taking the test and threw the radio in the corner and am just now picking it back up to try to figure stuff out. Way more confused after the test and being around a bunch of people that knew it all but weren't really teaching.
It's easy if you know how to do it.
Yes, I should have bought a Kenwood not a Baeofang.
I also know if I turn on my Family Radio Service (FRS) radio I see channels and there is absolutely no way to program anything. It's channels.
Quote- "I know of individuals that have have programmed GMRS and FSR frequency's into their Baofeng and Anytone radios."
So the whole time your asking these questions you are talking about people that know better, HAM operators, or at worst people that bought a radio and are using it without a license, so all your questioning was irrelevant, because 1. they know better 2. FRS can't be programmed. (I have no knowledge of GMRS so not going to speak to that)
It's just not very helpful.
No, I don't understand the difference between a channel and a frequency, and a whole other bunch of stuff that I hope to learn, which is why I am perusing this thread.
KD9KIC over and out. Or whatever I'm supposed to say.

 

[Kent R]

So you knew the answers all along but the whole time you're asking questions.
This is why I came home from taking the test and threw the radio in the corner and am just now picking it back up to try to figure stuff out. Way more confused after the test and being around a bunch of people that knew it all but weren't really teaching.
It's easy if you know how to do it.
Yes, I should have bought a Kenwood not a Baeofang.
I also know if I turn on my Family Radio Service (FRS) radio I see channels and there is absolutely no way to program anything. It's channels.
Quote- "I know of individuals that have have programmed GMRS and FSR frequency's into their Baofeng and Anytone radios."
So the whole time your asking these questions you are talking about people that know better, HAM operators, or at worst people that bought a radio and are using it without a license, so all your questioning was irrelevant, because 1. they know better 2. FRS can't be programmed. (I have no knowledge of GMRS so not going to speak to that)
It's just not very helpful.
No, I don't understand the difference between a channel and a frequency, and a whole other bunch of stuff that I hope to learn, which is why I am perusing this thread.
KD9KIC over and out. Or whatever I'm supposed to say.

;-)

 

[brien]

“FSR”: Channel 15 (on most FSR’s “old or new radio may be different?”) is simplex frequency 462.550
“GMRS”: Channel 15 or 1 (on most FSR’s “old or new radio may be different?”) is simplex frequency 462.550

I would like to address this right now, however, because i won't go into actual frequencies behind the FRS/GMRS channels in the guide i'm writing. Overland Bound should always refer to channels only in the case of FRS and GMRS and always refrain from referring to the actual frequencies behind the channels. FRS and GMRS bands are licensed BY DEVICE. You must use a device that the FCC has certified for use on GMRS or FRS bands, even in the case of GMRS, where there is an additional household license required by the user. These bands (well, all bands, really) have very specific power limits and emission standards and pointing out the exact frequencies for use may encourage people to think they can go buy a cheap ham radio (like a Baofeng) and program it for GMRS/FRS use. This is not the case as those radios are not FCC certified for that use. They may allow the operator to configure parameters that would violate GMRS/FRS restrictions. Yes, people can "google it" and do it anyway, but as a responsible community, we should not encourage people to do so.

To add to that, anytime i see a non-licensed operator using a ham radio on the trail, i strongly urge them to get licensed, and I tell them sternly not to operate the radio around me or in communication with me. As amateurs we are responsible for self-policing the bands, and on top of that, we are only allowed to communicate with other licensed operators, otherwise we are at risk of fine and/or revocation of license ourselves.

 

[N2JEEPN]

Thst escalated quickly.
For clarification FRS is 2 watts or less.
GMRS is more than 2 watts up to 50 warts.

So you knew the answers all along but the whole time you're asking questions.
This is why I came home from taking the test and threw the radio in the corner and am just now picking it back up to try to figure stuff out. Way more confused after the test and being around a bunch of people that knew it all but weren't really teaching.
It's easy if you know how to do it.
Yes, I should have bought a Kenwood not a Baeofang.
I also know if I turn on my Family Radio Service (FRS) radio I see channels and there is absolutely no way to program anything. It's channels.
Quote- "I know of individuals that have have programmed GMRS and FSR frequency's into their Baofeng and Anytone radios."
So the whole time your asking these questions you are talking about people that know better, HAM operators, or at worst people that bought a radio and are using it without a license, so all your questioning was irrelevant, because 1. they know better 2. FRS can't be programmed. (I have no knowledge of GMRS so not going to speak to that)
It's just not very helpful.
No, I don't understand the difference between a channel and a frequency, and a whole other bunch of stuff that I hope to learn, which is why I am perusing this thread.
KD9KIC over and out. Or whatever I'm supposed to say.

No....I do not know the answers, I ask questions to promote discussion. We have not even addressed the GMRS/FSR antenna rules for hand held / mobiles.

 

[N2JEEPN]

Thst escalated quickly.
For clarification FRS is 2 watts or less.
GMRS is more than 2 watts up to 50 warts.

FRS is 2 watts max on certain frequency's. FRS is .5 watts max on certain frequency.

Thst escalated quickly.
For clarification FRS is 2 watts or less.
GMRS is more than 2 watts up to 50 warts.

Thst escalated quickly.
For clarification FRS is 2 watts or less.
GMRS is more than 2 watts up to 50 warts.

Could you please explain why some FSR frequencys are 2 watt max and other FSR frequency's are .5 watt max?

 

[Ditcherman]

FRS is 2 watts max on certain frequency's. FRS is .5 watts max on certain frequency.


Could you please explain why some FSR frequencys are 2 watt max and other FSR frequency's are .5 watt max?

I would attempt to answer your question by saying that it’s built in to the radio that I can go just about anywhere and buy, Amazon, cabelas, dollar general, or the truck stop on the corner. If I buy a FRS radio, put the batteries in and turn it on, I can’t break the law. They’re idiot-proof. And probably smart people proof too. They’re limited to 2 watts.
I’ll hazard a guess that you are looking at this from a top down, educated point of view, where you are looking at a frequency chart or something and seeing where they can all be used and wondering about the crossover. I am coming from more of a bottom up point of view, where think, ‘what can this little box do?’ The machine is limited to 2 watts out of the box and virtually no one that could would bother to fiddle with it. Feel free to correct me on any of this.

 

[Ditcherman]

No....I do not know the answers, I ask questions to promote discussion. We have not even addressed the GMRS/FSR antenna rules for hand held / mobiles.

I feel like that’s a whole ‘nother discussion on a technical level, not in the thread announcing ‘hey guys monitor here’.
By the way, there are two threads with the exact same title floating around, Micheal started this one in the comms section as an announcement after the other thread progressed.

 

[brien]

No....I do not know the answers, I ask questions to promote discussion.

I don't think anybody here has a problem with you asking questions, what may be rubbing people the wrong way is the combative way that you appear to be asking them.

The spirit of this thread was to announce some common agreed upon calling frequencies and channels to serve as a starting point for Overland Bound members to contact each other on the road or trail. The assumption I think most of us had is that people a) are already familiar with one or more of the radio types, or 2) have the capacity to learn about the nitty gritty specifics of all three radio types in other threads here or other resources on the internet.

If you really want to understand more about the FRS/GMRS regulations, It might be worth reading up on Part 95 to get a better understanding of the specifics that you have questions about.

FRS is 2 watts max on certain frequency's. FRS is .5 watts max on certain frequency.
Could you please explain why some FSR frequencys are 2 watt max and other FSR frequency's are .5 watt max?

The simple answer is "Because the FCC says so" that's really all most of these things boil down to. Here's the relevant section of Part 95

§95.567 FRS transmit power.
Each FRS transmitter type must be designed such that the effective radiated power (ERP) on channels 8 through 14 does not exceed 0.5 Watts and the ERP on channels 1 through 7 and 15 through 22 does not exceed 2.0 Watts.

 

[N2JEEPN]

I don't think anybody here has a problem with you asking questions, what may be rubbing people the wrong way is the combative way that you appear to be asking them.

The spirit of this thread was to announce some common agreed upon calling frequencies and channels to serve as a starting point for Overland Bound members to contact each other on the road or trail. The assumption I think most of us had is that people a) are already familiar with one or more of the radio types, or 2) have the capacity to learn about the nitty gritty specifics of all three radio types in other threads here or other resources on the internet.

If you really want to understand more about the FRS/GMRS regulations, It might be worth reading up on Part 95 to get a better understanding of the specifics that you have questions about.

The simple answer is "Because the FCC says so" that's really all most of these things boil down to. Here's the relevant section of Part 95

I'm asking questions to promote discussion for the members. It is unfortunate that you view promoting discussion is combative. I see you are are now personally attacking me and my questions. I have a idea why don't you read Part 95 and tell us what it says instead of attacking a OLB member who is promoting discussion.

 

[brien]

I'm asking questions to promote discussion for the members. It is unfortunate and sad that you feel promoting discussion is combative.

This is a prime example of what I was trying to politely point out to you.

 

[brien]

I see you've edited your post, so i'll reply to the new stuff

I see you are are now personally attacking me and my questions. I have a idea why don't you read Part 95 and tell us what it says instead of attacking a OLB member who is promoting discussion.

I was honestly trying to help you by pointing you at the relevant information, with the added point of "lots of the answers to the pedantic stuff is literally 'Because the FCC says so'". As others have pointed out in this thread, one of the great things about FRS and GMRS is that the FCC licenses/certifies by device, so you literally can just plug it in and go, that's kind of the point. One doesn't have to worry about or understand the nitty gritty details because they can't change them anyway, the devices are literally locked down to ONLY comply. I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way, but for a lot of this specific stuff, there really is no better source than the actual FCC verbiage. This is not to say that one can't ask or wonder why the details are what they are, just pointing out that there's probably not a lot of people who will be able to answer your question with more than just "Because that's what the FCC has declared"

 

[Prerunner1982]

Could you please explain why some FSR frequencys are 2 watt max and other FSR frequency's are .5 watt max?

Because they are between and partially overlap the GMRS repeater input frequencies.
The channels are only 12.5Khz wide and are limited to handhelds with non-removable antennas.
" Specifically, only hand-held units with integral antennas may transmit on these channels, transmitting power on these channels will be limited to 0.5 Watts ERP, emission bandwidth on these channels will be limited to 12.5 kilohertz, and frequency tolerance on these channels will be held to within 2.5 parts per million (ppm)."

 

[Kent R]

Since I shared Michaels post about the common channels on this thread and it has taken on a life of its own and that a good thing, I will be renaming it to better describe the conversation. This will now be "Frequency discussion and education"
Keep up the dialogue.

 

[Renegade]

I know of individuals that have have programmed GMRS and FSR frequency's into their Baofeng and Anytone radios.

Those are not FRS/GMRS radios. And yes, I know you can program them into non-FRS/GMRS devices. I have done it in all of mine.

My understanding is the newer radios that are coming out "may" have different channel numbers for the frequency's.

If that happens, OB can clarify what channel to use.

You seem to be trying so hard to make something so simple, incredibly hard. Why is that? If you have a HAM/GMRS license you already know the answers.

I have a idea why don't you read Part 95 and tell us what it says instead of attacking a OLB member who is promoting discussion.

I have a idea why don't you read it and then write a simple cheat sheet of the basic rules and share it with the community? In fact, start a new discussion thread dedicated to radio regulations.

 

[Steve]

I know of individuals that have have programmed GMRS and FSR frequency's into their Baofeng and Anytone radios.

This is illegal, and Overland Bound does not approve of nor condone such use. Please refrain from posting illegal information.

 

[HappyOurOverlanding]

Here is a good explanation for channel vs frequency
https://ham.stackexchange.com/questions/5547/what-is-the-difference-between-channel-frequency-band-in-rf

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