We did a trip through Ocala National Forest this last Monday. WHAT A FRICKEN DUMP! 9 hr trip = zero wildlife
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Traveler III
Looks like an opportunity for a big group of OB members from the area to organize a cleanup. BC 4wd Association has had great success in organizing cleanups of this magnitude several times and would be happy to share info and tips that might be useful.
This is a tragedy, and it is despicable, but it can also be an opportunity for an organization like ours to show the proper way to care for public lands.
This is a tragedy, and it is despicable, but it can also be an opportunity for an organization like ours to show the proper way to care for public lands.
If it were not for the Adopt-A-Trail program I know the San Bernardino National Forest would look the same way.
Those problems are everywhere. The solutions (or lack thereof) are what vary from place to place.
Traveler III
It's extremely frustrating, no question. Virtually every time I go in the woods I come out with a load of other people's trash.
It could make a person throw up his hands in despair, but I prefer to try to be the change I want to see instead. Grassroots organizations like ours have had great success in making major impacts, like the adopt a trail program you mention, so I always like to put the suggestion out there. It would be pretty thrilling to see a big group of OB members organize a major cleanup on something like this :)
there are easy solutions...
if its state owned property, then the state is responsible. instead of handing out millions of dollars for people to sit on their asses at home, the state could use "welfare" as a way to pay people to do state work. instead of paying people to be deadbeats, pay them to clean up shit and its a win-win for tax payers and the environment
instead of turning pollution into a bitch-fest...it could be used as an earning opportunity instead
if its state owned property, then the state is responsible. instead of handing out millions of dollars for people to sit on their asses at home, the state could use "welfare" as a way to pay people to do state work. instead of paying people to be deadbeats, pay them to clean up shit and its a win-win for tax payers and the environment
instead of turning pollution into a bitch-fest...it could be used as an earning opportunity instead
Off-Road Ranger I
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This is my grandkid's Cub Scout troop. They haul several tons of trash out of the Francis Marion every year. Organized cleanups do good work. The Francis Marion holds clean up days annually and everyone is welcome to help out. The local hunt, Jeep, and Scout clubs show up in force.
Member III
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I live in NW Florida about 5.5 hours away from the Ocala National Forrest, that is sad to see. If any large group cleanup is ever organized through the forum I would be interested in helping out if I could, watching this thread!
Ah yes, the old it is someone else's problem. No it is our problem.
State solution would be to close off access. Problem Solved.
A better solution than to "sit on your ass as you drive past it", would be to pick it up, or whatever you can pick up. Organize a trail cleanup if there is too much. Do not post pictures, just do it. The goal here is to get it clean before the road gets closed.
virtue signaling aint my bag, either...and NO, people littering on property i dont own or have control over is NOT my problem.
i own several commercial properties and included in rent is money allotted for CAM (common area maintenance). instead of bitching about the litter on my property created by my tenant's customers...i pay to have the property mowed and cleaned. now...just envision the state being the owner like me and collecting money like me EXCEPT instead of pissing the money away and closing down properties because of litter, they take the collected money they already have and use it to pay people to clean up the litter, just like i do. i dont have to shake my fist in the air or virtue signal or threaten to close things down or any wasted efforts...my tenants already pay me and all i have to do is be responsible with what they pay me. if i can do that with my pittance of money collected monthly...im sure a state the size of florida with billions of taxes collected yearly can do the same. the state gives away millions in welfare, all i suggest is to take the money they already collected from people who WORK and instead of giving so much of it to people who dont work, take a portion of that money and make jobs cleaning state parks. there will still be plenty of money left to give to deadbeats, so liberals can still feel good about themselves. i've paid half a mil in taxes in two years...i've already paid to use a park that is run with my tax money, i'm not going be a janitor on top of it
like i said...a SIMPLE solution
righteous indignation can be a good thing, but it is only "righteous" when directed at the right people for the right reason...
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Off-Road Ranger I
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Honestly, I agree with a lot of what you say. Unfortunately, the National Forest only gets about $44/acre to take care of all of the national forests and national grasslands. The chances of them getting a higher budget to include trash pickup is slim to none. They barely have enough people to manage the forests, much less clean up behind everyone who pitches a wrapper or can out the window. So the rest of us, who enjoy nature and spending time in the woods, have a choice to make. We can help, or we can lose access to the areas. Of the hundreds of hours I spend in my local national forest every year, I spend a few hours picking up trash. I keep a roll of bags and a grabber in the truck and if I stop, I spend a couple of minutes picking up any trash around me. Yes, it's irritating to do so but it's better than riding around looking at it and it's better than having the forest management close access. It's a fairly small price to pay for a beautiful place to spend time.
There was a cleanup event on Jan 20th and there are many more on the horizon. Don’t assume there aren’t efforts to clean up the ONF, but as it’s been said many times, it’s a Nation Wide Problem. What you show there isn’t all regular use garbage either. There’s even an unfortunate homeless situation near the forest that exacerbates the issues. It’s people that simply don’t care, and you’ll never stop those people.
As for wildlife not sure what you expected lol. The bears lay low and deer aren’t exactly going to hang around the roads in the middle of the day. Unless you were hiking you’ll probably only see small birds and squirrels. Find one of the trailheads and walk around on foot a bit and you’ll definitely enjoy some wildlife. These cranes here were clearly used to people and was able to walk right upon them for this pic. Florida wildlife can be small too and aren’t exactly jumping out to take selfies with you. Next time maybe slow down and enjoy the search for wildlife instead of pointing camera at the garbage. But at least I now know where to find a junk sedan hood if I ever need one….
As for wildlife not sure what you expected lol. The bears lay low and deer aren’t exactly going to hang around the roads in the middle of the day. Unless you were hiking you’ll probably only see small birds and squirrels. Find one of the trailheads and walk around on foot a bit and you’ll definitely enjoy some wildlife. These cranes here were clearly used to people and was able to walk right upon them for this pic. Florida wildlife can be small too and aren’t exactly jumping out to take selfies with you. Next time maybe slow down and enjoy the search for wildlife instead of pointing camera at the garbage. But at least I now know where to find a junk sedan hood if I ever need one….
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Member III
This, exactly.
Several presidents ago, he cut money and personnel to forest service, blm and as well as a few other state and federal agencies. In the areas that concern us, we have about 30% of the manpower and 100% of the work. The problem is, they cut back money and people but are still required to do the same work load. The upkeep didn't change.
This opened them up to lawsuit's. There are several groups out there made up of biologists and lawyers who comb through the area's "action plan" and find things they just don't have the time and man power to deal with. They file a law suite, not because its the right thing to do but because someone will throw money at them to go away. The largest group in my area is the Center for Biological Diversity. There are several like them out there. This is a multi million dollar business with several "watch dog groups" filling law suits as fast as they can. Remember, they don't care about the environment, only getting money.
In the above mentioned state park, if the trash isn't a priority (or on the action plan), it "hopefully" will get done eventually. Or not.
As far as I know, Utah is the exception. I'm sure frivolous laws suits happen in that state but, I truly believe they just don't want us driving or riding there. That isn't just "motorized" but "mechanized (bicycles) as well.
Because of this, volunteer groups are more necessary.
very well said and i love how you can get your point across without resorting to grand-standing, virtue signaling or shaming people in order to make yourself look good. unfortunately topics like this are difficult at best because there is no clear answer to a problem we are all passionate about.
i appreciate all ideas and opinions and i sincerely wish that all my money injected into the "system" would produce the same result that i have been able to achieve myself, but that is not reality. im a lover , not a fighter...i'll shit out what ever money is necessary to solve a problem, but take my money and solve the problem. dont turn it into a shitshow where lost people are now brought into it and used as pawns to parrot crazy ideals and notions. thats it. i'm doing my part...all i ask is for the silent majority to keep their minds and not give into the craziness or bullshit....
people doing bad things are NOT victims. people shitting in the streets in san fran or dumping garbage in the parks are NOT victims and we are NOT responsible for them. that is total bullshit. i'm tired of good people being made to feel bad about themselves because a few shitbirds choose to do the wrong thing. thats where i stand. want to debate me? i am i right am here in public discourse...
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Off-Road Ranger I
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There are a shit ton of reasons I prefer to not live in a box under a bridge. Did it for a while back when I was “mentally ill” for about 3 weeks, 50 years ago. I remember saying to myself, this is bullshit. I went into a gas station, cleaned up as best I could and went into Manpower. Began working that day. The rest is history. Mental illness? No more mentally ill than any other kid thrown to the wolves at 17 years old.
All that trash in Fla; I’ve talked about this before, as Pennsylvania used to look like that, until enough outrage was stirred up, lots of phone calls were made, a couple of meetings, and finally a newspaper reporter saw fit to publish a story about it. Law enforcement finally stepped in, did a tiny bit of forensics, ( how hard is it to find a vin #?) made an example of a few offenders, made some arrests, made some convictions with maximum fines and penalties imposed. Our St Forests are no longer dumping grounds. Sometimes, like that 19 year old kid got 50 years ago, all that is needed is a firm bitch slap to wake em up.
If you think the national forests look bad, try visiting a public BLM shooting range.
We have one also that’s a dump. Kids running around unsupervised. No Range Master. A real 3 ring circus, too dangerous to go to.
Traveler III
See, this is the kind of thing I like to see, and the kind of response we as taxpaying citizens of our respective countries need to demand from our public SERVANTS. No, closing off access is NOT acceptable. It is NOT acceptable to punish the vast majority who are actually trying to solve the problem because of the bad actions of a small minority who don't care. The answer is to punish the offenders and deter them from said bad actions in the first place. Glad to hear of an authority actually doing their jobs instead of shutting things down for a change.
I will also add that organizations like ours can have a hand in eliciting that response as well. 4wd Association of BC has had a lot of success in preventing the government from shutting things down because they first put in the major cleanup efforts. They now have considerable influence and voice with the government because they've proven themselves to be serious about fixing problems, so much so that they've actually had the government hand over management of numerous rec sites throughout the province. For those not in the know, rec sites in BC are basically remote camp grounds that usually have minimal services like picnic tables and maybe a shelter, but are generally far out in the bush and off the beaten path. They're awesome places to camp, and BC is very blessed to have so many still in operation because of the Association.
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