Feeling defeated about payload

[codemancer]

I've just started becoming conscious about the weight that I'm carrying on my rig. I have grand plans: bumper, winch, RTT, bed rack... all the stuff you see on kick-ass YouTube videos.

Well.. tomorrow I'm taking my family on a really simple overnight trip. I decided to start adding things up. Currently I just have RCI steel rock sliders and steel skid plates (engine, transmission, t-case, rear diff). What I found shocked me. With my family of 4 and my dog loaded up, we only have about 100 lbs left before we hit GVWR. Water alone is going to account for half of that.

This sucks. I'm feeling stupid for not doing this math before I bought my truck, but at the same time this is the truck I've always wanted: long before I ever even heard the term "overlanding." I'm now in the position of having to run at or over GVWR or pulling off my armor. I considered switching to aluminum skids but I'd only save 50 lbs. I mean... that's a lot, but it's not really _the_ issue. I feel like I'm having to make a big decision about how my build progresses:

1) Never touch difficult terrain - remove the skid plates entirely and save 140 lbs.
2) Buy something else - sell my beloved, brand-new Tacoma and get something that can load a few hundred more pounds; the 4Runner can carry more, the Ranger can carry more. None of them are the vehicle I _want_. I would also lose a lot of money doing this.
3) Buy a trailer - still running at GVWR, but at least you can carry all your gear in a trailer (looking at at least $8k for a new trailer, but could buy a beater for much less that isn't quite as nice).
4) Go solo - I can have it all! I just have to have it all without my family. This isn't really an option I want to consider unless I'm willing to build out a higher payload family rig.

Right now I'm leaning towards #1 followed by #3 because the used trailer market looks... not great... and I am not really wanting to lose a bunch of money.

 

[Smileyshaun]

Now just think how over the GVWR most all the decked out rigs you see running around the internet are , nothing like loading a midsize rig up with a 3/4 ton payload and then wonder why it gets worse mileage than a v8 . On the odd side of things if you look at the GVWR rating for your rig say in Canada it will probably be a lot higher along with the toe rating .

 

[Downs]

I think if most of the YOutube overland channels did what you did they would find they are bumping or well over their GVWR.

You can probably drop the bumper, put a 2 inch receiver up there and then use a winch in a cradle. Armor up what is actually an issue, and drive with a modicum of restraint. I only run a T-case skid because the tcase hangs down a little bit below the crossmember and rock sliders to protect the rockers. They make armor to cover engine, trans, gas tank ect but I'm not out there Rock Crawling so it would be wasted weight. If I'm to the point of being on my transmission pan or engine oil pan I've already made some pretty poor decision on my "overlanding" trip.

You can still cross difficult terrain without skids. Again drive smart.

Look beyond the accessories you are bolted to the vehicle. How much gear are you carrying? Do you really need that heavy RTT and bed rack or can you get away with a large ground tent that takes a bit loner to setup? Do you need extra fuel? Do you really need enough water to last a week or can you get by on a few days at a time? I'm not sure what extra stuff you are actually carrying I'm just making some generalized statements about what I typically see on many of these overloaded vehicles.

 

[LostWoods]

Welcome to the effort in futility that is the Toyota Tacoma. Literally a top-3 reason I no longer have mine because no matter how you try, it will never happen unless you run it nearly stock or spend god-awful amounts of money. Don't mean to be a downer but I was extremely frustrated after coming to the exact same realization you did.

You can easily overland in a Tacoma but you just can't do it the way YouTube personalities do it without grossly violating GVWR. Thing is, even being a stickler for weight myself, I think GAWR is more important than GVWR so long as you're not towing. Just be sure to add stronger springs or an add-a-leaf in rear beacuse the Tacoma stock suspension is soft.

With a Tacoma, all I can recommend is either avoid the RTT or get something super light and an aluminum bed rack, then drop some other armor pieces to make up for it. You might need to get the rack custom to keep it as light as possible. Aluminum bumpers and skids will also give you protection without too much weight penalty. The rear bumper/hitch is so damn heavy that almost any standard replacement only adds 10-20lbs at most. Weld-on sliders can also save you 25% of the weight from a bolt-on set. Do skinny (255/85R16) 33's instead of wide 33x12.5 to save a few lbs per corner. For gear, keep it light as you can and if you're like me, dropping 50lbs is another good place to lose some payload.

Best course of action is to prioritize. Are you glamping or do you want more protection for wheeling? Put things in order and go from there.

 

[Billiebob]

Trailer is the simple choice. Once you have it I think you'll love it.

In reality, half ton pickups are passenger cars with boxes.

 

[smritte]

I don't think I've owned a 4wd that wasn't pushing the gvw or over it. I'm happy it concerns you, I wish more people payed attention to their mods. If that bothers you, don't look at what you actually do to your braking system by increasing tire size. Lets look at what you have to start with.
1. Toyota over sizes their brakes on their trucks. If you Mod the vehicle you need OEM or better when replacing these.
2. Slightly larger rear diff. A must for re-gearing or heavy payload. Chrome moly shafts if you go to 35" or bigger.
3. External oil and trany coolers (if you got the correct package). If you dont have them their easy to add in.
4. Obviously you need the correct springs and shocks.
To top it off, maintenance is now roughly half life.
Of course you can choose the accessories you need or what you don't need because it looks cool.

 

[Jay]

I love the taco, you get yourself some break pads with more bite, maybe a bit of an upgraded suspension down the line and enjoy ridding the truck you always wanted to have with all that madmax armor you plan on getting. sure MPG will suck a bit more, but at least you didn't buy a truck shaped like a brick ( i did lol )

 

[The other Sean]

Unless you are going to be bouncing your truck off rocks all day, I'd swap out the steel skids for aluminum. I have them on my Frontier and would do it again.

Bumpers? I have a WAM hidden winch mount behind my oem bumper. Until I rip the front (or rear for that matter) bumper off, i'm keeping the OEM ones in place.

One needs to separate cool things with needed things.....

 

[codemancer]

I think if most of the YOutube overland channels did what you did they would find they are bumping or well over their GVWR.

You can probably drop the bumper, put a 2 inch receiver up there and then use a winch in a cradle. Armor up what is actually an issue, and drive with a modicum of restraint. I only run a T-case skid because the tcase hangs down a little bit below the crossmember and rock sliders to protect the rockers. They make armor to cover engine, trans, gas tank ect but I'm not out there Rock Crawling so it would be wasted weight. If I'm to the point of being on my transmission pan or engine oil pan I've already made some pretty poor decision on my "overlanding" trip.

You can still cross difficult terrain without skids. Again drive smart.

Look beyond the accessories you are bolted to the vehicle. How much gear are you carrying? Do you really need that heavy RTT and bed rack or can you get away with a large ground tent that takes a bit loner to setup? Do you need extra fuel? Do you really need enough water to last a week or can you get by on a few days at a time? I'm not sure what extra stuff you are actually carrying I'm just making some generalized statements about what I typically see on many of these overloaded vehicles.

No bumper to drop (yet), but now I don't see myself getting one at all. I was already leaning towards just a 45lb lower fascia bumper but I think that's out. The main reason I got the armor so early is because I'm completely new to all of this and I figured it was protection against my inexperience. Having to drive smart to avoid needing them is a bit of a catch-22 because it implies I need to have experience I don't have. What I really need is an experienced group to wheel with. I haven't found that yet (haven't looked hard due to COVID).

As for the gear I'm carrying, it is nothing right now. It is just cooking essentials (a single burner stove, camp pots/pans, utensils), water (7 gal for 4 people, nearly 60lbs by itself!), a 25 lb tent, that sort of stuff. The most luxurious thing I bring is my CPAP and Goal Zero Yeti 500x to power it (15 lbs).

Welcome to the effort in futility that is the Toyota Tacoma. Literally a top-3 reason I no longer have mine because no matter how you try, it will never happen unless you run it nearly stock or spend god-awful amounts of money. Don't mean to be a downer but I was extremely frustrated after coming to the exact same realization you did.

Man... I've been thinking about this all day. I'm kind of kicking myself for not going for the 4Runner simply for the extra 500 lbs of payload capacity.

For gear, keep it light as you can and if you're like me, dropping 50lbs is another good place to lose some payload.

Yup... this has also been on my mind. I can definitely stand to lose some pounds.

Unless you are going to be bouncing your truck off rocks all day, I'd swap out the steel skids for aluminum. I have them on my Frontier and would do it again.

Bumpers? I have a WAM hidden winch mount behind my oem bumper. Until I rip the front (or rear for that matter) bumper off, i'm keeping the OEM ones in place.

One needs to separate cool things with needed things.....

When it comes to steel vs aluminum it just doesn't seem worth trading for a different material. It is 50 lbs lighter for aluminum based on RCI's numbers and while that's a good chunk of weight it's probably not enough to get me comfortably under GVWR. I don't plan to be bouncing off rocks, but I _was_ under the impression that I would be tackling difficult terrain which I am not experienced with. Sliders and skids seemed like cheap protection. For me it wasn't about trying to be cool, it was about protecting my expensive truck. Perhaps it was a mistake to go new. My wife wants to replace her van, maybe I can convince her to go for something that is capable of carrying the whole family + camping gear without sacrificing safety.

 

[codemancer]

All you really need to do is upgrade your suspension. You don't need to spend a fortune, a good set of OME coil overs/ leaf springs rated for your additional weight and you're good to go. Make sure your tires are of adequate load ratings too.

It will have a much firmer ride when not loaded up though. It's always a 2 sided coin.

I upgraded the suspension on my FJ and I honestly like it FAR better than the stock (TRD/Bilstein) setup, loaded and unloaded.

This will help with handling the weight but it will still be over GVWR. I’m worried about safety and liability

 

[TerryD]

This will help with handling the weight but it will still be over GVWR. I’m worried about safety and liability

Putting in heavier springs will help increase that rating. I'm running a 200lb/in heavier coil rate in the front and rear springs designed to carry 500lb over stock weight. It's firm when it's empty, but it's rarely empty. I'm also regeared much lower and running Raybestos EHT brake pads that really improve stopping power.

All this needs considered when outfitting a vehicle beyond stock.

 

[LostWoods]

Man... I've been thinking about this all day. I'm kind of kicking myself for not going for the 4Runner simply for the extra 500 lbs of payload capacity.

Unless you're the type like me to render a back seat useless for passengers, I think you'll appreciate the extra space of the truck. We staged our usual setup (Pelican 1630, two coolers, and tent/bedding) in both Wranglers and the 4Runner and in the end I still went with a pickup... it's just too convenient to have that much space.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

What's gvwr? Ha ha ha. Never heard of such a thing. I put what I want in my rig and drive. I'm kidding about the gvwr part btw. I am keeping my plastic bumpers for a few reasons. 1. Weight, 2. No rusting making for a ugly rig, and 3. Cost. Bumpers are a huge waste of money for 90 percent of people. For the taco, there are winch mounts that replace the center part of the factory bumper and are useful. Or like others have said. 2" receiver and leave the winch home when you know your not going to need it. That's what I have done.

 

[DoubleA_FL]

I have a family of 4 + dog, and after a few trips out of the truck, I went the trailer route. Eventually, I want to build a real overland expedition rig, but until then, I second the rec for the trailer. It makes life SO MUCH EASIER. RTT and the biggest damn batwing awning you can fit and your life becomes infinitely better. Or you can do the teardrop bedroom style, still with a giant batwing, and then you are talking about real comfort!

 

[grubworm]

well, maybe take the family out a few times and see what they like. the wife may or may not like driving over really bumpy roads and stuff and that will offset the need for armor, etc. if your goal is to explore with the family, then the things you do to meet their criteria will dictate your rig. it might turn out that the best option is to get a small trailer like a tear drop and use it as a base camp and then you have the taco built and dedicated for exploring and can drop all the weight and space of equipment like RTT, cook gear, and well basically everything since sleeping bags, clothes, toiletries, food will all be in the camp trailer. i see you are in utah and there are a lot of great places to drive and explore there and in surrounding states. i would think a rig built for a little more offroad would make sense there. i live way east of the rockies and there is very little offroading out this way, so i went with a tundra with a leveling kit and 34" tires. i went for room and comfort which is great 90% of the time. if i went out west in your neck of the woods, i doubt i could go places your taco could. cant have it all, and that is why i built for what i do 90% of the time...if you are going to be driving and exploring by vehicle mostly, then build the rig for that and then adjust where you have to afterwards. most important is to find what you want to do most and then build for that and then take your lumps on things that aren't so important.

 

[Maverick9110E]

Option 1 or option 3. You'll lose more money than 8k just trading in and re-modifying.

 

[Gone_xtrkn]

well, maybe take the family out a few times and see what they like. the wife may or may not like driving over really bumpy roads and stuff and that will offset the need for armor, etc. if your goal is to explore with the family, then the things you do to meet their criteria will dictate your rig. if you are going to be driving and exploring by vehicle mostly, then build the rig for that and then adjust where you have to afterwards. most important is to find what you want to do most and then build for that and then take your lumps on things that aren't so important.

Seconded. While I drive a much less off-road-capable car and one with much less available payload I agree that overland trips and off roading trips don’t necessarily always Have to overlap. Our last trip to the Ozarks we spent 25 miles on a really rough forest road and by the time we set up camp one of my dogs had puked and my wife and the other dog were about 1/4 mile away from doing the same. I Also realized, for me, that when the rig is loaded down with all the gear we need for multiple days bouncing through ditches and over rocks turns into a bit of a nail-biter and at a certain point it becomes worth it to take the long way and find better conditions so I don’t feel the need to drain the whole beer supply when we make camp. For us, the off road modifications have turned into more of a form of insurance, to feel comfortable that we won’t get stuck if we find ourselves somewhere unpleasant, rather than a means of pushing ourselves to go somewhere we maybe shouldn’t. YMMV but that’s the point where I ditched the plan to add metal rocker guards, a fabricated bumper, thick armor, etc. and saved a lot of weight in the process.

I fully admit that I’m not speaking from personal experience but I have friends who have upgraded suspensions, etc. piece by piece to accommodate more weight and created a nasty cycle of parts failing as stress transferred to the new weakest link of the vehicle.

Backpacking style gear can also be your friend.

 

[Captstout]

There are some great ideas and solutions that have been posted.

I do know payload is a huge reason quite a few are going to larger rigs. They can carry more weight and get the same MPG.

My wife and I are taking our time buying our next rig (her daily driver). She loves Taco and 4runner. We will probably end up with a 4runner. The payload is a bit better than the Taco. We don't tow. It is just the two of us now. We camp with a Gazelle tent.

I have heard stories but do not know of anyone personally that has run into issues with insurance and overloading their trucks (accidents). I have a couple of friends that have run into issues with warranty stuff on their overloaded rigs.

Do an add a leaf or upgrade the rear suspension. Run it at max. Be safe. Be smart.

Good luck

 

[codemancer]

Thanks everyone for all the replies. If nothing else it helps me to realize that I'm not just "doing it wrong" but more that I just haven't found my groove and best use case. I like the idea of taking the family on some trips and letting them get a feel for it. If they absolutely love it and want to commit to the lifestyle then I guess I'll have to decide between a trailer or a larger dedicated rig (perhaps to replace my wife's daily, which she only uses about 3k miles per year). And either way it sounds like a suspension upgrade is overdue; I was trying to figure out my weight first then go for suspension, but sounds like I might just need to make my best estimation at total weight and get the suspension sooner than later.

 

[MMc]

I have friends that put air bags on their Taco and love it. They also upgraded the shocks. They will go most anywhere that isn’t wheeling over rocks bigger than a beach ball. Having used sedans, and little trucks and 1/2 ton full sized, I now have a 3/4 ton truck and don’t even think about GVW.