Emergency 2 way communication

[RJ Howell]

I have debated how to go about this and up till the last run, haven't been out of cell service when we've come upon another requiring assistance. This time we were in a valley an he was off the trail and bleeding. This is when I really wish I had something with more power and able to broadcast where someone might actually be listening. We were in a NF and not too far out of a hosted CG. I attended the gent and wifey drove back to the CG and reported it.

I'd love to know GMRS is monitored by State and Federal (like Forestry), but still I have to broadcast strong enough.

Frequencies lead to which which type of comm's may be best suited... First time in this situation, all worked out fine (except his truck), yet this is something I'd like to fix/add!

 

[M Rose]

I'd love to know GMRS is monitored by State and Federal (like Forestry), but still I have to broadcast strong enough.

Frequencies lead to which which type of comm's may be best suited... First time in this situation, all worked out fine (except his truck), yet this is something I'd like to fix/add!

GMRS is not monitored by any EMS service…EMS runs on comercial bands just outside of Amateur Radio frequencies. IE, La Grande Ranger District runs on 170.52500. the top of the 2m band is 148.000000. So a typical 2m radio won’t even work for EMS without modifications.

Now with all of that said, the best bet for your scenario would be getting your General Class Amature License and a multi band HF radio (Icom IC-7100, Yasue FT-991A for examples, along with a MARS/CAP mod. This would allow you to jump onto 20m, 40m and 80m where there are local nets scattered through the day and people monitoring for EMS 24/7. The MARS/CAP mod you allow you to broadcast on a EMS frequency in the case of emergency.

One last piece of knowledge. In your situation you described earlier, having a radio with the MARS/CAP mod and the EMS frequencies programmed into the radio you would have been able to call for help even without a license. Non licensed individuals can use frequencies that aren’t dedicated to the military in the event of an emergency. An emergency is classified as Loss of Life, Limb, Eyesight, or threatening personal damage (car about to go off the cliff, Simone is holding a gun to you, ect).

 

[RJ Howell]

Thank you M Rose! My first thought was What frequency is that NF CG host on? He certainly could have heard me.

I have debated HAM for some time now.

 

[M Rose]

Thank you M Rose! My first thought was What frequency is that NF CG host on? He certainly could have heard me.

I have debated HAM for some time now.

Camp ground host could be on any frequency… you would have to ask them… they aren’t required to monitor anything… so if they had a radio up there, more than likely they had amateur radio.

 

[RJ Howell]

Camp ground host could be on any frequency… you would have to ask them… they aren’t required to monitor anything… so if they had a radio up there, more than likely they had amateur radio.

Interesting! He called out and EMS came in.. Since I stayed at the scene, I didn't have the chance to ask him.. I assumed he a NF emergency frequency (2 way). Cell had no chance for miles.. I'll ask next time in the area. Now I'm very curious!

I was too busy where I was to think of anything else trivial. Or so thought at the time...

 

[Kent R]

The ultimate solution is to have a two way Satellite communicator like InReach or Spot. I personally will not travel off road with out one.

There is a cost involved but you can use the SOS anytime anywhere.

 

[RJ Howell]

The ultimate solution is to have a two way Satellite communicator like InReach or Spot. I personally will not travel off road with out one.

There is a cost involved but you can use the SOS anytime anywhere.

Not sold on that quite yet. I can justify HAM though. I guess if I was a backcountry hiker Sat's could be justified, yet I have a vehicle and HAM brings more to the table or so I've read.

I do appreciate the input! Learned a bit!

 

[dpsmedic]

Not sold on that quite yet. I can justify HAM though. I guess if I was a backcountry hiker Sat's could be justified, yet I have a vehicle and HAM brings more to the table or so I've read.

I do appreciate the input! Learned a bit!

Plus 1 on the InReach, I have Ham and GMRS and still will not travel without the InReach.

 

[RedRob]

I want to make it clear that I am not trying to be critical about anyone’s past actions. My opinion is carried over from many years ago when cell phones were becoming more commonplace and I didn’t yet have one. I came across a situation where a young child was as being endangered by an adult. I intervened as best I could but I felt so terrible that there was a means of communication to summon help that I didn’t have. I bought a cell phone the next day, even though I could barely afford it. There is no way I’m going to let that happen to me again. The means is out there to summon help no matter where you are and you owe it to yourself to have it.

 

[Downs]

Any radio setup is going to fall short of a PLB. HAM radios are good to have but there are places and circumstances where it's time prohibitive to get an HF setup running.

A PLB is a one time cost to buy the unit instead of monthly/annual fees like with SPOT and INREACH, then you register it with the COSPAS/SARSAT system. After that you do occasional tests on the unit and just tuck it away until it's shelf life runs out. The COSPAS/SARSAT system covers the whole globe. It's used by the military to track and recover downed pilots and it's monitored by the Air Force in Colorado Springs.

You get into a situation you need help you bust out the PLB perform the activation steps, then your signal travels to a satellite (406mhz) then to the monitoring station who then contacts local SAR teams to conduct the rescue. When I was in the Civil Air Patrol we tracked a lot of ELTs on small aircraft which use the same system. The units also transmit a 121.5mhz homing signal so SAR teams with the right equipment can home in on you once they get close enough.

With any other approach be it GMRS, HAM, CB, smoke signals whatever, you're going to be hoping someone is listening in on that frequency at the exact time you transmit. Not only that you have to remember or find out what frequencies you are going to need to transmit on to get help. A PLB handles all this and you know there's someone listening on the other side.

The units can be pricey. I think the McMurdo Fast Find is one of the more affordable options and I think it runs about 230 dollars on Amazon with next day delivery if you have prime.

 

[ChadHahn]

With InReach and APRS on ham radios you can send text messages to communicate with people when you're out of cell range. You can either let people know you're OK or if you need help but not bad enough to trigger a rescue you can let them know to send assistance.

 

[MMc]

I use a Inreach to stay in contact with loved ones. I have not used it for a emergency. I am very impressed as to how well it works. It might take a minute but best I have used. IMHO it will take a while for help to show but they will.

 

[Flipper]

I have debated how to go about this and up till the last run, haven't been out of cell service when we've come upon another requiring assistance. This time we were in a valley an he was off the trail and bleeding. This is when I really wish I had something with more power and able to broadcast where someone might actually be listening. We were in a NF and not too far out of a hosted CG. I attended the gent and wifey drove back to the CG and reported it.

I'd love to know GMRS is monitored by State and Federal (like Forestry), but still I have to broadcast strong enough.

Frequencies lead to which which type of comm's may be best suited... First time in this situation, all worked out fine (except his truck), yet this is something I'd like to fix/add!

IMO, PLB hands down. I can think of a dozen reasons in a serious medical emergency for a PLB over a radio. Here a a few.
1. Exact location of the emergency not at location of vehicle.
2. Who ya gonna call Ghostbusters? So you make a contact on your radio to another Overlander, what are they going to do? Get on your HF rig, what band, what specific freq, spin the dial an hail a mayday, hope someone gets the call in another state or miles away? If you do make contact how are they suppose to know what rescue organization to call for the location the emergency is in? 911? CRITICAL TIME INVOLVED
3. Speaking of exact location 99% of folks don’t know a lon from a lat. so you can tell then your down the dirt trail a bit make a left at the third tree stump and we are by the creek.
4. Vehicle and radio disabled.
5. YOU just had a heart attack, does your passenger, Wife, Kids. Know how to operate the radio, hail a mayday, give a lon and lat location?
We have been in the Backcountry in Co. for weeks, have every known repeater, simplex, channel know to man programmed and have the radio on scan full time and not hear so much as a crackle over the airwaves. So if you think your going to hail a mayday and the Calvary is going to roll over the ridge with their overland flags flying that isn’t going to happen.

If me or my Family’s life is on the line I will spend the bucks on the correct equipment. Where it will operate anywhere in the world, give the exact location of the emergency, the correct emergency organization is contacted with all my personal info ASAP. For a successful rescue.
I have more radios that you can shake a stick at. It’s just using the right tool for the right job.

 

[M Rose]

IMO, PLB hands down. I can think of a dozen reasons in a serious medical emergency for a PLB over a radio. Here a a few.
1. Exact location of the emergency not at location of vehicle.
2. Who ya gonna call Ghostbusters? So you make a contact on your radio to another Overlander, what are they going to do? Get on your HF rig, what band, what specific freq, spin the dial an hail a mayday, hope someone gets the call in another state or miles away? If you do make contact how are they suppose to know what rescue organization to call for the location the emergency is in? 911? CRITICAL TIME INVOLVED
3. Speaking of exact location 99% of folks don’t know a lon from a lat. so you can tell then your down the dirt trail a bit make a left at the third tree stump and we are by the creek.
4. Vehicle and radio disabled.
5. YOU just had a heart attack, does your passenger, Wife, Kids. Know how to operate the radio, hail a mayday, give a lon and lat location?
We have been in the Backcountry in Co. for weeks, have every known repeater, simplex, channel know to man programmed and have the radio on scan full time and not hear so much as a crackle over the airwaves. So if you think your going to hail a mayday and the Calvary is going to roll over the ridge with their overland flags flying that isn’t going to happen.

If me or my Family’s life is on the line I will spend the bucks on the correct equipment. Where it will operate anywhere in the world, give the exact location of the emergency, the correct emergency organization is contacted with all my personal info ASAP. For a successful rescue.
I have more radios that you can shake a stick at. It’s just using the right tool for the right job.

If you had your General License for amateur radio you would know that any of the five 60m frequencies are monitored 24/7 for emergency situations. 20m, 40m and 80m hold emergency nets 24 hours a day at the top of each hour… to break a net just cal “Breaker” and they will give you priority to relay your information.
As for exact location, a lot of HT’s (not Baofeng) have gps built in.

Several years ago, a few people were up wood cutting just outside of Baker City, Oregon when a saw kicked back and cut the guy real good. They had an inreach device, the first people on screen were the Baker County Sheriff and a deputy. It was 4 hours beforelife flight was called and landed… a radio would have gotten the correct responders to the location the first time… needless to say the guy died because the wrong people showed up. Voice trumps text 9 out of 10 times.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

If you had your General License for amateur radio you would know that any of the five 60m frequencies are monitored 24/7 for emergency situations. 20m, 40m and 80m hold emergency nets 24 hours a day at the top of each hour… to break a net just cal “Breaker” and they will give you priority to relay your information.
As for exact location, a lot of HT’s (not Baofeng) have gps built in.

Several years ago, a few people were up wood cutting just outside of Baker City, Oregon when a saw kicked back and cut the guy real good. They had an inreach device, the first people on screen were the Baker County Sheriff and a deputy. It was 4 hours beforelife flight was called and landed… a radio would have gotten the correct responders to the location the first time… needless to say the guy died because the wrong people showed up. Voice trumps text 9 out of 10 times.

I'm a little lost, maybe for not having been to Baker County. But wouldnt you want Baker County Sheriff to be the first ones to respond? I would think that's just who you were aiming for. How is reaching out on a radio any better than that? I mean that as a real question. What took 4 hours, I dont know. What was the delay? Was the response to the text slow, was the sheriff slow to relay the call to Med Flight, or was the Med Flight chopper slow?

I have a CB, FRS, and someday maybe a Ham, but I'm not ruling out PLB for my next trip.

 

[ChadHahn]

I think he's saying that if they could have talked to someone in person they could have had a helicopter send right away instead of waiting for the sheriff to come and then for him to decide that emergency transport was needed.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Eh, I dont know...I have worked for a private ambulance company, and alternately have been in a position where med flight was needed. Med Flight doesn't usually just mobilize at the say so of some random person on a HAM, I dont think. There are official channels through which a med flight is activated. Having police, fire or ems on scene would likely have to be one of those prerequisites, as a professional first responder of some sort (most likely ALS) would be in contact with the local hospitals when deciding whether or not to order the flight.

"Sone guy named Jimmy on the HAM radio is calling for a Med Flight. Better spin the chopper up!" Is not how it usually works. ALS would have to be in contact with a hospital to work out the patient's condition, injury, and distance to a hospital in the area that can handle that level of trauma. Then take into account wind, weather, the location of any ad-hoc landing pad, the time needed for the pre-flight check list and flight time, powering down the chopper, hand off report, loading, flight to whatever hospital, where to land there, possibly more ground transport (no, not every hospital has a helipad on the roof), etc

Theres a lot to consider in the equation, and a random dude on the HAM is not going to be the arbiter. Sheriff, BLS, and more likely ALS in conjunction with medical directors of local hospitals within a couple hundred miles.

Chances are, if the man died, they either chose the chopper thinking it would be shorter, but it was longer than they thought. Or, his injuries were just not survivable.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

If you had your General License for amateur radio you would know that any of the five 60m frequencies are monitored 24/7 for emergency situations. 20m, 40m and 80m hold emergency nets 24 hours a day at the top of each hour… to break a net just cal “Breaker” and they will give you priority to relay your information.
As for exact location, a lot of HT’s (not Baofeng) have gps built in.

Several years ago, a few people were up wood cutting just outside of Baker City, Oregon when a saw kicked back and cut the guy real good. They had an inreach device, the first people on screen were the Baker County Sheriff and a deputy. It was 4 hours beforelife flight was called and landed… a radio would have gotten the correct responders to the location the first time… needless to say the guy died because the wrong people showed up. Voice trumps text 9 out of 10 times.

Wrong people showed up? Who exactly are the "correct responders" if not the designated first responders? Med flight isnt coming out because a logger on a HAM is calling for help. They send BLS or ALS depending on the described injury. ALS, once on scene, determines whether or not to bundle and drive, or call local hospitals and run info by the ER docs and / or medical directors to see if a local hospital can handle the type of injury, then do some calculating as to whether or not driving or flying is faster. Or even if a chopper is available. Sounds like driving in an ambulance might have been faster in that case but still may not have saved the man's life. Sounds like a horrible situation either way.

 

[M Rose]

Wrong people showed up? Who exactly are the "correct responders" if not the designated first responders? Med flight isnt coming out because a logger on a HAM is calling for help. They send BLS or ALS depending on the described injury. ALS, once on scene, determines whether or not to bundle and drive, or call local hospitals and run info by the ER docs and / or medical directors to see if a local hospital can handle the type of injury, then do some calculating as to whether or not driving or flying is faster. Or even if a chopper is available. Sounds like driving in an ambulance might have been faster in that case but still may not have saved the man's life. Sounds like a horrible situation either way.

4 hour drive up to the spot vs 20 minute chopper. The SOS from a SPOT sends out SAR, SAR didn’t know to bring medivac, repellers, litter crew… ect ect… all of this is part of the required request for equipment we ask someone calling in for help, along with the best coordinates for evac (both ambulance, helicopters, bush plane, ect).

 

[Billiebob]

Technology is wonderful til it dies. A rig on fire will leave you with nothing. Best bet is a plan filed with someone close or trust worthy. I used to mountain climb and ski back country 40 yearsago. We registered our route, trip, itinery with the Parks Service and checked out end of the trip.

The only guarantee is people knowing where to find you.