Electric powered overland vehicle

[Ubiety]

Wrong. It takes more energy to move a heavier vehicle, no matter the vehicle type. You get some portion of that back on a long downhill, but going over rocks and boulders, regen doesn't have time to kick in.

Don't forget that unexpected cold weather is good for batteries/range.

 

[Viking1204]

Don't forget that unexpected cold weather is good for batteries/range.

You mean not good for batteries/range?

 

[Ubiety]

You mean not good for batteries/range?

That was tongue in cheek ;)

 

[tjZ06]

Maybe one day when solar power panels are efficient enough to power the pickup while exploring sunny regions.

That can't/won't happen, it's literally not possible within the footprint of a vehicle.

There isn't enough roof/hood/tonneau cover surface area to power an electric truck/SUV even at 100% panel efficiency. The sun's energy is about 1000w per square meter, or 92.94w per square ft. Even at 100% efficiency (typical current solar panels are in the ~20 efficiency range, FWIW) it's simply not enough. The Rivian is 217" by 79" wide. That means it has about ~120 square feet of surface area on the "top" sides of it (it's actually a good bit less since corners are rounded, the windshield takes up a significant portion even when viewed from directly overhead, etc). If every square inch of horizontal area was covered in 100% efficient solar panels (aka, about 5 times more efficient than anything we have now) you're going to collect 92.94w x 120sqft x 1hr =~ 11kWh but a Rivian R1T uses 48kWh/100 miles. Extending that, it would imply that with 100% efficient solar panels in the most direct sunlight possible for an hour you'd get ~22 miles of range. Now you might argue that ~22 MPH is a reasonable speed for off road/expedition travel. But at those speeds, off road, with aired-down tires etc. the efficiency of the R1T would drop. Let's also not forget we made some HUGE rounding errors in favor of solar.

First, and obviously most egregious we assumed 100% solar panel efficiency. Again, we're at ~20% right now. So even if we triple efficiency to 60% you're still talking less than 10 miles of range/hour. And that's only during peak sunlight hours with 100% direct sun. What if you're in the woods? Or there are clouds? What about morning/evening when the sun isn't directly above you? What if your panels get dusty or muddy on the trail? Next, you're not actually going to have 120sqft. of solar on the vehicle. Finally, we're ignoring how much less efficient slow travel on dirt trails is than rolling down a flat, paved highway.

Anyway, the point is it's not a matter of making better solar panels, even at 100% efficiency which is a complete impossibility something like a Rivian will not and CANNOT be self-sufficient. The best you could get would be something that might have an array of solar panels to deploy once parked and be able to charge itself back up over a few days of perfect conditions - and even that is far-fetched with current tech.

-TJ

 

[bgenlvtex]

I can't wait until Matt's Off Road Recovery and Trail Mater mount a 20KW diesel generator with straight exhaust so they can go rescue EV adventurers.

 

[DosTacos]

Electric vehicles are a wonderful technology (or more correctly technologies) to be sure - though not without their own set of issues - and they definitely have their place in our society. Currently that place is near larger population centers that have the infrastructure to support them. If your form of overlanding keeps you near charging stations then more power to you (pun intended). It amazes me that some would consider taking an electric vehicle to more rural places which cannot support them and then expect someone who was prepared to tow them out - especially while applying regenerative braking and increasing the wear and tear and resource consumption of someone who actually prepared and acted as a good samaritan.

Overland Bound Founding Principles snippet
Be prepared
Safety First. The trip defines the requirements. Be aware of the requirements of any journey and prepare. We prefer epic tales of adventure without the tragedy, and keep the rubber side down.

Help each other
That’s what community is all about. It takes a village. When traveling the world, or off grid, human kindness is a valuable asset that could mean survival. Take it seriously.

Totally agree with "Help each other" but "Come on man" helping yourself out and being prepared needs to be a part of your "calculus".

Apologies if I touched a nerve. I never travel unprepared or put myself in a situation where I would need to lean on the preparedness of others intentionally. It was meant to be more of a fun comment. Electric vehicles (and charging stations for that matter) will become more prevalent in the outdoors. Just as horses and mules once traveled and for the most part, formed the trails we traverse today. I'm not sure why you would think an ICE has any more right to be on these trails than an EV. We can all enjoy nature. I just choose to do so quietly without emissions. Edit to add that I mentioned in a previous comment that I don't typically travel more than 150 miles off grid. This is so that my 300mi range still has enough to get me back.

 

[Walkers]

That can't/won't happen, it's literally not possible within the footprint of a vehicle.

There isn't enough roof/hood/tonneau cover surface area to power an electric truck/SUV even at 100% panel efficiency. The sun's energy is about 1000w per square meter, or 92.94w per square ft. Even at 100% efficiency (typical current solar panels are in the ~20 efficiency range, FWIW) it's simply not enough. The Rivian is 217" by 79" wide. That means it has about ~120 square feet of surface area on the "top" sides of it (it's actually a good bit less since corners are rounded, the windshield takes up a significant portion even when viewed from directly overhead, etc). If every square inch of horizontal area was covered in 100% efficient solar panels (aka, about 5 times more efficient than anything we have now) you're going to collect 92.94w x 120sqft x 1hr =~ 11kWh but a Rivian R1T uses 48kWh/100 miles. Extending that, it would imply that with 100% efficient solar panels in the most direct sunlight possible for an hour you'd get ~22 miles of range. Now you might argue that ~22 MPH is a reasonable speed for off road/expedition travel. But at those speeds, off road, with aired-down tires etc. the efficiency of the R1T would drop. Let's also not forget we made some HUGE rounding errors in favor of solar.

First, and obviously most egregious we assumed 100% solar panel efficiency. Again, we're at ~20% right now. So even if we triple efficiency to 60% you're still talking less than 10 miles of range/hour. And that's only during peak sunlight hours with 100% direct sun. What if you're in the woods? Or there are clouds? What about morning/evening when the sun isn't directly above you? What if your panels get dusty or muddy on the trail? Next, you're not actually going to have 120sqft. of solar on the vehicle. Finally, we're ignoring how much less efficient slow travel on dirt trails is than rolling down a flat, paved highway.

Anyway, the point is it's not a matter of making better solar panels, even at 100% efficiency which is a complete impossibility something like a Rivian will not and CANNOT be self-sufficient. The best you could get would be something that might have an array of solar panels to deploy once parked and be able to charge itself back up over a few days of perfect conditions - and even that is far-fetched with current tech.

-TJ

Only problem I see with your math is that you don’t drive all day every day. So sitting eating lunch just gained you 22 miles, parked camping for a couple days on the beach just got you significantly more. Not saying this is a panacea for EV woes, but worth exploring, even if it makes it equal to carrying a 5 gallon can of gas it might be worthwhile.

 

[Ubiety]

Apologies if I touched a nerve. I never travel unprepared or put myself in a situation where I would need to lean on the preparedness of others intentionally. It was meant to be more of a fun comment. Electric vehicles (and charging stations for that matter) will become more prevalent in the outdoors. Just as horses and mules once traveled and for the most part, formed the trails we traverse today. I'm not sure why you would think an ICE has any more right to be on these trails than an EV. We can all enjoy nature. I just choose to do so quietly without emissions.

I'm not sure why you would think an ICE has any more right to be on these trails than an EV.
I never said that and I agree that progress will be made - EVs in more remote places are just not viable today. If I could get a Mr Fusion option with an EV I would seriously think about it; I want to want an EV but it does not make sense for the places that I go. I was reacting to the two places that you called for a tow should you run out of power.

I just choose to do so quietly without emissions.
Maybe emissions in your general vicinity but electricity generation in its current state is not clean nor is it always friendly to nature.

 

[tjZ06]

Only problem I see with your math is that you don’t drive all day every day. So sitting eating lunch just gained you 22 miles, parked camping for a couple days on the beach just got you significantly more. Not saying this is a panacea for EV woes, but worth exploring, even if it makes it equal to carrying a 5 gallon can of gas it might be worthwhile.

Sure, but perhaps you missed the part where I assumed 100% efficiency in the panels. With current tech it'd be more like 5 miles in an hour, and only if the vehicle had 120sqft of those magic 100% efficient panels (which isn't actually feasible). In reality you'd probably have about half that area. So we're down to 2-3mi/hr. There are only a couple hours a day when the sun is directly overhead, so even that 2-3 mi/hr of charging is only possible for a couple hours a day... so maybe you can get 10mi of range back in a full, sunny day?

-TJ

 

[orange01z28]

I'm not a fan of electric cars for a variety of reasons, but I won't even get into that here. The combination of electric mobility and overlanding is certainly exciting.

Recently, there was a very interesting experiment, or rather a practical test, carried out by a German manufacturer of overlanding equipment. The vehicle used was a Nissan eNV200. This was equipped camping-like and then it went on the test tour. The route led from southern Germany to Sweden and interesting knowledge was gained. For example, that the theoretical range was rarely utilized, because the overlanders were relaxed and rarely drove more than 200 kilometers per day. Instead, they preferred to see great things along the way, sightseeing and hiking tours and walks, etc. The vehicle was mostly charged overnight at campsites. And also during the day at charging stations along the road. The charging time was then spent with sightseeing and the like. It was never a problem to find a charging possibility on that trip. Overall, it was a very relaxed trip and it worked quite well.

Campsites I go to don't even have toilets, let alone electricity

 

[K12]

Campsites I go to don't even have toilets, let alone electricity

Bring along your Diesel generator and 20 gallons of fuel to charge up at the campsite.

 

[Walkers]

Since the Rivian has come out and I have seen some being outfitted, I suspect it is only a matter of time before solutions start cropping up. I would imagine fold out solar pane arrays will be tried, as well as generators. Another thing I suspect will come to life are large battery packs to be used as range extenders. This would be great for camping as well, it would put small power stations by the wayside if you could carry that much amperage with you for a long weekend. Might even make refrigeration possible for your tent.

 

[bgenlvtex]

EV's are a polarizing subject, even more so when people feel like they are being compelled (not in this thread no, that isn't happening) to utilize them by less than organic motivation.

EV/ICE is that point where everyone decides what is "overlanding" to them, and whatever that is it is correct to the person who matters. If EV is what gets you there and brings you back and it makes you happy, then by all means. Similarly ICE, no hate in either direction.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Since the Rivian has come out and I have seen some being outfitted, I suspect it is only a matter of time before solutions start cropping up. I would imagine fold out solar pane arrays will be tried, as well as generators. Another thing I suspect will come to life are large battery packs to be used as range extenders. This would be great for camping as well, it would put small power stations by the wayside if you could carry that much amperage with you for a long weekend. Might even make refrigeration possible for your tent.

Has anyone looked at the undercarriage of a Rivian that can express general design ? Is it body on frame? Independent suspension? Are stub axles and CV joints primary design components?

More important(by far) than the means of power generation is the design methods used to transfer that power to the ground. I will atest that I am an avowed member of the Church of Solid Front Axle and a devout disciple of Saint Articulation, Patron Saint of Traction and am not ashamed to cast a critical eye on suspension types of a less robust nature..

 

[Viking1204]

I do believe it's just a matter of time before EV's get a big upgrade in the distance they can travel. The company below is developing a new battery technology that reportedly made it 752 miles with a Tesla! Now they are testing with BMW,
and say that the Gemini Dual-Chemistry battery gets 600 Mile Range in a BMW iX!

Home

 

[RideFlyDiveJeep]

My lease ended with my '19 JLUR I traded it for a '22 JLUR 4xe. I couldn't be happier. I have spare power, torque, and HP for towing the trailer and gear. Plus there is a redundancy factor with having 2 power sources. I think hybrid offers the best of both worlds. Hopefully battery and solar tech will advance and become available then we can add range to vehicles, but now just charge a 12v battery and run a fridge. Fingers crossed for the engineers to make it happen though.

But to answer solar on an EV. To get 1.6kw (level 1 120/16a) to 7.6kw (level 2 240/32a) you would need a big array of super-efficient panels and lighter & more dense batteries. Even then Lv1 takes 12.5 hrs and Lv2 takes 2.5 hrs to charge my 17kwh battery. The Aptera completely covered in solar and being a super efficient design can only get 40mi added per day, and we drive bricks on wheels.

 

[shansonpac]

Wrong. It takes more energy to move a heavier vehicle, no matter the vehicle type. You get some portion of that back on a long downhill, but going over rocks and boulders, regen doesn't have time to kick in.

I agree with the first part. Max regeneration works regardless of speed and time. I have a gauge in my 4xe that shows the flow of power and it kicks in with deceleration or downhill no matter how short a period. I had an interesting experience on the Mojave Road. East to West from Cima Rd is a lot of long, gentle (I use this term loosely....) downhill. I looked at my battery status at one point and I had gained 10% of the battery. I probably ran electric on 20% of the distance. Of course, uphill is nearly all ICE with battery reserve when extra power is needed. I also have a display that shows the combination of ICE and electrical power being used. According to the manufacturer, there is always 15% of the battery available to add power to the ICE when needed, even if the battery level reads <1%. the 2.0L supercharged engine combined with electric can deliver 375 hp to the dirt when needed.

Of course, as Scotty always said, "The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to gum it up...."

 

[roots66]

Problem solved.

 

[WTSMatt]

It seems there’s a lot of sh***ing on EV going on. Is it perfect? No. Is it for everyone’s style? No. Is the electricity needed to charge it not environmentally friendly? Now we’re splitting hairs. As with all new technologies there will be nay-sayers. Seatbelts were boo-hooed. Absolutely it is not where it needs to be for extended overlanding trips but for quick get aways not on technical trails it’s awesome. The end result is folks getting out, getting away, and causing the least amount of damage they can while doing it. If charging up costs 50 carbon whatevers and fueling costs 51 it’s still an overall win. My 2 cents.

 

[tjZ06]

Problem solved.
View attachment 233234

I know this is a joke, but what is that array, maybe 12x15'? Go back to my prior posts and do the math, then figure losing ~50% range towing it around and you'll find even with an array like that long-term self-sustained EV travel just won't work.

-TJ