DryBones Outback won't start, please assist!

[bowserwafer]

Car in question: 2007 Subaru Outback 2.5i aka Dry Bones

Tuesday last week Bones died on me driving home. Hubby rescued us and towed Bones home.

Original diagnosis: bad starter and spark plugs

Bones still will not start.

Second diagnosis: bad battery.

Took the battery to have it tested. Bad cell. Bought new battery. Bones still will not start.

Third possible diagnosis: alternator.

However, the parts store I use can't check the alternator in store bc their machine has a broken adapter that fits Bones' alternator. They suggested I bring him in with the alternator in place buuuut ... If he won't start....

Decided to try an OBD2 sensor. BUT-
It wouldn't even cycle. It showed zero codes which I know is wrong. Tested, checked, and changed fuses. Nothing. I cleaned Bones' port. Still nothing.

I'm at a loss. *Edited to add: we tested the fuel pump by pulling the line to the filter and fuel is making its way from the tank to the filter just fine.*

Here's a link to his dry pitiful cough:

 

[Boostpowered]

From the sound of the video you have electricity pull a plug out and set it on a steel grounded spot of the engine and turn over the engine watch that plug to see if there is spark on the plug if there is spark on the plug your next problems are fuel and air, check that the fuel pump is working this can usually be done by listening to the gas tank area for a whine when you turn the key to acc if not sure pull the fuel line into a bottle and try they key again if no fuel pump is bad or fuel filter clogged. If its not spark or fuel you move on to air is filter clogged or wet, if not the mass air or map meter may be bad this is usually checked with a multimeter not sure what you need to do specifically on that but a subaru forum would probably be more help . Just listening to the video i have the feeling you have a fuel pump or filter issue it sounds dry to me

 

[Boostpowered]

If you dont have any spark coil pack or distibutor may be bad

 

[bowserwafer]

From the sound of the video you have electricity pull a plug out and set it on a steel grounded spot of the engine and turn over the engine watch that plug to see if there is spark on the plug if there is spark on the plug your next problems are fuel and air, check that the fuel pump is working this can usually be done by listening to the gas tank area for a whine when you turn the key to acc if not sure pull the fuel line into a bottle and try they key again if no fuel pump is bad or fuel filter clogged. If its not spark or fuel you move on to air is filter clogged or wet, if not the mass air or map meter may be bad this is usually checked with a multimeter not sure what you need to do specifically on that but a subaru forum would probably be more help . Just listening to the video i have the feeling you have a fuel pump or filter issue it sounds dry to me

I did forget to add that we know the fuel pump is working. We pulled the line and fuel is moving from the tank to the front just fine.
So we would need to pull a spark plug out to test? Just clarifying.

 

[Boostpowered]

Im not a subaru mechanic but on every gas vehicle ive messed with yes you unscrew one of the sparkplug from the engine reattach plug to the plug wire and touch the threaded part of the plug on a steel area that is well grounded step back and watch as someone tries to start it

 

[Boostpowered]

It definately sound like something is lacking, did you check all the fuses to make sure none burnt out while messing with electical stuff?

 

[bowserwafer]

Im not a subaru mechanic but on every gas vehicle ive messed with yes you unscrew one of the sparkplug from the engine reattach plug to the plug wire and touch the threaded part of the plug on a steel area that is well grounded step back and watch as someone tries to start it

I just want to make sure. I know very little about cars and how they work, I'm trying to learn, and I always double check so I don't screw up. Only now with the Subaru have I wanted to try and learn lol

 

[bowserwafer]

It definately sound like something is lacking, did you check all the fuses to make sure none burnt out while messing with electical stuff?

Yep. I made hubby go through every single fuse with me and show me just to be sure

 

[Boostpowered]

If you have been trying to start it for a while its possible the engine may be flooded with gas when you pull the plug use a flashlight and see if it is wet if its flooded pull out all the plugs out completely and either let it dry out on its own or pull the fuel pump fuse and turn the engine over be careful if doing this gas will go in alot of directions out of plug holes

 

[Boostpowered]

Honestly a subaru specific forum would likely be able to help more. The things ive mentioned are just basic checks to see if the 3 most critical things are there fuel, air and spark. If it is computer or sensor related i wouldnt know where to start since im not familiar with subarus system. Another easy thing i can add check all the vaccum/boost lines if they poped off or are cracked that can cause crazy starting issues also

 

[ZRex]

Based on what I can hear and see in the video it looks like the crankshaft is still spinning properly but there is no resistance in the sound. I would be looking for compression issues. Has the timing belt been replaced recently? How many miles are on the car? Subaru's are picky about having timing belts replaced at the proper interval (Every 105K miles on this model) and when the timing belts slip or break the valves will contact the pistons as it is an interference engine.

It can be incredibly hard to diagnose cars without having them in front of you, but in my experience from the evidence I have, I would suggest that you're looking at new (or rebuilding) heads because of bent valves, and a new timing kit (Don't skimp on this, you want all three idler pulleys, the tensioner, the water pump, and the belt all included in the kit, like a Dayco WP307K1B).

I hope I'm wrong about this as it tends to be an expensive repair, but I've seen a handful of Subaru's do this and it's almost exactly the same every time.

Best of luck!

 

[Boostpowered]

If what zrex said is the case your timing belt cover should only have 3 to 4 bolts holding it on take that off and look at the belt you should notice pretty quick if the belt has broken.

 

[ZRex]

If what zrex said is the case your timing belt cover should only have 3 to 4 bolts holding it on take that off and look at the belt you should notice pretty quick if the belt has broken.

This is a good point, though this model has two timing covers. The left side timing cover should have a small handful of 10MM bolts holding it on though they may be difficult to get to.



If you get this timing cover off you may be able to see if the belt is broken or feel how much tension it has, if the belt is not stiff when pushed on then it's likely a broken belt, BUT it is also possible that the belt has just skipped teeth (or teeth on an old belt may get carved out, though I've only seen this on old Honda's).

Here's an example of a Subaru with low compression, you can hear how freely it turns over with no resistance from the cylinders compressing the air because the valves are held open slightly by the bent stems.

Subaru With Bent Valves/No Compression

And this is a Subaru compression test, listen carefully as he is cranking it over at 4:00, you can hear the resistance of the cylinders as they go through the strokes of the 4-stroke cycle.

Subaru Compression Test

I hope this helps make sense of what your car is doing. It really sucks when things go awry but we are here to help!

 

[Boostpowered]

I definately think hes right about this i watched a few videos and it seems this is what it is, ive also noticed that some dont bend valves and some do when the belt pops the only way to find out without a compression test or engine tear down is to replace the belt and at a minimum the tensioner pully and try to start it , it will either run like crap and have no power or will be just fine depending on the circumstances that happened when the belt went. Some times you get lucky with these things sometimes not hopefully your the lucky ones.

 

[ZRex]

I definately think hes right about this i watched a few videos and it seems this is what it is, ive also noticed that some dont bend valves and some do when the belt pops the only way to find out without a compression test or engine tear down is to replace the belt and at a minimum the tensioner pully and try to start it , it will either run like crap and have no power or will be just fine depending on the circumstances that happened when the belt went. Some times you get lucky with these things sometimes not hopefully your the lucky ones.

Just a little clarification on this, non-interference engines will not bend valves without a foreign object because of a broken or slipped timing belt because the pistons and valves can be fully extended in their stroke and not interfere with each other, meaning there will be no contact. Interference engines (Subaru in this case) will bend valves any time the crankshaft and camshaft correlation varies by too much as the pistons and valves occupy the same physical space at different times in the stroke, when you take the incredibly precise timing away from these events then contact is inevitable.

View attachment 123221

If you're going to tear the engine down far enough to replace the belt, you'll want to go ahead and do it all together. If it is a belt malfunction you can count on valve problems.

I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, nor the bearer of bad news, and my arm-chair diagnostic is just that, at best. But, I have spent a majority of my life doing this stuff and professionally since I graduated high school, I've seen pretty much this exact situation time and time again. I still hope I'm wrong, but I will offer any guidance I can if this is a project you decide to tackle yourself (some mechanics tools required, though it's really not bad if you're mechanically inclined.).

 

[bowserwafer]

You guys have given me quite a lot of information that I personally cannot begin to understand. Thankfully my husband is far more mechanically inclined than I am so when he gets home we will go through each of your answers and he can help me answer and all.

I'm still crossing my fingers for something stupid simple but after watching the video links my gut isn't in on the hope.

 

[ZRex]

You guys have given me quite a lot of information that I personally cannot begin to understand. Thankfully my husband is far more mechanically inclined than I am so when he gets home we will go through each of your answers and he can help me answer and all.

I'm still crossing my fingers for something stupid simple but after watching the video links my gut isn't in on the hope.

Keep us updated please!

 

[bowserwafer]

So there's this....

 

[ZRex]

So there's this....
View attachment 123343

That's what I was afraid of. Do you think you'll be tackling it yourselves or outsourcing?

 

[bowserwafer]

That's what I was afraid of. Do you think you'll be tackling it yourselves or outsourcing?

By the looks of my husband being elbow deep in the engine bay and asking my mom for a price quote on the timing belt, I'd say tacking it ourselves. He is going to research thoroughly how to do it before ripping anything out though