Does the 80 Series Land Cruiser deserve all the hype?
- Thread starter Arkansas_SR5
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In the end I suppose I didn't quite get all the excitement. At first I was over the moon to finally have the vaunted solid front axle, but I wasn't overly impressed with the suspension travel it afforded, which was severely limited by the radius arms. And the live axle didn't seem to translate into miraculous off-road ability either; in fact its considerable heft made it less than ideal on many backcountry forest trails where a lighter, smaller, and less top-heavy rig would've gotten through with ease. And besides, they're not known for being incredibly strong compared to a Dana 60, for example. In any case, maybe the 80 series is better suited to rocky, open terrain in the American West.
As to their supposedly unbeatable reliability, plenty of older Tahoes and Cummins Rams get abused and casually maintained for 300k miles plus to little fanfare; meanwhile, it's considered a minor miracle if an 80 series makes it that far without blowing a head gasket. I think a lot of the uber-dependable mystique comes from often well-endowed owners who don't mind dumping money into them. Nobody talks about all of them that were junked in the Obama era when they were basically worthless..
Now I'm not an expert, but I have read more on the LC forums than I care to admit, and I'm not sure Toyota's straight six engines are deserving of all the fawning reviews either. The 2UZ-FE makes more power more efficiently, and burn hardly any oil, and don't have to be opened up every 200k miles or so like the 1FZ. And don't even get me started on the turbodiesels. The 1HDT apparently needs new rod bearings every 100,000 km. That is virtually unheard of in any car except for in BMW's E60 M5, which is widely decried as a poorly engineered basket-case. But apparently Toyota gets a pass because of the mythos built up around the brand and especially the Land Cruiser badge. The 1HZ seems to have glowing reviews, but you might as well walk at that point.
All that being said, the truck certainly had its charms, and I did enjoy it in some respects, especially in the snow. It did also have a tough no-nonsense appearance while still being beautiful in its own way. And it seemed like it would take more abuse off-road than a Tacoma or similar. But the more expensive and painstaking maintenance regime counteracts that to a certain degree.
Oh yeah, and I really want another one. Maybe I'm just a masochist. Or am I missing something?
As to their supposedly unbeatable reliability, plenty of older Tahoes and Cummins Rams get abused and casually maintained for 300k miles plus to little fanfare; meanwhile, it's considered a minor miracle if an 80 series makes it that far without blowing a head gasket. I think a lot of the uber-dependable mystique comes from often well-endowed owners who don't mind dumping money into them. Nobody talks about all of them that were junked in the Obama era when they were basically worthless..
Now I'm not an expert, but I have read more on the LC forums than I care to admit, and I'm not sure Toyota's straight six engines are deserving of all the fawning reviews either. The 2UZ-FE makes more power more efficiently, and burn hardly any oil, and don't have to be opened up every 200k miles or so like the 1FZ. And don't even get me started on the turbodiesels. The 1HDT apparently needs new rod bearings every 100,000 km. That is virtually unheard of in any car except for in BMW's E60 M5, which is widely decried as a poorly engineered basket-case. But apparently Toyota gets a pass because of the mythos built up around the brand and especially the Land Cruiser badge. The 1HZ seems to have glowing reviews, but you might as well walk at that point.
All that being said, the truck certainly had its charms, and I did enjoy it in some respects, especially in the snow. It did also have a tough no-nonsense appearance while still being beautiful in its own way. And it seemed like it would take more abuse off-road than a Tacoma or similar. But the more expensive and painstaking maintenance regime counteracts that to a certain degree.
Oh yeah, and I really want another one. Maybe I'm just a masochist. Or am I missing something?
Member III
I love mine. I've owned most of the popular vehicles out there and modified most of those. I can agree with some of the cons you posted but I'm also aware the vehicle wasn't engineered to be an American commuter vehicle.
Motor wise, very few inline six, aluminum head/iron block combo's don't have head gasket issues around 200k. I just look at it as maintenance. In my opinion, all gas engines should be refreshed by 200k also. I rebuilt mine at 250k. Toyota did a coating (forgot name) on the cylinders. I have built/rebuilt quite a few motors and had never seen one that old have perfectly round cylinder bore's with the cross hatching still there. The pistons were still great as well as the crank. I was expecting to bore with new pistons, machine the crank and ended up polishing the crank, new bearings, rings and a light hone.
I do wish I had a modern V8 for long highway drives but fuel mileage wont be much diffrent. On the open highway running premium fuel I average 16-17 mpg and my record was 18 mpg. This is measured on my 270 mile trip (one way) to visit my sister. I also don't burn oil after the rebuild and again the vehicle is modified for a bit better mileage.
Most of the handling issues people complain about are due to worn out suspension and improper builds. I have no issues with how my 6200 pound SUV handles other than it handles like a 6200 pound SUV. I did also modify my suspension to improve this a bit.
I paid 6k for the vehicle with 200k on it. I do have a bit wrapped up in it after rebuilding everything. Probably around 20k when I'm done. The vehicle did cost 45k new in 1996 and there's no way I could build something newer for this amount.
I love the size which by the way is actually smaller than my 2019 extra cab Tacoma and I can sleep in the back when I want to. The only thing that could out turn it off road was my jeeps. 2004 being the newest. I had more wrapped up in my 04 TJ when I was done with it and the only thing I could say about that was it turned sharper.
If I compared my cruiser to modern vehicles it would come up short. Some of the technology was almost outdated when it was made but most of the American engines were still based on 1950's designs back then also, with the Jeep I-6 holding that candle until they stopped making the TJ.
If I had the motivation, a modern LS with a six speed. Suspension wise, I would keep it the way it is. I have custom front and rear arms giving me better travel. I would keep the solid front only because it would take too much to design an independent and I wouldn't notice the ride difference. I have a real soft suspension.
I do like my Tacoma as a driver and it is a bit more comfy. I think my main reason for the Cruiser is still the cool factor.
Motor wise, very few inline six, aluminum head/iron block combo's don't have head gasket issues around 200k. I just look at it as maintenance. In my opinion, all gas engines should be refreshed by 200k also. I rebuilt mine at 250k. Toyota did a coating (forgot name) on the cylinders. I have built/rebuilt quite a few motors and had never seen one that old have perfectly round cylinder bore's with the cross hatching still there. The pistons were still great as well as the crank. I was expecting to bore with new pistons, machine the crank and ended up polishing the crank, new bearings, rings and a light hone.
I do wish I had a modern V8 for long highway drives but fuel mileage wont be much diffrent. On the open highway running premium fuel I average 16-17 mpg and my record was 18 mpg. This is measured on my 270 mile trip (one way) to visit my sister. I also don't burn oil after the rebuild and again the vehicle is modified for a bit better mileage.
Most of the handling issues people complain about are due to worn out suspension and improper builds. I have no issues with how my 6200 pound SUV handles other than it handles like a 6200 pound SUV. I did also modify my suspension to improve this a bit.
I paid 6k for the vehicle with 200k on it. I do have a bit wrapped up in it after rebuilding everything. Probably around 20k when I'm done. The vehicle did cost 45k new in 1996 and there's no way I could build something newer for this amount.
I love the size which by the way is actually smaller than my 2019 extra cab Tacoma and I can sleep in the back when I want to. The only thing that could out turn it off road was my jeeps. 2004 being the newest. I had more wrapped up in my 04 TJ when I was done with it and the only thing I could say about that was it turned sharper.
If I compared my cruiser to modern vehicles it would come up short. Some of the technology was almost outdated when it was made but most of the American engines were still based on 1950's designs back then also, with the Jeep I-6 holding that candle until they stopped making the TJ.
If I had the motivation, a modern LS with a six speed. Suspension wise, I would keep it the way it is. I have custom front and rear arms giving me better travel. I would keep the solid front only because it would take too much to design an independent and I wouldn't notice the ride difference. I have a real soft suspension.
I do like my Tacoma as a driver and it is a bit more comfy. I think my main reason for the Cruiser is still the cool factor.
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your perspective.
How'd you manage to crack 18 mpg on the freeway? I've heard of people going as far as porting the valves on the 1FZ only to see virtually no improvement. Did you convert it to coil packs maybe?
Member III
I thought about it but I didn't want something that would be hard to get parts for. My current technology is outdated but simple.
Milled the head almost to minimum and milled the deck. That brought up my compression a bit. The rebuild alone netted me a little over 1.5 mpg. The big difference was converting to part time. That itself was 2mpg. The down side to part time is you NEED to reset the front caster. That meant new arms (deltas). The alignment specs are designed for an AWD. I'm running about 4 inch of lift. That itself makes AWD a bit touchy at 70mph. Lose the front pull and its all over the road. To make it worse, I tow a 2000 pound trailer.
I also tried all the diffrent fuel stations in my area. The Shell a bit north of me seems to get me a bit better mileage with the Arco being the worse.
Adding to my other post. If I had to choose a diffrent vehicle other than the 80, it would have to be the 100. I don't think I could sleep in the back but it checks all the other boxes, especially commuting with the V8.
Milled the head almost to minimum and milled the deck. That brought up my compression a bit. The rebuild alone netted me a little over 1.5 mpg. The big difference was converting to part time. That itself was 2mpg. The down side to part time is you NEED to reset the front caster. That meant new arms (deltas). The alignment specs are designed for an AWD. I'm running about 4 inch of lift. That itself makes AWD a bit touchy at 70mph. Lose the front pull and its all over the road. To make it worse, I tow a 2000 pound trailer.
I also tried all the diffrent fuel stations in my area. The Shell a bit north of me seems to get me a bit better mileage with the Arco being the worse.
Adding to my other post. If I had to choose a diffrent vehicle other than the 80, it would have to be the 100. I don't think I could sleep in the back but it checks all the other boxes, especially commuting with the V8.
I have to agree with the first post. I love the Land Cruiser, and maybe if I had bought one 20 years ago when they were worth barely more than scrap value, I would be happy to overlook the issues they have. But right now they are "Stupid Money". At that point where they are being sold for the hype, not the real value.
When compred to other vehicles, they are not a good value. Take a decent 00-14 Tahoe or Suburban. These can be had for well under $10K, will honestly go 300K miles, lots of room, great off road for anything other than rock crawling and the gas mileage is about the same. On road they handle like a car, smooth off road. Parts are cheap, readily available and any mechanic can work on them, no specialty shop needed. They also have the most room of any SUV on the market otherr than possible an Excursion or a School Bus.
This is only one example. Ford Expedition, Ford Explorer, Nissan Exterra, Dodge Durango, and others. All of these vehicle will go farther off road than 90% of us will ever push them, last 200K+ miles, and cost you far less in both initial purchase and upkeep.
In the end, we buy what we want. Often we buy using our hearts, not our brains. Cool factor will always bring a higher price and more demand.
Are Land Cruisers junk, heck no, are they the best value for your money, heck no.
Land Cruisers will always be cool and always have the Toyota Tax attached. If you are good with that, buy one. Just don't expect it to ever be the Budget option.
When compred to other vehicles, they are not a good value. Take a decent 00-14 Tahoe or Suburban. These can be had for well under $10K, will honestly go 300K miles, lots of room, great off road for anything other than rock crawling and the gas mileage is about the same. On road they handle like a car, smooth off road. Parts are cheap, readily available and any mechanic can work on them, no specialty shop needed. They also have the most room of any SUV on the market otherr than possible an Excursion or a School Bus.
This is only one example. Ford Expedition, Ford Explorer, Nissan Exterra, Dodge Durango, and others. All of these vehicle will go farther off road than 90% of us will ever push them, last 200K+ miles, and cost you far less in both initial purchase and upkeep.
In the end, we buy what we want. Often we buy using our hearts, not our brains. Cool factor will always bring a higher price and more demand.
Are Land Cruisers junk, heck no, are they the best value for your money, heck no.
Land Cruisers will always be cool and always have the Toyota Tax attached. If you are good with that, buy one. Just don't expect it to ever be the Budget option.
Member III
Yep
You don't buy a Toyota because their cheap or expect any fuel mileage. Hopefully you buy them because you like them and understand them. The people who expect cheap or good mileage are normally disappointed.
Dave K
Rank IV
Off-Road Ranger I
I agree with a few of the listed cons but some are to be expected with an older any brand vehicle that has not seen impeccable maintenance. Every vehicle's steering will get sloppy over time. They will all eventually burn oil. So on and so forth. At the end of the day, if you are going to own an 80 series you should have some mechanical skills and be willing to learn how to work on your own rig or have a thick wallet. Toyota is proud of the parts as evidenced by their price. Many of them are worth it compared to the aftermarket IMO. Just a few thoughts.
Member III
