DOES COUNTRY OF ORIGIN INFLUENCE YOUR PURCHASE
- Thread starter blackntan
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@Murphy Slaw
Boort
Could be, but YKK (Yoshida Kogyo Kabushiki) has been around a lot longer. The original YKK is now part of YKK Group and is well known around the world for making the highest quality Zippers. I understand that they were so focused on building the best zipper that they had to build all of their own machinery because what was available did not meet their quality requirements. That spun off in to other industries including industrial machinery, plastic hardware and architectural products.
Boort
Off-Road Ranger I
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Once upon a time, we were all warned of that cheap Japanese junk that was being peddled here in the US. Then in 1970 the Datsun 240Z hit our shores and the rest is history. I do my research, then I purchase it regardless of origin. I have an OZ tent, ( made in china ) and it is top shelf.
Pathfinder I
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Its not That , its certain countrys have reputation for manufacturing certain products Like i said scarpa boots Have out souced there products is that good or bad time will tell , like you said with jap gear it all changed yet skoda car now owned by the volk group has allthough a great little car still has a stigma surrounding it , Oz tent has moved prodution to china good or bad we cant do anything about it , The product design and qaultiy Does not seem to have changed but you still hear mutted cries of but its now made in china , There are copies every were Are they as good there made in CHINA
@blackntan
Today I'm wearing a pair of Made in USA New Balance 990's (Got 2 more at home with varying colors and degrees of wear), for hiking I've got a pair of Keen Durand Mens boots also Made in USA. If I need some work boots It'll be Carolina Kodiak's, Danners, Belleville 800's, Chippewa or maybe some Carhartt 6xxx series depending on what fits best and what I can afford to spend at the time. Most of the above are rebuild-able. All are still made in USA and meet or exceed the quality I was getting from Doc's in the early 90's and for about the same as what I paid for each of those last 2 pairs of Chinese Docs.
That said I like my "Designed in Boulder Colorado"/ made in China EcoVessel water bottle, and can say that the company has stood behind their product and been wonderful to deal with.
Boort
I never had a pair of Scarpa boots before they moved to China. I can say that when Doc Martens moved to China they went to crap overnight. First thing they changed was the "air bouncing soles" to hard rubber that provided none of the famous comfort, then they messed with the lace fasteners. My UK pairs from the late 80's early 90's each lasted 4-5 years of daily wear, the new crap was 6-9 months. Problem was they kept the price at the same as when they were made in the UK. The difference was all profit to the new owners. That was the end of it for me. I heard that they now make a few pairs in the UK again but they cost way too much and I've already moved on.
Today I'm wearing a pair of Made in USA New Balance 990's (Got 2 more at home with varying colors and degrees of wear), for hiking I've got a pair of Keen Durand Mens boots also Made in USA. If I need some work boots It'll be Carolina Kodiak's, Danners, Belleville 800's, Chippewa or maybe some Carhartt 6xxx series depending on what fits best and what I can afford to spend at the time. Most of the above are rebuild-able. All are still made in USA and meet or exceed the quality I was getting from Doc's in the early 90's and for about the same as what I paid for each of those last 2 pairs of Chinese Docs.
That said I like my "Designed in Boulder Colorado"/ made in China EcoVessel water bottle, and can say that the company has stood behind their product and been wonderful to deal with.
Boort
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Scarpa are not made in china (yet) romania. And italy. There are doc martins and ther's AIR WEAR. STILL GET AIR WEAR.
@blackntan
Here in the states they use AirWear on both the Chinese 1460 models and the "vintage 1460" models which are made in the UK. It does look like they have expanded the number of shoes made in UK and even lowered the prices on them from what I recall when I heard they were making them in the UK again. Might be worth another look but I'm gonna have to get the "I've been burned" taste out of my mouth first.
Boort
Here in the states they use AirWear on both the Chinese 1460 models and the "vintage 1460" models which are made in the UK. It does look like they have expanded the number of shoes made in UK and even lowered the prices on them from what I recall when I heard they were making them in the UK again. Might be worth another look but I'm gonna have to get the "I've been burned" taste out of my mouth first.
Boort
Benefactor
I don't buy anything from Communist counties. China, Vietnam, etc... without exception they have terrible human right record, and child labor laws are regularly ignored. Just a personal position, apologies if this is upsetting to anyone.
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Fxck upseting any one stick to your guns see were all this pc bull has got us
Advocate III
Did that happen in the early 90's? My first pair (bought in around '88) was great. Second pair the eylets had obviously changed, and they did not seem quite as nice. By the time those were worn out and I started looking at for a replacements, they all looked like crap (quality). Meanwhile the price was roughly the same as I paid for that first pair (around $100 if I recall correctly). I quit even looking at them at that point.
As others have said, contry of origin is usually not as much of a factor in my decision. That said, if I'm on the fence regarding a purchase based on cost, and I see that it is made the US, that will usually push me over the edge.
@Chili
That would line up with my experience. I wore Docs for like 10 years from 87-97. My last good pair was likely bought around 93-94, and the Crap ones were bought when those started to wear out say 96-98. I remember sitting down to try on the new pair and feeling the sole thinking this is not right on the first pair. Then my first trip to Price club or Sams and nearly falling down because the dust on the floor gave the shoes no traction. I could slide around in them like my niece and nephew do with their Heelie Wheelie shoes. The 2nd pair were even more fun to try on. The salesman was lacing me up a pair and snagged the lace on the inside tab of the eyelet, It pulled right out when he tightened them. Both pairs they had in my size had that problem. He said to try the "industrial" steel toe boot it used different fasteners, I tied them and stood up and the top Boot hook popped off. Killed 3 pair in one try on session. I left the Mall store and went down to Denver to the little "alternative" shoe shop (More expensive since they specialized in Docs, Birkenstock and other Euro-brand shoes that were hard to find in Denver back then.) They were all out of 1460 and 1490 boots. Tried the steel toe boots they had. These had d-rings for the top few laces, returned them 2 days later when one of the D-rings pulled out and got lost. They were cool and let me swap out the bad pair but the soles were the crap hard rubber and not the airwear bouncing soles.
Boort
That would line up with my experience. I wore Docs for like 10 years from 87-97. My last good pair was likely bought around 93-94, and the Crap ones were bought when those started to wear out say 96-98. I remember sitting down to try on the new pair and feeling the sole thinking this is not right on the first pair. Then my first trip to Price club or Sams and nearly falling down because the dust on the floor gave the shoes no traction. I could slide around in them like my niece and nephew do with their Heelie Wheelie shoes. The 2nd pair were even more fun to try on. The salesman was lacing me up a pair and snagged the lace on the inside tab of the eyelet, It pulled right out when he tightened them. Both pairs they had in my size had that problem. He said to try the "industrial" steel toe boot it used different fasteners, I tied them and stood up and the top Boot hook popped off. Killed 3 pair in one try on session. I left the Mall store and went down to Denver to the little "alternative" shoe shop (More expensive since they specialized in Docs, Birkenstock and other Euro-brand shoes that were hard to find in Denver back then.) They were all out of 1460 and 1490 boots. Tried the steel toe boots they had. These had d-rings for the top few laces, returned them 2 days later when one of the D-rings pulled out and got lost. They were cool and let me swap out the bad pair but the soles were the crap hard rubber and not the airwear bouncing soles.
Boort
Advocate III
Yep, right about the same time period. My first was around '88, second around '91-'92. Wore that pair until around '96 when I found the quality had significantly diminished.
Off-Road Ranger I
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Not upsetting at all, In 9 out of 10 Asian countries a person working in a "sweat shop" for 50 hours a week makes more money than the national average in that country. Defining a "communist" country has become quite difficult to do in recent years as most all countries, except N. Korea, & Cuba have allowed capitalism to take a foothold. So, again, your statement doesn't upset at all. If I know a company is exploiting its labor force, then I do not purchase that company's product. Thankfully it is very easy to research a company's labor relations before we purchase it. With your blanket statement, you may be passing on a company that compensates their labor force quite handsomely.
Benefactor
I agree that their are no Communist countries in practice, just in name. I don't want to start a disagreement, but I question your statistics, could you provide your source. "Human Rights Watch" Lists police states: North Korea, Laos, China, etc... All self described communist countries, are also police states, per UN Human Rights Watch. list. It is very difficult to find accurate economic statistics in a police state, when much of the official information is widely excepted to be false. Take China as an example: not even Zhou Xiaochuan (Governor of the people's Bank of China), trusts the official economic statistics. This is based on an article from Ben Bernanke wrote for the Brookings institute. Ben Bernanke got to know Zhou Xiaochuan during their work together in the G20. I also question how easy it is to find accurate information about companies in a police states. This information is also widely excepted to be false. I do not take this position lightly, it is a pain to follow. It is the price that I pay to know I'm not buying products that are produced by slave labor, child labor, etc... I can find no reputable third party validated source to know who are the offenders, and who are not.
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This is but one source that I follow on such matters. They do lean a little left, no doubt, but their numbers are pretty accurate when it comes to world wide labor statistics. The right leaning think tanks have always painted a much less dismal picture of the world wide labor markets. True, accurate info is very hard to find, and when possible I buy American made products. On a side note, I avoid Wal-Mart like the plague that it is. Their policies have wreaked havoc on the " free market" in this country. Hey, have a great day. I'm pleased to meet another fellow that isn't fearful of challenging his own principals.
http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=1369
Benefactor
I will take the time to read this entire article, I'm assuming I will agree with it. I know Benjamin Powells' work. I just finished his book "The Economics of Immigration".
I have also read some of the source material for this article:
The Effects of Multinational Production on Wages and Working Conditions in Developing Countries.” Cambridge: National Bureau of Economic Research.
I will continue to buy products that where created in "sweet shops". Just not from all the countries listed. We can agree on many points, I also avoid Wal-Mart like the plague and I try to support USA manufacturers by buying American first. I pay a bit more, but feel good in my decision.
To say a Country is not Communist just because they want the "free worlds" money is simply uninformed!
China is still very much Communist, it is just their new plan is to take over the world through taking over the worlds manufacturing of commodities. Think about it - if China closed it's ports for a year how empty would your local home depot, walmart, target and the list goes on become?
I worked for the US base of a China manufacturer for 9 years in engineering. I sat at many dinners with Government officials, the conversions were eye opening to say the least. China also has two types of passports one for Communist party members and one for the masses. All business owners are members and the government owns most of the land businesses are built on along with a good portion of the company it's self. The Government also owns all the natural resources in China that all products are made from.
My personal opinion is that most of the world has been duped by China and accepts it because they want to pay less (price over quality) and do not really care about what it means. Just my opinion witch we are all entitled to have and voice - unless you live in a Communist Country.
China is still very much Communist, it is just their new plan is to take over the world through taking over the worlds manufacturing of commodities. Think about it - if China closed it's ports for a year how empty would your local home depot, walmart, target and the list goes on become?
I worked for the US base of a China manufacturer for 9 years in engineering. I sat at many dinners with Government officials, the conversions were eye opening to say the least. China also has two types of passports one for Communist party members and one for the masses. All business owners are members and the government owns most of the land businesses are built on along with a good portion of the company it's self. The Government also owns all the natural resources in China that all products are made from.
My personal opinion is that most of the world has been duped by China and accepts it because they want to pay less (price over quality) and do not really care about what it means. Just my opinion witch we are all entitled to have and voice - unless you live in a Communist Country.
Benefactor
I think we probably agree more than disagree. My point about China not really being a communist state, is because it doesn't function as a communist state.
As other examples: North Korea calls itself a communist state, but it functions as an Autocracy.
If you look at the leadership of China over the last 100 years, it doesn’t run like a Communist state as defined by Marxist theory, it runs like an Oligarchy. With the ruling class based on gender, ethnicity (yes China has multiple ethnicity), and familiar connections. This is not the idea created by Marxism (It has its own problems).
In short, I do not buy products from China, for moral reasons. I do not buy products from any country that calls itself Communist. Each one for different moral reasons. If I every find a state that conducts business ethically, and treats its people with respect and dignity, and is communist: I may change my position. Until then, I will sticking to my position. I hope this didn't sound confrontational, just trying to make my position clear.
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Advocate III
As many others have said, largely depends on quality, availability, durability, and reputation. Though I'm not fond of supporting countries with horrendous human rights or labor records, I have to admit to owning a bunch of clothing from ExOfficio, The North Face, and Dickies, etc that are made in China, Vietnam, and India. I have to be honest and say I was looking at the quality and features more than where it was made. Harder to find clothing made entirely in the USA, though they do exist.
When it came time to decide on much bigger ticket items, like my trailer, being made in USA played a much larger role. I first decided on vintage military trailers like my M416 and Bantam T3-C (both now up for sale), and am now going for the excellent, multi-purpose XV-2 from Schutt Industries. If someone in the US made as high a quality tent as the Eezi-Awn, or awning like the Bundu-Awn with aluminized fabric (I know, debatable to some which is higher quality for the money), I'd opt for them first. That both now have outlets in the US helps though, in my opinion, in that purchasing from them helps in some small way to support American small business.
When it came time to decide on much bigger ticket items, like my trailer, being made in USA played a much larger role. I first decided on vintage military trailers like my M416 and Bantam T3-C (both now up for sale), and am now going for the excellent, multi-purpose XV-2 from Schutt Industries. If someone in the US made as high a quality tent as the Eezi-Awn, or awning like the Bundu-Awn with aluminized fabric (I know, debatable to some which is higher quality for the money), I'd opt for them first. That both now have outlets in the US helps though, in my opinion, in that purchasing from them helps in some small way to support American small business.
