Digital alternative

[Mustang03]

Since I'm not going to rent (also known as "subscription") land navigation software (e.g., Gaia, et. al.) without a lot better reason than anyone can currently provide, I looked for an alternative for use off-line. What I've found so far requires a little bit of prep work, but it does the job. This is good for smaller trips where you know in general where you're going.

My setup is a non-gps iPad (10") and a Dual XPGS160 (purchased through mypilotstore.com) The GPS connects to the iPad via bluetooth. The maps are free from USGS.

1. Pick your area.
2. Go to the USGS Store (store.usgs.gov) to look around (there's a TON of interesting stuff there for map geeks -- or --
3. Go to ngmdb.usgs.gov and narrow down using the controls until you have selected the map(s) you want. Choose the GeoPDF version and download it. (These PDFs are FREE.)
4. Download the free version of Avenza Maps. This app in its free version allows you to keep up to 3 maps "loaded" in it's "memory". This app is actually recommended by USGS as compatible with their digital maps.
5. Load your map(s) in Avenza, connect the GPS, and yep, there's a blue dot on the map.

I figure it this way. If I'm driving from Tucson, Az to Moab, Ut, I know where I am on the highway. There's AAA maps and mileage signs for that if I am traveling a road for the first time. Need a little more detail or merely curious about where that interesting-looking road leads? Then we carry Benchmark / DeLorme State map books and if they are a couple years out of date, who cares? These map books are also usually pretty good at the medium-scale stuff (I'm talking about 1:50,000 to 1:100,000). The main reason I like to have the large-scale digital maps (1:24,000) is because they are free and I don't have to carry a trunk full of paper 1:24,000 maps around with me.

Is this cumbersome? Yeah, sure, but it is not hard to do. Time-consuming? Somewhat, but we're not in a race. Does it give us extremely accurate land navigation data? Absolutely. Heck, we used to use 1:50,000 paper maps and lensatic compasses to call in artillery fire, so this stuff is terrific in terms of accuracy!

Anyway, this is the current setup we use to avoid renting land nav software. Anyone else using a free alternative?

 

[smritte]

I’m going to run on the assumption that your only talking about subscriptions and not an initial investment of say, $5 for a piece of software. If that’s true, I only started using the subscriptions in the last couple of years. My first was with my Garmin Nuvi (with the off road map upgrade) years ago. When that was stolen I got my first tablet and ran the whole gambit of different software including something similar to what your doing. I also but the paper maps to whatever place I’m going (unless I already have them) just in case my gps goes south (happens once in a while)
That worked great for me for over a decade. I dont mind the subscriptions now because of the flexibility and ease. If it wasn’t for that, I dont see the need of doing anything harder than basic like your talking about.

I also believe most people should start simple and learn how things work. If they need more they can expand it. Just getting a subscription for something you don’t really understand to begin with is a waste of money in my opinion. The generic mapping software that comes with your phone/tablet is enough for most if they just learned how to use it.

 

[WTSMatt]

I have both pay versions of Gaia and Avenza. I use Avenza for work so I need to have the ability to have more than 3 maps. Avenza is a really great tool. I like Gaia better for non-work stuff because I can adjust ow much 'other stuff' I can see so I can keep my road clear. Avenza is basically a papermap in your tablet, you cannot adjust the actual map to suit your preferences. But, I am very comfortable with Avenza and use it to track my routes as a back-up when traveling just in case Gaia poops out or something.

 

[pluton]

I keep a lot of maps through Gaia on my phone (small tablet would be better for the dashboard mounted part of the adventure), and keep a Garmin Montana 700 series unit with it's own sets of multiple maps....' just in case Gaia poops out or something'. BTW, I've been using Gaia when it pooped out.... for about 20 hours.
Long term, I don't trust ANY online service to last...they all seem to eventually go bad or evaporate.
I can also print those free USGS 24000 PDF maps using a 17" inkjet printer. A 24" printer would allow me to print them full size, but the smaller ones are fully readable and quite handy.

 

[1Louder]

Are you sure it is 3 stored vs 3 converted in Avenza? I thought once you imported a few georeferenced PDFs you were done and had to upgrade. Regardless if you deleted the old ones. For one-time fee apps you can try Maps.Me or Pocket Earth.

 

[North American Sojourner]

I drew maps for a living and surveyed as well, so paper maps are sort of my thing. I'm not sure now days I could put a price on my safety in the back country tho. Having multiple layers of navigation resources would be the prudent thing for me.
In the very bottom pocket of my seat back is a compass I've had for a long time. I can orient with the best of them but a map is handy to do so. LOL
Zim

 

[Mustang03]

Are you sure it is 3 stored vs 3 converted in Avenza? I thought once you imported a few georeferenced PDFs you were done and had to upgrade. Regardless if you deleted the old ones. For one-time fee apps you can try Maps.Me or Pocket Earth.

I have a library of pdf maps that I switch in and out as needed. You can have three active maps. Don't need one anymore? Just delete it from Avenza and load another one from the folder where you're keeping it.

 

[Mustang03]

I drew maps for a living and surveyed as well, so paper maps are sort of my thing. I'm not sure now days I could put a price on my safety in the back country tho. Having multiple layers of navigation resources would be the prudent thing for me.
In the very bottom pocket of my seat back is a compass I've had for a long time. I can orient with the best of them but a map is handy to do so. LOL
Zim

Anyone that goes into the back country without a compass is... I'll let you fill in the blank there -- any retired Sailor knows plenty of descriptive terms to use!

 

[North American Sojourner]

Anyone that goes into the back country without a compass is... I'll let you fill in the blank there -- any retired Sailor knows plenty of descriptive terms to use!

Oh yeah.

 

[AddHawkins]

I appreciate this thread. As I’m navigating ways to… navigate, it can seem overwhelming and easy to get lost in this app vs that app. I’m a digital native so I’m not intimidated by digits maps, but I appreciate seeing how others get around. I’ll be using some of these methods in the coming weeks.

 

[Advtres]

Thank you for the overview. I looked into the GPS attachments for the iPad (since I did do a dunce move by purchasing one without cellar ) but was overwhelmed by how to actually get it to work.

Avenza has been great for me as I can download the georeferenced maps and with the gps enabled iPad I really do appreciate how easy it is to use, the accuracy of location. And when I say easy, download map, open it, follow blue dot.

I am still new to Gaia and sometimes when the screen does random changes I utter nonsensical diatribes at it…

If any of you have a map challenged co-pilot you will know immediately how nice it it is to have these right there for ease of navigation down the trail…keeps the peace in the cab as well…

Google maps is free as well and you can download the maps for use offline, so far they have been pretty accurate.

 

[WTSMatt]

The old school map and compass is a really great skill to have but it is definitely a skill that takes much practice. If you are not proficient at determing your location with triangulation and such you can easily get yourself into more trouble then you were previously in.

I think the best feature of both Avenza and Gaia is the ability to track yourself. When I've been on fires up in the Klamath its a spider web of logging roads and being able to turn around and follow your orange line back the way you came is a god send.

 

[Pragmatic]

Since I'm not going to rent (also known as "subscription") land navigation software (e.g., Gaia, et. al.) without a lot better reason than anyone can currently provide, I looked for an alternative for use off-line. What I've found so far requires a little bit of prep work, but it does the job. This is good for smaller trips where you know in general where you're going.

Bryan:
Thanks for the post and discussion. Being a MILVET I fully understand your "old-school" approach to maps and navigation. Believe it or not we used celestial navigation ("stars") as backup in large military aircraft, in the likely event that electronic/RF Navaids would be denied (destroyed) like space-based ahem... GPS. Folks think their cell phones will work in the wilderness but there's no cell towers/data out there to download maps and such, also cell phones (*) don't work as comms devices w/o cell towers (* devices exist to set up a private network in the wilderness) - so there's a need for GMRS/other/Ham radio comms important for emergencies to coordinate with LEOs/Fire/EMS personnel. On map routes for Overland, the easy way out is to purchase maps and routes that others have worked up - so that is an an option at a cost of course. Semper Fi! from an old Navy guy.

 

[Mustang03]

I've known of instances in the past when celestial navigation was important for overland nav -- notably, the British Long-Range Desert Group in WWII during the African Campaign, but I never had quite enough motivation to tackle it myself! I know the big transports used to do it, but I wonder if they still do? I do see a need for extremely accurate nav data for EMS, having spent some years in SAR after retirement from the Marines and civilian comms still drive me nuts, but we're coping.

Personally, I'm a little puzzled by the urgency on having minute-by-minute location data while traveling for pleasure on rough dirt roads. Fer' cryin' out loud, we're not moving so fast that we're losing track of where we are! ("Oh, hey, an intersection! Wonder which way to go?") It seems like a lot of folks want to have Google Maps-style talk-to-you-as-you-go directions in the outback. "In 15 miles (at 5 miles an hour), bear right." And this fairly new business model of renting your software really plays into that. Oh God, you got me going again!

What was it Davy Crockett is alleged to have said, "I've never been lost. I've been a tad confused for a few days, but I've never been lost."
Cheers and Semper Fi!

 

[smritte]

I've known of instances in the past when celestial navigation was important for overland nav

Personally, I'm a little puzzled by the urgency on having minute-by-minute location data while traveling for pleasure on rough dirt roads. Fer' cryin' out loud, we're not moving so fast that we're losing track of where we are!

Snipped this a little

A long time ago, I was out with my Jeep club (90's). It had been dark for a couple of hours and we were kinda lost in the desert. After driving in circles for another couple of hours, we stopped to figure out where we were.
A few of the guys were pointing at diffrent mountain silhouettes in the far distance, citing which way we came from (two diffrent directions) and how camp was back over the hills a ways. One of the others was a grad student studying.......(stars?). He said based on the position of ....(gawd knows what) we are exactly here and need to go that way (diffrent from everyone else's direction).

I had one of the first Magellan GPS and said camp was about a mile ish in the other direction (It had an arrow).

I was later told, I took the fun out of getting lost.

Very good reason not to have a GPS. Takes away fun.

 

[rgallant]

Well I use a basic garmin Nuvi with maps loaded, that gives me a general idea, but I aloo carry paper maps of the area. I can pick Lat & Log off of either of the auto gps or my hand held and they track to my mapbooks or just haul out my compass. But in the bottom of a valley surrounded the compass can be marginal.

Generally if I drove there I can drive back within a day with no trouble even without a amp, all those years of practice on the governments dime.