Did you "baseline" your rig for overlanding, or just drive it and fix what was broke?

[IBWandering]

For what it’s worth, here are my thoughts:
1. Buying used has been my path. I can’t afford to drop $70k+ on a new rig.
2. Knowing your ride is always good. Go through the critical systems before a big trip.
3. Fix what will likely break based on mileage, service history, and what is “mission critical.” As to that last point, I live in Oregon. My ‘08 Tundra had 205k miles on it. That alternator is running fine now, and for a trip to Wyoming, even off pavement, the “risk” is acceptable. However, drive to Baja del Sur, and I’ll be replacing it proactively.
4. Do what you have the skills for, if time allows. As stated above, know what you are driving. You’re going to have to fix things while off pavement at some point anyway.
5. Remember that an overland rig is a box on four wheels into which you throw money. I try not to go too crazy on gear for gear’s sake, though. I do spend money when it’s about safety, and why makes sense. For example, there are a few good aftermarket brake upgrades for rigs that we’ve loaded up. Powerbrake is a good example. That’s my next intended upgrade, one for which I’ll have to save.
6. Ask lots of questions. It helps that my preferred mechanic is also into the overland life. I’m always trying to learn something new.

As I said, those are my thoughts. I hope they help.

 

[smritte]

And of course, if you buy a vehicle used, you often do not know if the car has been well maintained.

2. Knowing your ride is always good. Go through the critical systems before a big trip.
3. Fix what will likely break based on mileage, service history, and what is “mission critical.”

These. These are what's important.

Most people don't understand what baselining is. My rig has 230k on it. The head gasket has a lifespan of 175k-250k, trans is 175k and so on. All this is based on it being maintained properly. I'm the third owner and my rig will spend 1-2 weeks away from the highway, sometimes solo. Only a fool would drive this without knowing what needs to be done. Considering I don't know, I replace with items I know the lifespans. That means no critical parts are aftermarket crap.

I have been in the automotive industry for my life time. Between what I saw at the shop and my decades of off-road, I've seen what happens to poorly or unmaintained vehicles.
When I first bought my cruiser, I was approached by someone who said "OMG, nice rig, you know its a money pit, right?"
This is an example of someone who buys a high mileage rig and is frustrated because they didn't understand everything was beyond its lifespan. Now their stuck throwing money at something they were told "never had a problem" and is a "million mile rig".

In my industry there's a term we use for people like this, "Ignorance is Bliss, until its not" Most choose to be ignorant and just replace as things break. Then they complain about the vehicle being a "money pit".

Baselining is not attempting to build a new vehicle out of an old one and never driving it until it's perfect. That is called "restoration" and the two are commonly confused. I hear people make comments like "Just go enjoy it", "don't spend any real money", "take it out", "just fix what's broken". These people are "reactive", I am "proactive".
I know what the lifespans of things are, I also understand the physics and chemistry behind things. This is why my coolant and brake fluid are replaced every three years. I pull axles every year and inspect splines. The list goes on.
The first years of ownership, I replaced worn axles, bearings, hoses belts. I send out oil samples and have it analyzed. The latter was how I knew my head gasket was weak.
So 20k and seven years later, I have a vehicle with 230k miles that went for almost 50k in 96. I still want to rebuild my trans, my gearbox needs rebuild and has a worn sector shaft. This is a "baselined vehicle" that I would have no problem driving around the world.

Everyone does things diffrent. Everyone drives in diffrent situations. There is also no reason people should point and think someone who is proactive towards their vehicle is wasting money.
Ignorance is bliss, until its not.

 

[oldmopars]

What is your definition of used or old? If I go buy a 5-8 year old rig, then I would just do a few checks, fluids, etc. Basically I would just give it a good once over, but it should not need too much. However if I pull a 55 year old truck out of the weeds from behind a barn (My 65 Chevy C-10 for example) I would completely go through everything.
I am a certified mechanic, been wrenching for 35+ years. I tend to be more of the mind to check out whatever I am driving, then pack tools and duct tape and bailing wire in case I need it. However, I know I can fix most anything that comes up, or at least some kind of a trail fix. I've had to use batteries to weld steering parts together to get off of a trail, use wire and zip ties to hold parts on, bypass systems or rob parts to fix vital systems and due without others, etc.
With that all said, I am selling my 2008 Suburban and I ordered a 2022 Subaru Ascent as my new Overland rig. I'm just tired of old vehicles and want to spend my time enjoying the drive, not fixing the ride.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

These. These are what's important.

Most people don't understand what baselining is. My rig has 230k on it. The head gasket has a lifespan of 175k-250k, trans is 175k and so on. All this is based on it being maintained properly. I'm the third owner and my rig will spend 1-2 weeks away from the highway, sometimes solo. Only a fool would drive this without knowing what needs to be done. Considering I don't know, I replace with items I know the lifespans. That means no critical parts are aftermarket crap.

I have been in the automotive industry for my life time. Between what I saw at the shop and my decades of off-road, I've seen what happens to poorly or unmaintained vehicles.
When I first bought my cruiser, I was approached by someone who said "OMG, nice rig, you know its a money pit, right?"
This is an example of someone who buys a high mileage rig and is frustrated because they didn't understand everything was beyond its lifespan. Now their stuck throwing money at something they were told "never had a problem" and is a "million mile rig".

In my industry there's a term we use for people like this, "Ignorance is Bliss, until its not" Most choose to be ignorant and just replace as things break. Then they complain about the vehicle being a "money pit".

Baselining is not attempting to build a new vehicle out of an old one and never driving it until it's perfect. That is called "restoration" and the two are commonly confused. I hear people make comments like "Just go enjoy it", "don't spend any real money", "take it out", "just fix what's broken". These people are "reactive", I am "proactive".
I know what the lifespans of things are, I also understand the physics and chemistry behind things. This is why my coolant and brake fluid are replaced every three years. I pull axles every year and inspect splines. The list goes on.
The first years of ownership, I replaced worn axles, bearings, hoses belts. I send out oil samples and have it analyzed. The latter was how I knew my head gasket was weak.
So 20k and seven years later, I have a vehicle with 230k miles that went for almost 50k in 96. I still want to rebuild my trans, my gearbox needs rebuild and has a worn sector shaft. This is a "baselined vehicle" that I would have no problem driving around the world.

Everyone does things diffrent. Everyone drives in diffrent situations. There is also no reason people should point and think someone who is proactive towards their vehicle is wasting money.
Ignorance is bliss, until its not.

Since when does an Aisin trans only last 175k? IME they're fairly immortal, even when the maintenance is sketchy. Mine only had one fluid change in its life and still was rock solid at 233k when I sold it.

Also a head gasket isn't really supposed to be a wear item. IMO the only reason people say that about the 1FZ is because Toyota hadn't quite figured out the Al head/Fe block design at the time. But even then, the head gasket can last essentially the life of the engine, even on an FZJ80, if the cooling system is maintained. Someone mentioned the valve stem seals plugging up the cats, but they didn't even come with cats in a lot of global markets.

Mine had lost compression since when it was new, but I had the feeling it would've kept going for years. Just would've had to keep feeding it oil.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

Had a Landcruiser, the famous reliable truck, same as used from Australia up to US as the lexus gx...
EGR clogged up, oil leaks, transfer case leak, an issue with the brakes nobody could fix, ( it would break more on the right than left side - I changed : lower control arms, bushings, discs, pads, calipers - you name it - was changed - ) electrical issues - all started about at the 10 year mark. I would fix one thing, some other would fail.
Rubber hardens, electrics start to rot.
Just a few examples does make a rule. You might be blessed to live in a dry climate, but most don't . A truck who lived in arizona all it life is not the same with one from Chicago. I had many friends with nice old rigs, but man, they were always doing something to it, repairing some stuff on them. Might be fine for those who DIY, have skills, space, some mate who can help, but is not for everyone.

Yea the brakes can be annoying on old Cruisers, same with the leaks from seals that are a PITA to replace. But the EGR was just an add-on for the US market.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

What is your definition of used or old? If I go buy a 5-8 year old rig, then I would just do a few checks, fluids, etc. Basically I would just give it a good once over, but it should not need too much. However if I pull a 55 year old truck out of the weeds from behind a barn (My 65 Chevy C-10 for example) I would completely go through everything.
I am a certified mechanic, been wrenching for 35+ years. I tend to be more of the mind to check out whatever I am driving, then pack tools and duct tape and bailing wire in case I need it. However, I know I can fix most anything that comes up, or at least some kind of a trail fix. I've had to use batteries to weld steering parts together to get off of a trail, use wire and zip ties to hold parts on, bypass systems or rob parts to fix vital systems and due without others, etc.
With that all said, I am selling my 2008 Suburban and I ordered a 2022 Subaru Ascent as my new Overland rig. I'm just tired of old vehicles and want to spend my time enjoying the drive, not fixing the ride.

I usually buy cars from pre-2004, so I suppose that would be my definition of "old".

 

[smritte]

Since when does an Aisin trans only last 175k?

Projected life span is just that, projected. How exactly is a Trans life span calculated? How do you know if its wearing out before it fails? You probably also dont know Aisin make a bunch of diffrent trans. Some are lucky to go 100k before coming apart.

Also a head gasket isn't really supposed to be a wear item.

Uh Yes they are, same as timing belts. Try looking at proper manuals.

But even then, the head gasket can last essentially the life of the engine, even on an FZJ80

What is the life of an engine and exactly how is it determined? You're obviously not aware that its common for the FJ80 to eat a head gasket between 150k and 250k. Your probably also not aware that having your oil analized will tell you the state of your engine as well as head gasket. Wild guess how I knew mine was going to blow.

Yea the brakes can be annoying on old Cruisers, same with the leaks from seals that are a PITA to replace. But the EGR was just an add-on for the US market.

Huh, I wonder why I never have brake issues with anything I own....EVER!



Have you ever sent out an oil sample and had it analized? I seriously doubt it.
How many transmissions have you built over the last four decades? Probably none.
How many vehicles have you worked on professionally and where did you go to school?
I'm sorry but to call out people who obviously know way more than you apparently do is called trolling.

It's odd how I commented on another post just to have you create this one instantly and mention my vehicle.
NO ONE DOES THINGS THE SAME.
Just because your happy driving worn out crap doesn't give you the right to call out people who actually understand things and want to drive nice dependable vehicles.

If you want to actually learn about FJ80's go read the MUD forum. Better yet, have owned several of them as well as have most of your friends own them over several decades.

 

[M Rose]

1) Have you ever sent out an oil sample and had it analized? I seriously doubt it.
2) How many transmissions have you built over the last four decades? Probably none.
3)How many vehicles have you worked on professionally and where did you go to school?

1) Yes I have… a minimum of 5 a week for 15 years… not once did the results ever show that a head gasket was about to fail.

2) on my personal rigs… 2… one because it was a junkyard swap that had been sitting on the ground for several years and I wanted to make sure the bearings and seals were in good condition before I installed it. The other because it was going behind a 500 hp engine and I knew the HP and torque were going to grenade the C6 the first time I romped on the skinny pedal.

3) Asking how many vehicles a person worked on professionally is like asking how many hairs do you have on your head… I averaged 75 rigs/month through my shop, when I worked fleet service I had as few as 25 vehicles and as many as 500 pieces of equipment.
I went to school at Whyotech, AUI, Denver Diesel Tech, several different community colleges and vender seminars, taught at several high schools and community colleges.
This last question is just a “my ego is bigger than yours”. I have seen master ASE certified technicians that knew all the book stuff but couldn’t troubleshoot a flat tire and had no business holding a hammer.
On the other side of the coin I have met technicians without any form of mechanical education that could diagnose and repair a failed ECU (my dad comes to mind; Master ASE certified, PHD in marine biology, Master Machinists, Several different welding certs, ect… owner and only technician in a vet successful repair shop for 35 years.) Education doesn’t mean squat in the automotive repair industry. I hire based on expirience and potential above certifications and education.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

Projected life span is just that, projected. How exactly is a Trans life span calculated? How do you know if its wearing out before it fails? You probably also dont know Aisin make a bunch of diffrent trans. Some are lucky to go 100k before coming apart.


Uh Yes they are, same as timing belts. Try looking at proper manuals.


What is the life of an engine and exactly how is it determined? You're obviously not aware that its common for the FJ80 to eat a head gasket between 150k and 250k. Your probably also not aware that having your oil analized will tell you the state of your engine as well as head gasket. Wild guess how I knew mine was going to blow.


Huh, I wonder why I never have brake issues with anything I own....EVER!



Have you ever sent out an oil sample and had it analized? I seriously doubt it.
How many transmissions have you built over the last four decades? Probably none.
How many vehicles have you worked on professionally and where did you go to school?
I'm sorry but to call out people who obviously know way more than you apparently do is called trolling.

It's odd how I commented on another post just to have you create this one instantly and mention my vehicle.
NO ONE DOES THINGS THE SAME.
Just because your happy driving worn out crap doesn't give you the right to call out people who actually understand things and want to drive nice dependable vehicles.

If you want to actually learn about FJ80's go read the MUD forum. Better yet, have owned several of them as well as have most of your friends own them over several decades.

First of all, it was not my intention to attack you personally nor your mechanical aptitude. I apologize if I came off as presumptuous or arrogant; it was really my intention to start a discussion, but I could've phrased things better. I assure you I'm posting here in good faith and am eager to learn more.

I'm not a mechanic by any means, but I did do a Blackstone report on my old 1997 Land Cruiser at 230,000 miles. It showed no abnormal wear metals and no signs of antifreeze, and that was with casual maintenance from the PO (dirty fluids, etc.). However, it had lost quite a bit of compression (130 PSI average) and was leaking oil past the valve stem seals and possibly the rings too. The block and underside was covered in decades of gunk and oil. There was a pervasive smell of sulfur, presumably from the oil getting into the cats, or possibly a leaking transfer case.

I have also read a lot on Mud. A lot of perspectives there too, including on the headgasket issue. The thread linked below was a particularly interesting read. I knew they were known for needing a top end rebuild at some point, but there seems to be some disagreement on the doing a HG as PM, even among the Mud gurus. But it does seem like a prudent thing to do if you have the tools/know-how/space/willingness/time and are using your rig for remote expeditions. When I owned my LC this was not my situation, however.

Again, I didn't mean to pass any judgements on how you go about things, and I'd defer to your experience when it comes to actually wrenching on vehicles as opposed to merely discussing them.

The reality of the Landcruiser Head Gasket Issue