Did you "baseline" your rig for overlanding, or just drive it and fix what was broke?

[Arkansas_SR5]

It's a common refrain on the forums that there's no such thing as a "cheap" 4x4; you either pay MSRP for a new truck or put tens of thousands into an older one in a de facto restoration i.e. "baselining." Some vehicle communities are especially strident about this.

But I've found that this defeats the purpose of buying an older platform: getting into a capable 4x4 without breaking the bank. For example, 10 years ago, 80 Series Land Cruisers were seen as disposable off-road beaters. You could get them for a song and drive into the sunset without much worry. Nowadays some will insist on replacing everything before it's even broke. I'm not saying that's a bad strategy, but not everyone can afford that upfront cost, or else they might be buying something newer.

In my book, keep it topped off with fluids and watch the temps. Then fix stuff as it breaks. This is just my perspective though, and I'd be curious to hear other views on this. Is it better to dump tens of thousands into a new-to-you rig replacing everything you could possibly anticipate going wrong, or pack some tools and head-gasket sealer, check your fluids, and get out there?

 

[smritte]

I think it all depends on how close you are to the highway and whether or not you have people with you.
I helped run 4wd events for a few decades. Most people subscribe to the "add oil and run it until it dies". I cant count the number of people I have towed back. For me, baselining is a must. My trips can take me several days walk away from help. Besides, who wants to be the guy with the pile of crap that just ruined everyone's week trip across Death Valley. We need to tow you to the highway and make sure you get taken care of before we leave you. That in itself can take a day or two. Have I seen this happen? Oh yes. I lead groups on some fairly out of the way places, I will not take anyone who does not have a well maintained vehicle.
So yes, unless you want to ruin other peoples trips, well maintained, baselined vehicle. If your out by yourself, it doesn't matter.

 

[Shakes355]

That's the magic question for old rigs, isn't it. With the way my finances run, I budget in advance for big chunks of repairs bundled together. Then make sure I'm doing thorough inspections regularly to catch issues before they are "leave you on the trail" worthy.

Factory fuel pump seen 200k? Well budget that into rear suspension work since the tank will be lowered. Got a couple ball joints getting squeaky? Why not do the struts at the same time. Etc, etc.

But as a tech, I've learned that all the "baselining" in the world ain't worth jack sometimes. Sometimes, stuff just happens. And since I'm fresh out of crystal balls, I try not to stress too much. Besides, the unexpected problems you're bound to encounter are great learning opportunities most of the time.

Do what you can afford and bank on your bush-repair skills as cheap insurance against your adventure party ditching you.

 

[MOAK]

That’s really a great question. I agree with shakes & smritte. Preventative maintenance is key along with baselining any components you aren’t sure of in the beginning of ownership. We all replace tires before they reach the end of their life expectancy because we don’t want to get a flat or worse, a blow out, as we barrel down the interstate or crawl down a trail. So, why not replace other components before they reach the end of their designed life expectancy? Batteries holding only 12.4 volts? Time to replace. Alternator only charging 12.3 volts? Time to replace. Hoses have 150,000 miles? Time to inspect and replace. Brake pads have 40,000 miles? It might be time to replace before you hear metal on metal. These are easy examples. The key for us is to know our vehicles, not miss anything and get to it before it fails. Some components you don’t mess with. A water pump begins to seep well before it fails, giving one plenty of time to drive off the trail, get home, if you’re close enough and get it replaced. 10s of thousands of dollars to baseline? No, not even close, unless you bought a complete basket case, then it’s not baselining it is a restoration and there is a big difference between the two.

 

[MMc]

All the previous post are right on.
I don't take out my rig to wrench on it. My rig it a driveway queen and I prefer to work on it in the comfort of my home. Most of my trips are Baja and parts can be issue, I am usually solo also. I maintain my truck and replace parts ahead of time, belts at 50k miles, breaks at 20% left, hoses 5 years. I find it much easier to replace parts on my timeline and not while I am Baja. I prefer to maintain and have not found it to overly expensive.

 

[tjZ06]

My WJ has turned into a bit more of a wheeler (but I still fully intend to "Overland" out of it) and my primary Overlander is my '11 Chevy 2500. I've had it since new (so nearly 12 years now) and it's live many different lives as a DD, a 5th wheel tow rig, and now an "Overlanding" rig. So I guess I never "baselined" it because it's been a slow evolution. Some of the things that made it great for the 5'ers like the 60 gallon aftermarket fuel tank and the air bags are also great for Overlanding and supporting my Fourwheel Camper. Other stuff IDK if I'd do again given it's a camping rig now, like the custom interior touches (the whole headliner, the A/B/C pillars, the door panel inserts and some other pieces are covered in black sueded, it's extremely subtle and looks amazing... but now that it lives a dusty life it doesn't make a ton of sense).

-TJ

 

[Anak]

When I bought my XJ the P.O. had come up with a screwball solution to an exhaust problem such that the front driveshaft no longer could be installed. I still took it wheeling. It was a couple years before I finally re-did the exhaust correctly and then could install the front driveshaft.

I then took to plating the "frame". Front axle had problems with the track bar mount, so I swapped that one out. Swapped it out with one that had the gear ratio I wanted, but didn't do the rear end at the same time. So once again I was back to 2wd. Still took it wheeling.

It now has matching axles, although that front axle it is running actually belongs under another of my XJs. One of these days I will build the original axle and get everything back in its proper place. I have the parts, just not the time.

The frame plating has been done in the front and the center section, but I have yet to get the rear done. I have the materials, just not the time.

If I were to wait until I had everything just right I would never manage to get out and go wheeling.

That said, I do take care of the essential systems. I have only needed to be towed off the trail once and that was because my 18 month old Optima Yellow Top completely died. It shorted out internally such that the Jeep could not be jump started. And actually, I didn't need to be towed off the trail--we were able to bump start it by pulling it with another rig (one of the advantages to driving a stick). But it still did take a tow to get me going again. And I didn't shut it off again until I was at the auto parts store.

I have a substantial list of things I would like to do to my XJ. It would be easy to use the list as an excuse for not getting out there. But the living is more important than the achievement of perfection in the moment.

Worry about all the things that might go wrong and you will never get anywhere. Just take care of the probable issues and get out there and live.

 

[MazeVX]

It depends on how far you taking it. I usually change all fluids, check wear items and replace them depending on how much work or cost it is. If something includes lots of labor or cost it's going to be replaced when needed. I also think about potential effects, what happens if it breaks, just annoying or will it prevent me from driving?

So yes I would say I do some baselining but not to a crazy extent.

 

[M Rose]

It's a common refrain on the forums that there's no such thing as a "cheap" 4x4; you either pay MSRP for a new truck or put tens of thousands into an older one in a de facto restoration i.e. "baselining." Some vehicle communities are especially strident about this.

But I've found that this defeats the purpose of buying an older platform: getting into a capable 4x4 without breaking the bank. For example, 10 years ago, 80 Series Land Cruisers were seen as disposable off-road beaters. You could get them for a song and drive into the sunset without much worry. Nowadays some will insist on replacing everything before it's even broke. I'm not saying that's a bad strategy, but not everyone can afford that upfront cost, or else they might be buying something newer.

In my book, keep it topped off with fluids and watch the temps. Then fix stuff as it breaks. This is just my perspective though, and I'd be curious to hear other views on this. Is it better to dump tens of thousands into a new-to-you rig replacing everything you could possibly anticipate going wrong, or pack some tools and head-gasket sealer, check your fluids, and get out there?

We spent about 6K on a 2004 Toyota 4Runner right before the Pandemic in 2020. The only things we replaced were the tires (the ones on it were bald), added aftermarket bumpers, and replaced the glove box latch because I broke it. Since purchasing the 4Runner we have put close to 30,000 off highway miles on her and only done normal maintenance. I won’t be replacing anything until it’s broke… we are waiting to lift it until the suspension bushings are worn. At this time I might look into new axle shafts… but I doubt it.

 

[MOAK]

We spent about 6K on a 2004 Toyota 4Runner right before the Pandemic in 2020. The only things we replaced were the tires (the ones on it were bald), added aftermarket bumpers, and replaced the glove box latch because I broke it. Since purchasing the 4Runner we have put close to 30,000 off highway miles on her and only done normal maintenance. I won’t be replacing anything until it’s broke… we are waiting to lift it until the suspension bushings are worn. At this time I might look into new axle shafts… but I doubt it.

150,000 or more until those bushings go out. It’s gonna be a while LOL

 

[M Rose]

150,000 or more until those bushings go out. It’s gonna be a while LOL

We are at 260k so any time now

 

[leeloo]

My experience with older trucks was not good. yes, you can fix them relatively easy and cheaper, but the ones I had were running ok most of the year and breaking down on holidays mostly..
Always made it back, but it was not pleasant.

I think vehicles older than 10 years, when subjected to high loads on the electrical system, on suspension, breaks, etc... even with the highest maniac level preventive maintenance you might still have issues. And when you have limited holiday days .. kind of sucks. Instead of exploring you sit 3 days waiting for a part.. Not an issue if you do like a full time thing.

 

[El-Dracho]

I am a big fan of good, no very good maintenance and preventive maintenance and have always done very well with it - knock on wood.

I wouldn't change any major components like a clutch or even transmission preventively, as long as they don't make any unusual noises or do anything else suspicious. Yes, but as already written by others here, tires and the like are often easier to change at home before a major trip. Changing the operating fluids before a major trip, for example - even if the usual maintenance interval has not yet been reached - should be a matter of course in my opinion. In this way, maybe a impending damage can be detected earlier. Again, if I've just done a change and it's been a short time or very little mileage since then, it's probably more of a check than a change - you just have to get a feel for it.

In Germany, I often hear that people only carry out repairs when they have to take the vehicle to the regular compulsory technical inspection, and even then for example they just wipe off a drop of oil on a leaking transmission beforehand. I have no understanding for this. It can't be about passing the inspection every two years, it must be about ALWAYS keeping the vehicle in a good, safe and reliable condition.

 

[MOAK]

My experience with older trucks was not good. yes, you can fix them relatively easy and cheaper, but the ones I had were running ok most of the year and breaking down on holidays mostly..
Always made it back, but it was not pleasant.

I think vehicles older than 10 years, when subjected to high loads on the electrical system, on suspension, breaks, etc... even with the highest maniac level preventive maintenance you might still have issues. And when you have limited holiday days .. kind of sucks. Instead of exploring you sit 3 days waiting for a part.. Not an issue if you do like a full time thing.

Bummer, I’m gonna guess your bad experience was with a later model Range or LandRover. Later model because most of the old ones have been made semi-dependable by their current owners.

 

[M Rose]

My experience with older trucks was not good. yes, you can fix them relatively easy and cheaper, but the ones I had were running ok most of the year and breaking down on holidays mostly..
Always made it back, but it was not pleasant.

I think vehicles older than 10 years, when subjected to high loads on the electrical system, on suspension, breaks, etc... even with the highest maniac level preventive maintenance you might still have issues. And when you have limited holiday days .. kind of sucks. Instead of exploring you sit 3 days waiting for a part.. Not an issue if you do like a full time thing.

I’ll have to disagreee with you… I drove coast to coast in 2013 with a 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 in February loosely fallowing the TAT. The only breakdown I occurred was from me being stupid and dropping my tail pipe on a rock causing the rusted out metal to break off and wrap around my axle and breaking a brake line… quick trail repair and I was back on the road trail again heading to the nearest town for some brake line…

I had bout the truck in 2009 when I got back from my first deployment and sold it last summer to finance my 1989 Bronco build.

 

[OTH Overland]

We have never been one to run new rigs, in our current fleet the newest is 2013 with 110k, and the oldest 1991 with north of 400k. I try to purchase clean used rigs with less than 100k on them and preferably good proven service history, then we keep them until ... well we just keep them lol. I am a big fan of replacing common to fail parts prior to the average failure point (age or miles) if they are a part that could prevent me from getting back home after a failure. Each rig has its own list of parts it likes to eat, and the old part typically gets stashed as an emergeny part somehwere in the rig (especially electrical components i.e sensors as they often do not give warning of failure and can't really be bush fixed) as others have mentioned most mechanical parts will give quite a bit of warning before they die and if you pay attention and recognize the tell tale noises or "funny feeling" you can most often get off the trail. Sometime stuff just happens no matter how much you plan and maintain, and sometimes I just do dumb things.. for those issues I carry a well equiped tool kit and a bag of trail fixes. The newer vehicles may be generally more reliable and go more miles between tune ups etc, but they are also totally computer controlled and we are using them in an environment that exposes those electronic goodies to vibration, heat and water. Much harder to bush fix in my opinion. We travel solo a lot, but always carry an inreach device so hopefully will not have to walk out when somethign I can't fix happens.

 

[MazeVX]

I’ll have to disagreee with you… I drove coast to coast in 2013 with a 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 in February loosely fallowing the TAT. The only breakdown I occurred was from me being stupid and dropping my tail pipe on a rock causing the rusted out metal to break off and wrap around my axle and breaking a brake line… quick trail repair and I was back on the road trail again heading to the nearest town for some brake line…

I had bout the truck in 2009 when I got back from my first deployment and sold it last summer to finance my 1989 Bronco build.

Oh careful here, US trucks, especially your domestic fullsize pick up and suv from the 90s Era are really on a different level than our European stuff...
As far as I know about 60% of the US street miles aren't paved and your stuff was built for your conditions.
Our stuff is built to never leave pavement and not getting farther away from a workshop more than 50km or slowly driving across British farm roads...
Even the European versions of proper working midsize isn't the same then on its main markets for example Toyota hilux, Mitsubishi L200 and isuzu dmax all serious and capable but modified for Europe... The only thing that really worked was the old Defender. And the jeep wrangler because it's almost the same as in the US...
Sorry for the off topic I thought I just threw some info in...

 

[KonzaLander]

Yes, I baseline my vehicles. I don't like it when something that should not go wrong does go wrong 1,000 miles from home. Plus how else do you get to know your vehicle?

 

[leeloo]

Had a Landcruiser, the famous reliable truck, same as used from Australia up to US as the lexus gx...
EGR clogged up, oil leaks, transfer case leak, an issue with the brakes nobody could fix, ( it would break more on the right than left side - I changed : lower control arms, bushings, discs, pads, calipers - you name it - was changed - ) electrical issues - all started about at the 10 year mark. I would fix one thing, some other would fail.
Rubber hardens, electrics start to rot.
Just a few examples does make a rule. You might be blessed to live in a dry climate, but most don't . A truck who lived in arizona all it life is not the same with one from Chicago. I had many friends with nice old rigs, but man, they were always doing something to it, repairing some stuff on them. Might be fine for those who DIY, have skills, space, some mate who can help, but is not for everyone.

 

[El-Dracho]

Had a Landcruiser, the famous reliable truck, same as used from Australia up to US as the lexus gx...
EGR clogged up, oil leaks, transfer case leak, an issue with the brakes nobody could fix, ( it would break more on the right than left side - I changed : lower control arms, bushings, discs, pads, calipers - you name it - was changed - ) electrical issues - all started about at the 10 year mark. I would fix one thing, some other would fail.
Rubber hardens, electrics start to rot.
Just a few examples does make a rule. You might be blessed to live in a dry climate, but most don't . A truck who lived in arizona all it life is not the same with one from Chicago. I had many friends with nice old rigs, but man, they were always doing something to it, repairing some stuff on them. Might be fine for those who DIY, have skills, space, some mate who can help, but is not for everyone.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the big deal about that? An off-road or overlanding rig that has been used for 10 years and more for what it is intended for, yes there is of course damage and wear. And especially if you use such a vehicle for its intended purpose and put stress and heavy load to it (offroad, dust, dirt, heat, severe cold, high altitude, mud, snow, ice), yes then you have to focus on it and do repairs and replacements permanently. It's just technology that can break down and wear out.

And of course, if you buy a vehicle used, you often do not know if the car has been well maintained. Or if it is your own and you have done nothing or only the most necessary for years. Yes, then it helps in my opinion only to bite the bullet and repair from start to finish to have a certain reliability and a good feeling and safety on tours.