Deciding on budget rig - 1st gen Tundra vs 4th gen T4R

[TkMeWest]

I know the truck vs suv debate is well worn; and if money were no object I know which one I personally would go with. But my question is new in that it comes today, and not 2 or 5 or 10 years ago, so which vehicles are now considered "budget" has changed

I'm looking to spend in the $8-12k range (the lower the better to begin modding right away). I'm primarily looking at 1st gen Tundra DCs and 4th gen T4R (preferably V8). My gut preference is to go with the Tundra (hence why I used to own one.. for 1 month before realizing it had rust issues that I wasn't equipped to deal with at the time.. lesson learned). My hesitancy is in the lack of aftermarket support, specifically for my vision for the bed, and the fact that custom work will ramp up the cost in no time (I'm no fabricator, yet.. hopefully one day. I purchased my first welder a couple months ago ). What I mean by "my vision" is that, if I sacrifice the benefits inherent to an SUV in favor of getting a truck, I don't want to lose the ability to use the truck as a truck for general chore/homeowner types of things. But I also want the ability to quickly convert it to "adventure mode" - to me that means security/some weather proofing, a bed rack, etc. And this equipment needs to be easily stored as I just have a small/low-ish ceiling 2 car garage.

My ideal solution I've found would be a tonneau cover (bed security, but ability to use full bed anytime) with the ability to easily attach/detach a roof rack. The best I've found for this would be the new Yakima HD system with the tonneau kit, which works with a couple of rolling-style tonneau covers (Retrax XR, Pace Edwards). However, these covers are not available for the 1st gen Tundra. When I found this, I started looking into other options. It seemed like the more I looked, the fewer bed "systems" (covers, racks, drawers like Decked, etc) were compatible. This definitely discourages me from pursuing this platform.

I would love a truck with this type of setup, or the ability to change it up and customize it as life changes, but have not found a truck in my price range to rival the 1st gen Tundra DC. I love the 7/8ths size of this generation, and the reliability of that Toyota powertrain. But again the lack of aftermarket has me hesitating. The 4th gen T4R V8 would be an awesome rig, and should be big enough for our family of 4 with a roof rack and allow us greater access into areas the Tundra might struggle to go. So this is where I'm leaning...

I'm just wondering if there are any opinions on alternative 1st gen Tundra bed setups that can achieve what I want, or other similar trucks that meet this budget? Or just head towards the T4R.

Thanks!

 

[TkMeWest]

I should mention that we are a family of four, currently with two very little ones. Future use of the rig besides hitting trails would be camping, rtt, kayaks, bikes..
In the future I'd love to get a jeep LJ or TJ, and it would be cool to use this rig I'm currently in debate about to tow that out west in the future. I think either could do it fine, so not really a huge consideration.
Payload is 1475# t4r, 1580# tundra. Towing is 7000# t4r, 6500# tundra (DC). So, comparable.

 

[KonzaLander]

Based on what you really want, it sounds like a truck would suit you nicely if you could find the bed system that fits your needs. You will not want to tow a TJ or LJ with the Tundra or 4Runner. I am not saying they can't do it, but that is 3/4 ton truck territory.

If you do find yourself looking at the 4Runner, don't be afraid to also look at the 100 series Land Cruiser (98-07). The Land Cruiser has the same 4.7l V8 as the Tundra/4Runner and has a bit more room on the inside. Finding a good one at the bottom end of you budget ($8k) will be more difficult than finding a Tundra or 4Runner, but not impossible. The 100 series has respectable aftermarket options, but some of the best parts get pretty pricey.

 

[trail_runn4r]

I guess the main point will depend on what are you planning to take your rig. If you are planning to ride narrow trails, tight corners... go with the 4runner I guess? It's a better offroad vehicle overall.

 

[TkMeWest]

Based on what you really want, it sounds like a truck would suit you nicely if you could find the bed system that fits your needs. You will not want to tow a TJ or LJ with the Tundra or 4Runner. I am not saying they can't do it, but that is 3/4 ton truck territory.

If you do find yourself looking at the 4Runner, don't be afraid to also look at the 100 series Land Cruiser (98-07). The Land Cruiser has the same 4.7l V8 as the Tundra/4Runner and has a bit more room on the inside. Finding a good one at the bottom end of you budget ($8k) will be more difficult than finding a Tundra or 4Runner, but not impossible. The 100 series has respectable aftermarket options, but some of the best parts get pretty pricey.

Thanks. There's one somewhat close to me that looks decent, but 4 owners and 2 accidents reported. I might just check it out to see one in person and see what I think.

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[TkMeWest]

I guess if a tonneau cover + bed rack is not an option for this platform (besides KB Voodoo..I'm not a big fan of those tonneau bracket designs though), maybe just an easily removable bed rack (like the Yakima HD) and live with some reasonable packout boxes as far as affordability and security/weather proofing. And figure out a way to secure those so they can't be stolen out of the bed. Got some more research to do

 

[KonzaLander]

Thanks. There's one somewhat close to me that looks decent, but 4 owners and 2 accidents reported. I might just check it out to see one in person and see what I think.

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Browse the best February 2024 deals on Toyota Land Cruiser vehicles for sale in Detroit, MI. Save $9,527 right now on a Toyota Land Cruiser on CarGurus.

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If you do get interested in them, the absolute best resource for the 100 is the ih8mud forum.

100-Series Cruisers

1998-2007 : Lexus LX470 and 100/105 series Toyota Land Cruiser (J100)

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Horse Soldier]

If your looking at a Toyota, the route I went was a 1993 landcruiser 80 series turbo diesel that I got for 15k. It is similar to Shaun Wales sooty from 4 wheel drive action in au. I will never sell it.

 

[Mike331]

Nice thing about an SUV is that it can be outfitted most of the time and then when you need to do housework type chores, it has a tow hitch for a trailer :D I chose an FJ Cruiser for this reason (think 1.5 door 4Runner). There are some concerns with first generation Tundras as they get older. I've been seeing a lot of them with rear axle issues, mainly because they use the same rear axle assembly from the Tacoma and 4Runner just wider. Issues have been pinion bearing noise, axle bearings wearing out and causing grooves on the axle shafts, requiring the axle shafts to be replaced to stop the axle seals from leaking. I have also been seeing a ton of them that need timing belt components replaced during timing belt replacement, such as the tensioner assembly and idler pulleys. The first generation Tundras also run the smaller of the modern toyota truck transmissions, which is not usually an issue under normal use, but add larger tires and more weight with a more constant load than normal and you may experience issues. They are great trucks, don't get me wrong, but in all reality, they are a tacoma with a v8 in a bigger, heavier body. Also in my personal experience and preference, if you can get a toyota with a 4.0l v6, you will be pleased. I have a sneaking suspicion that the 4.0 will gain the same or similar reputation for reliability of the 22re.

Regards -- Toyota Technician

 

[TkMeWest]

Nice thing about an SUV is that it can be outfitted most of the time and then when you need to do housework type chores, it has a tow hitch for a trailer :D I chose an FJ Cruiser for this reason (think 1.5 door 4Runner). There are some concerns with first generation Tundras as they get older. I've been seeing a lot of them with rear axle issues, mainly because they use the same rear axle assembly from the Tacoma and 4Runner just wider. Issues have been pinion bearing noise, axle bearings wearing out and causing grooves on the axle shafts, requiring the axle shafts to be replaced to stop the axle seals from leaking. I have also been seeing a ton of them that need timing belt components replaced during timing belt replacement, such as the tensioner assembly and idler pulleys. The first generation Tundras also run the smaller of the modern toyota truck transmissions, which is not usually an issue under normal use, but add larger tires and more weight with a more constant load than normal and you may experience issues. They are great trucks, don't get me wrong, but in all reality, they are a tacoma with a v8 in a bigger, heavier body. Also in my personal experience and preference, if you can get a toyota with a 4.0l v6, you will be pleased. I have a sneaking suspicion that the 4.0 will gain the same or similar reputation for reliability of the 22re.

Regards -- Toyota Technician

Thanks for the input! So if it was you, you would take the v6 in the 4th gen 4R over the V8?

 

[Mike331]

Thanks for the input! So if it was you, you would take the v6 in the 4th gen 4R over the V8?

Yes absolutely, no questions asked. Worst thing I've seen on a 4.0l v6 is a leaking timing cover, and 1 blown head gasket, but there were some suspicious circumstances involved. The overall maintenance is very low in comparison to an engine with a timing belt (which the v8 has) Also on another note about the first generation tundras, I've never seen one have a faulty or damaged front differential, until TODAY. I had my very first blown front differential in a first generation tundra. Truck is on stock size street tires, looks like it's been taken care of reasonably, no major concerns of abuse with 219k miles.

 

[TkMeWest]

Yes absolutely, no questions asked. Worst thing I've seen on a 4.0l v6 is a leaking timing cover, and 1 blown head gasket, but there were some suspicious circumstances involved. The overall maintenance is very low in comparison to an engine with a timing belt (which the v8 has) Also on another note about the first generation tundras, I've never seen one have a faulty or damaged front differential, until TODAY. I had my very first blown front differential in a first generation tundra. Truck is on stock size street tires, looks like it's been taken care of reasonably, no major concerns of abuse with 219k miles.

The only extra maintenance I've heard of on the V8 is the timing belt/water pump (~$1000 every 90-100k, right?), and eventually cracked headers oftentimes. That's pretty much it right? So if *one* (me haha) doesn't mind the tradeoff of that routine cost for gained power, the reliability vs the V6 is comparable ie very good right?

 

[Mike331]

I would say they are both very reliable motors over all. I have just experienced more problems with the v8 vs the v6.

 

[Mike331]

So I don't want to seem like I'm beating a dead horse here, I just want to make sure you're making the decision that makes the most sense for you. Here's some simple specs the 2GR-FE (4.0L v6) makes 277 hp and 255 ft-lbs the 2UZ-FE (4.7L v8) makes any where from 227hp to 284 hp and 253 to 332 ft-lbs. Not a huge difference there. The 2UZ while over all is a reliable engine, is based on old architecture going back to the dreaded 3vz-fe (3.0L v6 that was notoriously unreliable) The 2GR-FE engine is based on new architecture that has thus far proven it's reliability. The 4.0L v6 has an average fuel mileage in a 4Runner of 18 city / 22 highway and the first generation Tundra is 14 city / 17 highway, another factor to consider. It's not at all that I think that the first generation Tundra is a bad vehicle, I too went through this process of trying to decide what the best vehicle for me was, an I decided that if I needed a light duty truck to make hardware store runs with, the Tundra was the better choice, but if I wanted to drive a vehicle into the middle of no where and make it back, my FJ Cruiser was the right vehicle for me. As I stated before the first generation Tundra is basically a Tacoma with a larger engine and body, basically everything else is the same or very similar. Also I wanted to add today's first generation Tundra carnage. 2002 Tundra, 200k miles, front strut bottoms broken off, and this is not the first I've seen this. Granted the last time this customer was at our shop it was recommended that the struts be replaced, and it was declined. Both sides lower strut mounts were broken off the strut. And yes, this could happen to any vehicle.

 

[WAYAWAY]

I have a gen 3 4Runner. Total investment is around $11k. Lifted, wheels, tires, dumb rear end swap, tundra front brakes. It's little so it fits anywhere. It can climb almost anything. I've done long road trips with 3.5 adult size people. I'm 6' and I can sleep in it. I bought it with around 186k on the clock. It needed work.

I'd recommend a Gen3 to anyone.

 

[Mike331]

Gen 3 4Runners are also great, and the price is coming down on them making building them cheaper. Still old architecture engine design, but once the majority of them were updated (was an old recall if i remember, head gaskets) they are awesome.