Campground Insanity

[Downs]

The problem in the Southeast is you don't have many places that I know of where you can disperse camp.

Of course after typing that I did do a search on Google and found the link below, appears to be some!

Chattahoochee-Oconee National Forest - Camping & Cabins:Dispersed Camping

I guess the ticket for dispersed camping in the Southeast is National Forrest land, below is the National Forrests in Florida that allow it.

National Forests in Florida - Camping & Cabins:Dispersed Camping

This is pretty much the case anywhere in my experience. With some exceptions, out west and where there are large tracts of BLM land. BLM land is basically non-existent the further east you go. NP lands are very nickel and dime and "on rails" so to speak. And state parks at least here are nearly all on foot parks with "camping" areas being basically RV parks.

 

[DRAX]

Over the years we've done just about everything; An RV, two travel trailers, three boats, three PWCs, and more recently the RTT and off-grid trailer. Maybe I'm just becoming less tolerant, but I feel like the general outdoors experience in popular places has become 100x worse since the pandemic started. It's like any courtesy or respect has gone out the window and most folks only care about themselves. Even the most kid-friendly campgrounds, like KOA, were tolerable before. People were having a good time but they were still mostly considerate. After the pandemic hit we still had a travel trailer but I was over it, mainly not interested in the hassle/stress of towing it and the extra time it added to our drives, plus the setup, etc. The nail in the coffin was when we camped at a local state park campground by a popular lake around late summer 2020 (I think), it was busy but not super crowded. The people were awful, though, and even after 10PM (quiet hours) there were still people drunk, yelling, laughing, playing loud music. I was done. We had discussed selling the trailer before that trip and decided it just wasn't enjoyable anymore after that. The silver lining is that there was a family cruising around the campground checking out different kinds of trailers because they were in the market for one but weren't sure what they wanted, they stopped on the road in front of our trailer and were obviously curious about it so I waved and said hi, they explained what they were doing so we showed them around the trailer and then a couple of weeks later they contacted us and bought our trailer.

We first got into overlanding because of the pandemic and wanting to get out but be away from people and it stuck with us. We bought a new boat just before the pandemic hit (Literally in Jan 2020 while at the Chicago Boat Show) and ended up selling it in August 2021 for what we paid so we got to enjoy it for basically the cost of gas and storage fees and put that money towards our OGT trailer.

I'm basically becoming more feral as I get older and while I'm not antisocial, I just don't like dealing with groups of people and, honestly, I don't like traveling with more than just my immediate family most of the time. Why? I hate the logistics involved and having to deal with people that don't want to commit to activities or timelines, or even worse commit to activities and timelines but think that "on the road by 8am" means "sometime within 2 hours of 8am." You know what I mean. We enjoy the freedom of doing things on our own schedule without having to worry about others because that's just stress/annoyance I don't want to deal with when I'm trying to relax and enjoy my vacation time.

Our last kid will be out on their own in 1-2 years so then it'll just be my wife and I. What we'll do then is anyone's guess. On the one hand, it would be tempting to sell our house, quit my job, and full-time on the road. On the other hand it would be nice to have a home to come back to. What will likely happen is we'll end up moving someplace reasonably affordable somewhere in the PNW so we can have numerous destinations close by that we can enjoy year-round and hopefully have property in such an area. The problem I have currently is that Illinois is pretty awful in the summer and winter and there's little in the way of outdoor activities, but even if we wanted to go on a hike or bike ride the heat and humidity is a large deterrent so I end up spending a lot of my at-home time wishing I were someplace else.

Anyway, getting a bit off-topic. People suck and they're just getting worse.

 

[Anak]

I haven't done summer public park camping since one trip to Glacier in the summer of 2016 or so. That was a crowded PITA. No plans to try that sort of camping again. Hearing that things have only gotten worse since then only helps to strengthen my resolve on that front.

I will say that I can understand the kids running around. I regard that as a good thing for the kids. They need to do that. Much better than sitting in front of some cursed screen.

Dogs running loose is another matter entirely. I have my own solution for that one though. If someone doesn't seem to care where their dog is going or what it is doing then it is time to start leaving scrap chicken bones laying around. It is amazing how fast an owner will suddenly become responsible. Of course I am a dirty illegitimate offspring of a female dog for doing such a thing, but my world suddenly improves, so I don't mind the labels.

 

[leeloo]

Give me kids and dogs any day over drunks staying up too late

Personally I take offense to that. I am a very quiet and lovable drunk. Proof - I am still married after 17 years :)
.Even got a special technique for getting drunk without disturbing anyone at camp/ or when wild camping, my wife and kid. I always have some wireless noise canceling headsets that allow me to move between the fridge and chair with ease :) and the only noise I make is when I trip on something or step on a branch. I also feel very comfortable having long talks with my inner child , but on very low voice or no voice at all :)

 

[grubworm]

uh...ok guys, lets ignore this thread. i didnt realize this has already been handled...

 

[LostWoods]

My greatest fear is that these kinds of people are going to result in a permit system for federal land camping or just ban dispersed camping altogether. I love camping and I vastly prefer the middle of nowhere, but the way things are going really make me wonder if my next build is a van and not a truck. People are shitty.

 

[leeloo]

It is exactly what happened in some countries in Europe and now in Australia there are discussion to ban beaches driving and camping, some are already restricted.
Australia case, considering it is a pretty big stretch of land mostly empty, goes to show it takes only a few to make that happen

 

[grubworm]

make me wonder if my next build is a van and not a truck. People are shitty.

that's why i'm doing a special trailer build that will only be used when we go to camp grounds...
has 100w solar with a playstation and mini-mini-bar

 

[DRAX]

My greatest fear is that these kinds of people are going to result in a permit system for federal land camping or just ban dispersed camping altogether. I love camping and I vastly prefer the middle of nowhere, but the way things are going really make me wonder if my next build is a van and not a truck. People are shitty.

As much as I'm for more freedom/liberty and less government/regulation in many aspects of life in the US, I'm not opposed to changes that could mean the difference between keeping access to public lands and losing it entirely. In this case, I don't think permits or more regulations would make a difference unless there were a way to strictly enforce them. Currently, I feel the problem is lack of funding and a lack of resources, at the very least there's a lack of rangers to patrol and help keep public lands clean and kick the problem people out. If there were ways to enforce permits then there would be ways to keep an eye on areas and deal with people breaking the laws today, so I feel like requiring permits is just a waste of money without the necessary infrastructure/resources in place. That won't stop the govt from trying, though. I just tire of the constant "if we do X or make Y a law then things will magically happen" thought process.

I feel like if there were more rangers out there helping to keep an eye on things that would be the most help, as it is now people are going out and trashing the public lands because they can get away with it since nobody is really watching.

 

[OTH Overland]

I would not mind use fees / permits so much if the money actually went to the agency responsible for protecting that particular area, to get more rangers and IF the rangers were allowed to and actually enforeced the rules with stiff penelties and IF the courts upheld those. Watching the park rangers in Yellowstone giving verbal warnings to idiots that cross barriers, walk thorough protected fragile areas, park in the middle of the road to go chase a fluffy cow etc. If you signed a form on the way in agreeing to the rules and word got out that you get hit hard for breaking them, people would start to be more respctful for our lands. currently there is such a small chance you will get in any any actual trouble the rules have no teeth.

 

[RedDogMaster]

Its harder to plan a trip due to the bad word called a "JOB"...but State Parks in the summer are best utilized during the week rather than weekends!

 

[archer75]

Around here it varies. I've seen crazyiness in state parks but it's only some groups, not all. Not even most. Most of the time it's been fine. Just went camping at a campground last weekend and it was pretty peaceful and it was 100% booked but did see for the first time a class A that brought their own golf cart to get around. And they were somewhat young people too. I thought that was weird. But for the most part campgrounds here are fine.

The biggest issue I find is the inability to get reservations. You have to be on it when they go live or you miss out and have to hope to catch a cancellation. It's hard to go anywhere anymore. Which is why i'm trying to talk my wife into selling our travel trailer and embracing the overland lifestyle. However i'm seeing a TON of overland rigs everywhere these days and am finding a lot of the good scenic off the grid spots are often taken. We had one overland spot we could take our travel trailer to that we've been going to with a group for years but anymore there's often people there and it's harder to get it.
I was talking to some guys recently at overland expo PNW and they said the same thing, that their usual spots are being taken and it's harder for them to find good spots anymore.

 

[DRAX]

For S&Gs I thought I'd look up what ranger positions are open, honestly I wouldn't mind being a ranger, but they all seem to only be open to existing or previous federal employees. Not sure why they don't, but I bet if they had some ranger academy/recruitment programs that were open to Joe Public they'd probably find quite a few willing applicants.

 

[MOAK]

As much as I'm for more freedom/liberty and less government/regulation in many aspects of life in the US, I'm not opposed to changes that could mean the difference between keeping access to public lands and losing it entirely. In this case, I don't think permits or more regulations would make a difference unless there were a way to strictly enforce them. Currently, I feel the problem is lack of funding and a lack of resources, at the very least there's a lack of rangers to patrol and help keep public lands clean and kick the problem people out. If there were ways to enforce permits then there would be ways to keep an eye on areas and deal with people breaking the laws today, so I feel like requiring permits is just a waste of money without the necessary infrastructure/resources in place. That won't stop the govt from trying, though. I just tire of the constant "if we do X or make Y a law then things will magically happen" thought process.

I feel like if there were more rangers out there helping to keep an eye on things that would be the most help, as it is now people are going out and trashing the public lands because they can get away with it since nobody is really watching.

Interesting. Years ago or there were fatality accidents on the interstate (I-87, the Northway) between Albany NY and the Canadian border. Trucks were crashing, buses were crashing, cars were crashing. Each year it was getting worse, more deaths. Then about 15 years ago NY came up with the funding for more State Troopers. Now there is a NY state trooper monitoring not only the Northway but the entire upstate interstate and thruway network. Easily every 1/2 hour to 45 minutes of traveling there is a trooper monitoring traffic. Its odd you know, people know how to drive properly when they see a trooper and they do. I have found over the decades, that people that take the time to get a permit are generally excellent stewards of the privilege. I'm all for permits and for more funding to enforce the process. Otherwise? My grandkids will be stuck in suburbia.

 

[bgenlvtex]

As much as I'm for more freedom/liberty and less government/regulation in many aspects of life in the US, I'm not opposed to changes that could mean the difference between keeping access to public lands and losing it entirely. In this case, I don't think permits or more regulations would make a difference unless there were a way to strictly enforce them. Currently, I feel the problem is lack of funding and a lack of resources, at the very least there's a lack of rangers to patrol and help keep public lands clean and kick the problem people out. If there were ways to enforce permits then there would be ways to keep an eye on areas and deal with people breaking the laws today, so I feel like requiring permits is just a waste of money without the necessary infrastructure/resources in place. That won't stop the govt from trying, though. I just tire of the constant "if we do X or make Y a law then things will magically happen" thought process.

I feel like if there were more rangers out there helping to keep an eye on things that would be the most help, as it is now people are going out and trashing the public lands because they can get away with it since nobody is really watching.

More government is never, ever the answer.

Never.

 

[DRAX]

As much as I'm for more freedom/liberty and less government/regulation in many aspects of life in the US, I'm not opposed to changes that could mean the difference between keeping access to public lands and losing it entirely. In this case, I don't think permits or more regulations would make a difference unless there were a way to strictly enforce them. Currently, I feel the problem is lack of funding and a lack of resources, at the very least there's a lack of rangers to patrol and help keep public lands clean and kick the problem people out. If there were ways to enforce permits then there would be ways to keep an eye on areas and deal with people breaking the laws today, so I feel like requiring permits is just a waste of money without the necessary infrastructure/resources in place. That won't stop the govt from trying, though. I just tire of the constant "if we do X or make Y a law then things will magically happen" thought process.

I feel like if there were more rangers out there helping to keep an eye on things that would be the most help, as it is now people are going out and trashing the public lands because they can get away with it since nobody is really watching.

Interesting. Years ago or there were fatality accidents on the interstate (I-87, the Northway) between Albany NY and the Canadian border. Trucks were crashing, buses were crashing, cars were crashing. Each year it was getting worse, more deaths. Then about 15 years ago NY came up with the funding for more State Troopers. Now there is a NY state trooper monitoring not only the Northway but the entire upstate interstate and thruway network. Easily every 1/2 hour to 45 minutes of traveling there is a trooper monitoring traffic. Its odd you know, people know how to drive properly when they see a trooper and they do. I have found over the decades, that people that take the time to get a permit are generally excellent stewards of the privilege. I'm all for permits and for more funding to enforce the process. Otherwise? My grandkids will be stuck in suburbia.

There's no incentive to learn if the permit is simply a money grab where you pay for one and agree to follow the rules printed on the back. I highly doubt it will be like a driver's permit where you have to study and take a test. Even if it were, without a means to enforce them there's no incentive to get one if the likelihood of getting caught without one is minimal.

 

[MOAK]

There's no incentive to learn if the permit is simply a money grab where you pay for one and agree to follow the rules printed on the back. I highly doubt it will be like a driver's permit where you have to study and take a test. Even if it were, without a means to enforce them there's no incentive to get one if the likelihood of getting caught without one is minimal.

Back country dispersed camping permits are free in Pennsylvania State Forests. One calls them up, a short interview process and gathering of your info. Then they mail you your permit. All free- my state taxes at work. Money grab? Not if it is done properly. And yes, I’ve spoken to a few rangers there and yes, they have escorted unpermittrd people out of campsites. There name goes on a list and they are not issued any permits in the system for a number of years. The system works very well and would be a nice blueprint to follow. Any naysayers ought to become better informed. We as a group, must be in the forefront of protecting our public lands, or we will lose the privilege. If we just bitch and complain about government intervention, instead of working with, or having a conversation with our local represntives, we’ll lose it, lose it all. The gates will go up & that’ll be it.

 

[Kevin108]

I would not mind use fees / permits so much if the money actually went to the agency responsible for protecting that particular area, to get more rangers and IF the rangers were allowed to and actually enforeced the rules with stiff penelties and IF the courts upheld those. Watching the park rangers in Yellowstone giving verbal warnings to idiots that cross barriers, walk thorough protected fragile areas, park in the middle of the road to go chase a fluffy cow etc. If you signed a form on the way in agreeing to the rules and word got out that you get hit hard for breaking them, people would start to be more respctful for our lands. currently there is such a small chance you will get in any any actual trouble the rules have no teeth.

I used to love the Outer Banks. Up until about 5 years ago, Carova Beach and Oregon Inlet were both free to drive to access. I'm in southeastern VA, so it was an easy day trip to run down, cruising the beach, grab some dinner, and come home. Now everything is pay to play because people wanted more rules. I don't go there anymore, and wouldn't care if all the sand there washed away tomorrow.

All these agencies mishandle staffing. They only want to hire biologists to measure toe length on red newts or some nonsense. What they actually need is to hire custodians to pick up trash. I think the absence of Bud Light cans and living room chairs on the trail would do more for promoting good behavior than fees and forest police.

The more fees and rules, the fewer people will visit these places and care about them, and the easier it will be for heavy-handed greenies to get them closed to vehicles. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[MOAK]

I used to love the Outer Banks. Up until about 5 years ago, Carova Beach and Oregon Inlet were both free to drive to access. I'm in southeastern VA, so it was an easy day trip to run down, cruising the beach, grab some dinner, and come home. Now everything is pay to play because people wanted more rules. I don't go there anymore, and wouldn't care if all the sand there washed away tomorrow.

All these agencies mishandle staffing. They only want to hire biologists to measure toe length on red newts or some nonsense. What they actually need is to hire custodians to pick up trash. I think the absence of Bud Light cans and living room chairs on the trail would do more for promoting good behavior than fees and forest police.

The more fees and rules, the fewer people will visit these places and care about them, and the easier it will be for heavy-handed greenies to get them closed to vehicles. Be careful what you wish for.

People, did not, nor currently want more rules, as you say. People that truly enjoy remote areas want them to remain pristine and remote. Rules are necessary because others do not follow the principles of leave no trace or tread lightly. If those principles are enforced, via permits, etc, etc, then those that abide by those principles would not be bothered by enforcement of those principles, by any means. Outer Banks? That place is a tourist maven for anyone living this side of the Mississippi. Hardly remote. If you want to get a permit and pay for a ferry ride down at the Cape Lookout Island one gets the experience of being remote, without really being remote. We were there last summer, and what struck me was how clean it was. Not a piece of trash anywhere.

 

[DRAX]

Back country dispersed camping permits are free in Pennsylvania State Forests. One calls them up, a short interview process and gathering of your info. Then they mail you your permit. All free- my state taxes at work. Money grab? Not if it is done properly. And yes, I’ve spoken to a few rangers there and yes, they have escorted unpermittrd people out of campsites. There name goes on a list and they are not issued any permits in the system for a number of years. The system works very well and would be a nice blueprint to follow. Any naysayers ought to become better informed. We as a group, must be in the forefront of protecting our public lands, or we will lose the privilege. If we just bitch and complain about government intervention, instead of working with, or having a conversation with our local represntives, we’ll lose it, lose it all. The gates will go up & that’ll be it.

I'm happy that it's working out in PA, and I have nothing against such a system. The problem is that federal lands lack proper policing/enforcement and funding to allow them to be properly managed. That's the point I'm trying to make, having such a system in place federally is great in theory but in practice it just won't scale due to the lack of resources and until that is addressed there's no point in implementing new permitting/access systems even if they are "free" to citizens.