Budget Rigs for 10K and under?

[Arkansas_SR5]

Ok then. I went from a TJ rubicon to an 80 series Landcruiser, actually it is badged as a Lexus LX 450. As far as automobile decisions it’s easily the best decision I’ve made in 50 years. The TJ is a great vehicle, but it has almost zero payload, and designed to last, maybe 200-250 thousand miles. So not a good overland truck. You can still find 80 series for 5 thousand & up. Hells bells, I’ve been offered 25 for mine and payed less than 10 for it nearly 10 years ago. Dependable? 356,000 miles and no fear of taking long trips out west or up into Canada. Maintenance? Normal stuff, it likes old fashioned oil and lubricants. About every 175-20k miles the head ought to come off to replace the old gasket and install valve stem seals, that about it. Suspension bushings last 100-150k miles. Bolt on bolt off parts last 150-200k miles. I’m on only the 2nd set of driveline universals and the have over 175k on em. Bottom ends, transmissions, transfer case, rears, etc are tractor like and have never been opened up. Want the near perfect overland truck? Do all the research you want. Good luck with your choice! But, I’d do the same thing all over again.

I agree the J80 can still be a good choice on a budget but why do you say to replace the head gasket every 200k miles? That is a major undertaking if you're not an experienced mechanic, and a shop will charge at least $3500 to do it right. Even if you know what you're doing not everyone has the time to do a top end rebuild. Most mechanics will look at you like you're crazy if you say you want to do replace a head-gasket that isn't obviously blown. Even then a lot of people just junk their rigs when they have that issue; many FZJ80s likely met that fate in the Obama era when their value was next to nothing.

Also, a full bushing set with hardware will also cost at least a grand for parts alone, so that's not exactly trivial either. The coolant hoses are invariably leaking on an 80 series as well (which I don't notice on other Toyota models of the same vintage for some reason) which can easily get up to a grand in itself.

Anyway @DreamsofIron if you get a Land Cruiser or XJ with the inline 6, be prepared to feed it lots of oil. Like after every trip. Those big dumb straight six engines love to leak oil like Grandpa's tractor. If you can put up with the flaws and quirks though, you'd be hard-pressed to find a more durable platform.

 

[tjZ06]

The first generation X has a Nissan specific version of the Dana 60, called the h233b. 2nd generation pro-4x (or offroad trim in the earlier versions) received a Nissan specific version of the Dana 44.

Now, it's not exactly a Dana 60 axle, but strength wise, it's comparable. It's the same axle that was used in international patrols.

Where exactly are you finding that the H233B is a version of a Dana 60? Again, it seems to be a drop-out 3rd member design, which means fundamentally it's as different from a Dana 60 as is actually possible. Don't get me wrong, I like drop-out 3rd member designs (and so does most of the world, see the popularity of the Ford 9") but it's just at the most basic level as different as a solid axle can be from a Dana 60. It ha a 9.170" ring gear, a Dana 60 is a 9.75".

This is what a Dana 60 housing looks like:

Note that it has a removable cover, but the portion of the center section that houses the bearing saddles and caps into which the whole ring gear and carrier/diff (or locker) assembly is loaded.

This is a H233B:


Note that the entire 3rd member, which houses not just the ring gear and carrier/diff (or locker) but also the pinion is removable from the housing and bolts in place. This is what is meant by "drop-out 3rd member." You'll see that the bearing saddles and caps are in the 3rd member, not in the housing.

I'm not saying it's not a good axle because from everything I've read it actually really is: it has a good size ring gear, it has the advantages of a drop-out 3rd, and I read plenty of folks swapping them into various mid-size off roaders. But, I just don't get the Dana 60 connection, and I absolutely wouldn't consider it a "3/4 ton" axle like a D60.

-TJ

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I gave some thoughts on what you might want to share to help us with our suggestions here: If you're going to ask "what vehicle is best..."


That said, I'm super-biased and love WJs. ZJs are a good option too, but most everything got better in the WJ (electrical, susp design, brakes, trans, interior, etc.). I've written about WJs pretty extensively here, but my $0.02 is a V8 Limited or Overland is the way to go. The whole point of a WJ is getting a pretty well equipped, luxurious SUV with factory multi-linked, coil-sprung solid axles. Getting a "stripper" Laredo is too close to "just get a XJ" to me. Now, the elephant in the room is the valve seat issue with the 4.7s. Is it blown out of proportion? Yeah, probably. But does it happen? Yes, absolutely. Mine dropped 2 valve seats at about 110k miles (which seems really low). It seems like most make it 150-200k before it happens, and I've seen plenty of original 4.7s go well past 200k. In my case, I think it was the victim of a bad overheat due to a cracked radiator when my wife's younger brother (who we supported from 14-18) was still daily driving it. Either way, if you are getting a 4.7 WJ I would either find one that has the heads done, a full motor rebuild, or plan on doing the heads. Now, that might sound like a deal-breaker, but WJs are such a bargain IMHO it's worth it. Even in this absolutely insane market I still see pretty nice 4.7 Limited WJs go for $3-5k. That leaves you tons of budget to do the heads. If you can find an Overland it's better-yet w/ the HO 4.7, the Quadra Drive with Vari-Loks etc. With a 3-4" lift and 31-32"s they're extremely capable yet still very comfortable and daily drivable. You almost certainly will have to repair the driver's door wiring harness (the wires break where they flex as the door opens/closes) and replace the HVAC blower motor resistor as well - but neither is a big deal, and I don't really think any sub-$10k Overland rig will be 100% problem-free.

-TJ

-The Jeep Cherokee XJ is legendary.
-The Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ (1st gen) was originally slated to be the replacement for the XJ and is near as legendary
-The Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ is also a great choice. Look hard enough and you find very nice examples for $5k. Just make sure to service that odd triangular rear control arm setup. I just junked mine a few months ago because it sat unused for 2 years and needed a ton of maintenance. Sometimes I wish I had sold my Sierra instead and put extra $ into the 99 Grand Cherokee WJ. That would have been kick-ass

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

Where exactly are you finding that the H233B is a version of a Dana 60? Again, it seems to be a drop-out 3rd member design, which means fundamentally it's as different from a Dana 60 as is actually possible. Don't get me wrong, I like drop-out 3rd member designs (and so does most of the world, see the popularity of the Ford 9") but it's just at the most basic level as different as a solid axle can be from a Dana 60. It ha a 9.170" ring gear, a Dana 60 is a 9.75".

This is what a Dana 60 housing looks like:
View attachment 236635
Note that it has a removable cover, but the portion of the center section that houses the bearing saddles and caps into which the whole ring gear and carrier/diff (or locker) assembly is loaded.

This is a H233B:
View attachment 236636
View attachment 236637
Note that the entire 3rd member, which houses not just the ring gear and carrier/diff (or locker) but also the pinion is removable from the housing and bolts in place. This is what is meant by "drop-out 3rd member." You'll see that the bearing saddles and caps are in the 3rd member, not in the housing.

I'm not saying it's not a good axle because from everything I've read it actually really is: it has a good size ring gear, it has the advantages of a drop-out 3rd, and I read plenty of folks swapping them into various mid-size off roaders. But, I just don't get the Dana 60 connection, and I absolutely wouldn't consider it a "3/4 ton" axle like a D60.

-TJ

I'm not sure what it is exactly in relation to a Dana, but on the forums they'll tell you the rear end is basically bulletproof, unlike the front end where the rack and pinion is a major weakness.

 

[tjZ06]

-The Jeep Cherokee XJ is legendary.
-The Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ (1st gen) was originally slated to be the replacement for the XJ and is near as legendary
-The Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ is also a great choice. Look hard enough and you find very nice examples for $5k. Just make sure to service that odd triangular rear control arm setup. I just junked mine a few months ago because it sat unused for 2 years and needed a ton of maintenance. Sometimes I wish I had sold my Sierra instead and put extra $ into the 99 Grand Cherokee WJ. That would have been kick-ass

Couldn't agree more. The XJ is a legend, and for good reason. The problem is "the cat is out of the bag" and, at least around me, all XJs have either shot up in price or have been beaten to death. With all 3 if you live in a rust-belt area there are rust-related structural problems.

I'd agree that the WJ's upper wishbone setup is "odd" and somewhat unique to the WJ, but it's actually an exceptionally good system *if* you keep it from getting too sloppy. The good news on that is complete loaded trailing arms and wishbones are cheap (I just looked at Rock Auto and loaded rear control arms are ~$30/ea for a good brand and ~$80 for the Mopars and the wishbone is ~$80 also but doesn't look like RA has Mopar units). When I had my WJ just a 4.5" lift that was a front long arm but rear was stock links with just the wishbone spacer and only had a ~31.6" tire and the stock Vari-Loks it did a TON that people didn't expect it could.

-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

I'm not sure what it is exactly in relation to a Dana, but on the forums they'll tell you the rear end is basically bulletproof, unlike the front end where the rack and pinion is a major weakness.

I definitely agree that popular opinion is the H233B is bullet-proof, and we all the internet mostly wants to complain so if all you find is positive feedback it must truly be a great axle.

-TJ

 

[reaver]

@tjZ06 - I'm not super well versed in axles. What I was trying to allude to is the h233b is incredibly strong, and unlikely to break under the amount of power the Xterra will ever make. Strength wise, it's my understanding it fits between a Dana 60 and a Dana 44.

I'm not sure what it is exactly in relation to a Dana, but on the forums they'll tell you the rear end is basically bulletproof, unlike the front end where the rack and pinion is a major weakness.

First gens have a pitman/idler arm/centerlink setup with a steering box.

This is considered one of the weakest point on the vehicle, but can easily be solved with a few small modifications.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Couldn't agree more. The XJ is a legend, and for good reason. The problem is "the cat is out of the bag" and, at least around me, all XJs have either shot up in price or have been beaten to death. With all 3 if you live in a rust-belt area there are rust-related structural problems.

I'd agree that the WJ's upper wishbone setup is "odd" and somewhat unique to the WJ, but it's actually an exceptionally good system *if* you keep it from getting too sloppy. The good news on that is complete loaded trailing arms and wishbones are cheap (I just looked at Rock Auto and loaded rear control arms are ~$30/ea for a good brand and ~$80 for the Mopars and the wishbone is ~$80 also but doesn't look like RA has Mopar units). When I had my WJ just a 4.5" lift that was a front long arm but rear was stock links with just the wishbone spacer and only had a ~31.6" tire and the stock Vari-Loks it did a TON that people didn't expect it could.

-TJ

Yeah I did a simple 2 inch lift with Iron Rock Offroad springs, pro comp 9000 series shocks. Moog sway links and new spring perch isolators. That all exposed a weakness in my old drag link, so I swapped that whole assembly out and damn if that thing didnt steer and take bumps nice and tight.!

Wish I hadn't got rid of mine but the tranny was slipping, needed brakes all around, tires, new gas tank skid plate/carrier, needed alignment AND was getting pretty rusty I side the back doors.

 

[MOAK]

I agree the J80 can still be a good choice on a budget but why do you say to replace the head gasket every 200k miles? That is a major undertaking if you're not an experienced mechanic, and a shop will charge at least $3500 to do it right. Even if you know what you're doing not everyone has the time to do a top end rebuild. Most mechanics will look at you like you're crazy if you say you want to do replace a head-gasket that isn't obviously blown. Even then a lot of people just junk their rigs when they have that issue; many FZJ80s likely met that fate in the Obama era when their value was next to nothing.

Also, a full bushing set with hardware will also cost at least a grand for parts alone, so that's not exactly trivial either. The coolant hoses are invariably leaking on an 80 series as well (which I don't notice on other Toyota models of the same vintage for some reason) which can easily get up to a grand in itself.

Anyway @DreamsofIron if you get a Land Cruiser or XJ with the inline 6, be prepared to feed it lots of oil. Like after every trip. Those big dumb straight six engines love to leak oil like Grandpa's tractor. If you can put up with the flaws and quirks though, you'd be hard-pressed to find a more durable platform.

I can be a bit anal about oil leaks etc. the valve stem seals start leaking about every 200 thousand miles. I’m a slow learner and tolerated the oil burn until 292, while learning that If that leak is ignored, then the cats go out. The gasket itself has never failed me. I change oil every 5 or 6 thousand and it now only uses maybe a half pint between drains since I’ve buttoned up all the leaks. Hmmm, that head job cost way less than what you are paying for one, as I recall it was just under $2400, done by a trusted shop that I’ve been using for big stuff since the late 80s.

 

[tjZ06]

Yeah I did a simple 2 inch lift with Iron Rock Offroad springs, pro comp 9000 series shocks. Moog sway links and new spring perch isolators. That all exposed a weakness in my old drag link, so I swapped that whole assembly out and damn if that thing didnt steer and take bumps nice and tight.!

Wish I hadn't got rid of mine but the tranny was slipping, needed brakes all around, tires, new gas tank skid plate/carrier, needed alignment AND was getting pretty rusty I side the back doors.

I you ever decide you want another one, look out west. You could get one here and drive it back. Most here are 100% rust free. Mine didn't have a spec, like not even surface rust. Underneath it looked like I imagine it did the day it rolled off the assembly line.

-TJ