Influencer I
Sorry I just saw this. I need to fix my notifications. I think the Range Rover Classic, Discovery 1 and 2 are probable the easiest to work on yourself but the LR3 will give fewer problems overall. The parts are relatively easy to get for any of them.
Thank you for your input. Leaning towards an LR3, but still researching before I decide to purchase.
Enthusiast III
Off-Road Ranger I
Enthusiast III
LOL. Yep. I am converted. Few vehicles can claim 7 seats, off-road capability, extreme reliability, driving comfort, overland versatility and strong aftermarket support. The 200 series may not look very exciting, but I can’t think of another vehicle that checks all of those boxes. Negatives are fuel economy (runs great on 87 octane though), weight and price. Price is a complex topic due to the low depreciation (low supply and high demand) and strong value but it can certainly be a barrier to entry. It was for me for many years.
Off-Road Ranger I
Don’t forget the legion of fanboys who scoff at you for daring to think outside the ‘yota box. They flame you if you speak ill of the brand and snicker at you if you think anything else is on their level. I considered buying an 80 a few years ago, but it was too hard to find a rust free one in the Midwest. Since then I’ve spent more time on non-brand specific forums like these and the attitudes of the afore mentioned fanboys have ruined the brand for me forever. Not to mention there are sooo many cookie cutter Toyota’s in my area. I like to steer clear of the crowds when I can.
Enthusiast III
Just for anyone using this information, the picture of the cyl head is not one of a Jeep Commander. FYI.I recently considered three row overland vehicles. I narrowed my search to the Toyota Sequoia and the Jeep Commander. I'll summarize a few of my findings that you may find useful.
Toyota Sequoia (1st gen):
The Sequoia has a well regarded 4.7 v8 engine that is found in many Toyota vehicles including the Land Cruiser and the T100 truck (for which the Sequoia shares the same platform). Of the vehicles I considered, it faired well in terms of third row seating (room). However, if you are looking at a Sequoia then look out for frame rust. The severity will be determined by where the vehicle has spent it's life. Toyota issued a recall to replace the frames on many 05 to 08 Sequoias but the job is so expensive that getting them to honor the recall can be troublesome. Also, the issue was just as bad from 00 to 04 but those owners are left on their own and in many cases frame rust leaves the vehicle unusable. It was a massively expensive recall. Dana corp made the steel frames but apparently didn't properly coat them to prevent rust. Google will quickly point you to horror stories.
Jeep Commander:
Ideally you want an 09 or 10 which has all the kinks worked out. The earlier model years had some issues that were mostly addressed with recalls (so make sure the recall work has been done). Especially the ignition key cylinder recall as it was causing electrical issues and random shutdowns of the engine while driving. One thing that was not addressed by recall is valve seats in the cylinder heads. There have been numerous cases reported where valve seats dropped out of the head and caused catastrophic engine failure (in some cases just the head and piston, and in others cases the block was ruined as well). This issue is most prevalent on the 06 to 08 5.7 Hemi engines. The Commander has cramped third row if you're trying to squeeze adults or teenagers back there but for smaller kids it's more than enough room. If you're still considering a Commander, look for one with "Quadra Drive II". This is a 4 wheel drive system made by Eaton whereby the front and rear diffs have electronically controlled limited slip AND locking differentials.
Full size BOF vehicles:
I don't have much to say here other than the fact that they are entering the "too large" category for me personally. When I'm on the trail I like something that is no-larger-than-necessary. This of course comes down to personal taste and planned use of the vehicle. I didn't look into Suburbans or larger Fords too much other than to know the Ford Triton V8 has some known issues with cam phasers (part of the variable cam timing).
Fuel economy: You're typically not going to get great mileage in a larger SUV with 4x4. There are a few exceptions like the Mitsubishi Delica etc. The 5.7 Hemi has been called out for pool fuel millage but I think it's overblown when comparing to other vehicles of a similar size/capability. I have a mini-van which isn't a whole lot better on fuel. The way I look at it is, I can either fit my family in two smaller vehicles, or in one larger vehicle with a third row and get better overall mileage.
What I wound up doing:
I bought an 06 Jeep Commander Limited with the 5.7 Hemi, factory skid plates, and Quadra-Drive II. All recall work has been done. The valve seat issue pertains to this year and makes me a bit nervous so I may at some point pre-emptively swap the heads with rebuilt units that include improved valve seats. Until then I'll make sure to keep the cooling system in top shape (overheating is considered the main cause of dropped valve seats). Overall this was the best bang for the buck in my situation. I have a family of 5 and we fit in it comfortably. My youngest is 6 and my oldest is 12 but I wouldn't' recommend the third row if you have teenagers. I really liked the Sequoias I saw but the frame rust, while not terminal, was evident in the examples I found in my neck of the woods and I'd rather swap an engine then deal with a rotted out frame. Also, the Sequoias tend to fetch more money where I live which would have left me with less money to do the things I wanted to do with it. Additionally the Quadra Drive II 4x4 system in the Commander is a more capable starting point as far as 4x4 systems are concerned.
Hope that helps a bit.
Enthusiast III
Quite right, that is not a picture of a Commander valve seat. I only meant to illustrate what a dropped valve seat was.Just for anyone using this information, the picture of the cyl head is not one of a Jeep Commander. FYI.I recently considered three row overland vehicles. I narrowed my search to the Toyota Sequoia and the Jeep Commander. I'll summarize a few of my findings that you may find useful.
Toyota Sequoia (1st gen):
The Sequoia has a well regarded 4.7 v8 engine that is found in many Toyota vehicles including the Land Cruiser and the T100 truck (for which the Sequoia shares the same platform). Of the vehicles I considered, it faired well in terms of third row seating (room). However, if you are looking at a Sequoia then look out for frame rust. The severity will be determined by where the vehicle has spent it's life. Toyota issued a recall to replace the frames on many 05 to 08 Sequoias but the job is so expensive that getting them to honor the recall can be troublesome. Also, the issue was just as bad from 00 to 04 but those owners are left on their own and in many cases frame rust leaves the vehicle unusable. It was a massively expensive recall. Dana corp made the steel frames but apparently didn't properly coat them to prevent rust. Google will quickly point you to horror stories.
Jeep Commander:
Ideally you want an 09 or 10 which has all the kinks worked out. The earlier model years had some issues that were mostly addressed with recalls (so make sure the recall work has been done). Especially the ignition key cylinder recall as it was causing electrical issues and random shutdowns of the engine while driving. One thing that was not addressed by recall is valve seats in the cylinder heads. There have been numerous cases reported where valve seats dropped out of the head and caused catastrophic engine failure (in some cases just the head and piston, and in others cases the block was ruined as well). This issue is most prevalent on the 06 to 08 5.7 Hemi engines. The Commander has cramped third row if you're trying to squeeze adults or teenagers back there but for smaller kids it's more than enough room. If you're still considering a Commander, look for one with "Quadra Drive II". This is a 4 wheel drive system made by Eaton whereby the front and rear diffs have electronically controlled limited slip AND locking differentials.
Full size BOF vehicles:
I don't have much to say here other than the fact that they are entering the "too large" category for me personally. When I'm on the trail I like something that is no-larger-than-necessary. This of course comes down to personal taste and planned use of the vehicle. I didn't look into Suburbans or larger Fords too much other than to know the Ford Triton V8 has some known issues with cam phasers (part of the variable cam timing).
Fuel economy: You're typically not going to get great mileage in a larger SUV with 4x4. There are a few exceptions like the Mitsubishi Delica etc. The 5.7 Hemi has been called out for pool fuel millage but I think it's overblown when comparing to other vehicles of a similar size/capability. I have a mini-van which isn't a whole lot better on fuel. The way I look at it is, I can either fit my family in two smaller vehicles, or in one larger vehicle with a third row and get better overall mileage.
What I wound up doing:
I bought an 06 Jeep Commander Limited with the 5.7 Hemi, factory skid plates, and Quadra-Drive II. All recall work has been done. The valve seat issue pertains to this year and makes me a bit nervous so I may at some point pre-emptively swap the heads with rebuilt units that include improved valve seats. Until then I'll make sure to keep the cooling system in top shape (overheating is considered the main cause of dropped valve seats). Overall this was the best bang for the buck in my situation. I have a family of 5 and we fit in it comfortably. My youngest is 6 and my oldest is 12 but I wouldn't' recommend the third row if you have teenagers. I really liked the Sequoias I saw but the frame rust, while not terminal, was evident in the examples I found in my neck of the woods and I'd rather swap an engine then deal with a rotted out frame. Also, the Sequoias tend to fetch more money where I live which would have left me with less money to do the things I wanted to do with it. Additionally the Quadra Drive II 4x4 system in the Commander is a more capable starting point as far as 4x4 systems are concerned.
Hope that helps a bit.
To anyone looking for a large overland platform. You cannot go wrong with the Suburban. I had one, pounded the ever loving piss out of it plowing driveways in the winter, and pretty well showing it NO mercy. It was awesome. I still regret selling it to this day. I love that rig. It's plenty capable and gets good milage. I will be having another once I can find a good rust free example somewhere close by.
Enthusiast III
Enthusiast III
Yep, JL wheels. I bought them cheap from a shop in town that sells a lot of dealership take-offs. $750 Canadian dollars for new wheels and tires. The pressure sensors are not compatible with the commander though.
Enthusiast III
Enthusiast III
Member III
I think his username is @02tahoemd on expo portal.
expeditionportal.com
Enthusiast III
