Awning/RTT heating for winter camping

[GeoCampers #4771]

A little bit of extra warmth can make winter camping a whole lot more fun.
So therefore I'm looking at some possibilities.
To sum it up I have 3 possible solutions:
1) a diesel heater
2) a kerosine (Petroleum) heater
3) a wood burning stove

Those 3 are (as far as I know) the only possibilities that do not ad moisture (and therefore condensation) to the tent.

All come with their own pro's and con's.

For the Diesel heater, the main pro is ease of use, set it and forget it.
The main con is the noice (exhaust and diesel pump). I hate noice at night, for myself but also I do not want to attract attention.

For the kerosine heater pro is cost of purchase and it gives a bit more ambiance, and the con, need some more attention and is less safe as the Diesel heater.

The wood stove, pros are: a lot of heat, a lot of ambiance. Cons are price, the wood you need to carry and the maintenance to keep the fire burning at night

So who has experience with what and can help me decide. For the moment I tend to the kerosine.

 

[MazeVX]

I have some experience with the petroleum heater like this

Zibro RS-1220 Notofen Petroleumofen 2.200 Watt Petroleum

ZIBRO RS-1220, Petroleumofen, empfohlenes Petroleum Toyotomi Plus, Notofen, ohne Strom, Camping, Terrasse, Wohnraum! Mit CO2-Wächter.

zibro-ofenshop.de

Worked just fine, relatively cheap solution.
I prefer the diesel heater like autoterm (ex planar) there are several options to make them really silent.

 

[El-Dracho]

I prefer the diesel heater like autoterm (ex planar) there are several options to make them really silent.

Right. There are so many possibilities, decoupling the fuel pump, silencer for the exhaust anyway, silencer fresh air and silencer for the warm incoming air.

 

[GeoCampers #4771]

I prefer the diesel heater like autoterm (ex planar) there are several options to make them really silent.

Right. There are so many possibilities, decoupling the fuel pump, silencer for the exhaust anyway, silencer fresh air and silencer for the warm incoming air.

Yes, but at what cost really? Have you have any numbers or maybe a webshop? Have no clue where to start looking.
And an other disadvantage of the Diesel heater is the 12v power consumption.

 

[MazeVX]

Yes, but at what cost really? Have you have any numbers or maybe a webshop? Have no clue where to start looking.
And an other disadvantage of the Diesel heater is the 12v power consumption.

Heating-kit for 99% of all Campers

Parking heater installation complete set, fits 99% of all campers. With proven Autoterm heater, mounting material, hot air pipe &#8594 free shipping!

www.tigerexped.de

This is complete kit, exclusive the super silencers, there's just the standards included but it really isn't that loud and silencers can be retrofitted easily. This shop has a vast experience with heating solutions.
Another shop, Nakatanenga, sells a complete solution in a box but it's much more expensive but a fully standalone solution. The power consumption is very low, with a good battery its nothing to worry about.
Will add a link to the standalone heater below...

Mobile Standheizung mit Alubox, verschiedene Ausführungen

Mobile Standheizung mit Alubox, verschiedene Ausführungen Platz da, hier kommt die zweite Generation unserer mobilen Standheizungen in der Kiste!…

www.nakatanenga.de

 

[El-Dracho]

Well, there are a few manufacturers. Top dogs such as Eberspächer or Webasto, for example. Or the popular Autoterm products Mathias already mentioned which in the vanlife and overlander sector in Europe became more and more popular (due to its price). Or manufacturers such as Wallas, which are very well known in the boat sector. Webasto you get traditionally at the Bosch service, there I would ask then simply the next Bosch service at your place. Autoterm is distributed in Germany for example by tigerexped, there you can look in the online store for heating.

I have decided, for example, with regard to my diesel coolant heater for a Webasto. Because this is just a manufacturer that has been around for a long time with a lot of experience and good spare parts supply. In addition, I feel that there is a difference between the cheaper and more expensive heaters (I'm not even talking about the Chinese devices) in the value of, for example, control panel, housing, etc. to recognize. And I like to have high quality stuff because I would like to rely on it anytime.

I wouldn't worry so much about the power consumption. We are talking about warm air heaters in the range of 2KW power. After the increased start-up current, these usually have a continuous demand of a few watts in the upper single-digit range.

If you want to heat the tent, then of course the mobile versions of diesel heaters are interesting, which are more and more on the rise. There are either ready solutions to buy, for example in Germany here at Nakatanenga in different versions. And here in the forum you will also find many DIY solutions.

Of course, the diesel heater is probably a more expensive solution than any petroleum stoves, that's for sure.

There are also solutions for nice wood burning stoves around. You will find them for example in the bushcraft area. There is a swiss company making very nice tiny stoves for the inside of the rig. Take a look here at Tiny Stove.

 

[El-Dracho]

haha, Mathias was a little bit faster in typing...

 

[MazeVX]

Haha coincidence...
So there's one point, if you want it to heat while you sleep, you get in trouble with wood or petroleum because you just can't get a whole night out of one load (or tank) so you have to get up and refill.
The tigerexped developed a real ecosystem around the autoterm heater with remote control panels and remote temperature sensors and what not so you really can get what you want, hot water included.

 

[El-Dracho]

Awning/RTT heating for winter camping

A little bit of extra warmth can make winter camping a whole lot more fun. So therefore I'm looking at some possibilities. To sum it up I have 3 possible solutions: 1) a diesel heater 2) a kerosine (Petroleum) heater 3) a wood burning stove Those 3 are (as far as I know) the only possibilities...

www.overlandbound.com

 

[El-Dracho]

Haha coincidence...
So there's one point, if you want it to heat while you sleep, you get in trouble with wood or petroleum because you just can't get a whole night out of one load (or tank) so you have to get up and refill.
The tigerexped developed a real ecosystem around the autoterm heater with remote control panels and remote temperature sensors and what not so you really can get what you want, hot water included.

That is a very good point regarding the refilling or adding enough firewood, Mathias. Thanks for adding. Yes, that's right at tigerexped you really get a lot around the diesel heater. Also the hot water solutions that you have mentioned are interesting.

 

[NotGumby]

Hi Toon and crew,

Toon, did you ever find a heating solution for the awning/RTT? Linda and I were looking too. Mainly we were looking for heating solutions for the awning room, and maybe to pre-heat or dry out the RTT. We’re not looking for a solution to run overnight while sleeping. Also, we were looking for a solution now, that fits with our limited travels mainly in Europe. We are giving the Mr. Heater Little Buddy a test. Having moved to propane this year for cooking, away from liquid fuels, we’ve always got the 450g canisters on hand and they’re easily purchased in Europe. I’ll let you know how it works out. Important for the awning room is being able to close it completely with rear wall which we added last year.

Hope all is well!

Rick

 

[lhoffm4]

How about Solar? Many are adding it to their adventure rigs for numerous reasons. Some panels in the 200 W range, some battery(ies) in the 200 ah range, a 12v blanket or two (above and below) and a toasty night’s sleep is easy-peasy.

That said, I much prefer the diesel heater option as a first choice. They have become quite affordable in the last few years. There are numerous ways to install/mount them including portable cases. They separate the dry heat (no condensation worries) from the exhaust gasses.

They probably have the highest learning curve and are probably the most expensive to get into, but the rewards are great as well. They are a natural progression after Solar accessories, as they require a 12v power source to run the glow plug(combustion) and fuel pump as well as the control module that regulates heater function.

While a wood stove may be the most economical, the over all cost (imho) is the highest. You need to prepare the tent/structure by reinforcing the material and ensuring there is sufficient draft and ventilation. Then there is the effort and energy needed to prepare the fuel and keep the fire going. Don’t plan on more than a few hours sleep at at time. A tent stove is just too small and inefficient for long deep sleep cycles. On a positive note- you always have a way to heat water or cook at the ready.

kero heaters can be a great option. Their cost isn’t bad, technology is simple enough and fuel price is nominal. Some kero heater/stove designs also provide light and even a means to heat a pot of water or possibly cook up a meal. I have a Perfection stove (old school) that has a light globe in the middle of the chimney tower that provides a wonderful ambiance to any area. It would do great in a roof tent vestibule as heat rises and would warm the sleeping area as well. I usually set a kettle on top to add a little (very little-but some) moisture into the air. Not enough to be an issue like condensation would be, but enough for comfortable breathing. Also the water is not boiling away but is warm enough to wash your face or even make a cup of tea or cowboy coffee if desired.

Propane heaters are VERY economical compared to most heaters. Their biggest drawback (imho) is condensation. Water and CO are their by products. So great ventilation is an absolute must, which can be self-defeating because the heat tends to go out the ventilation too.

Propane heaters definitely have a place in a camping adventure setting, but a sleeping area is NOT one of them. Too dangerous in a small enclosed space and Heaven forbid it gets knocked over or too close to flammable material like the tent or blankets. They are great for a sitting area in a cabin, or while in a boat or hunting blind or an Ice Fishing hut. In these areas a buddy heater really shines! Some have/can be adapted to also provide a means to cook as well as heat.

Electric heaters are probably the least expensive to buy but can be the most expensive to use. They are a severe drain on a battery power system likely to drain a strong deep cycleor LiFePO4 batterybank in a few hours. They are best for a shore powered set up like a camper in a camp ground. they may also present a fire hazard in a tent set up, as the enclosed space and flammable materials don’t play well with the red-hot elements in an electric heater.

we’ll probably nothing you didn’t already know, but as I have owned and used all of these options, I figured Id throw my .02 in…. Cheers!

 

[lhoffm4]

Yes, but at what cost really? Have you have any numbers or maybe a webshop? Have no clue where to start looking.
And an other disadvantage of the Diesel heater is the 12v power consumption.

I bought an all-in-one off of Walmart.com for $120. There are several Chinese Diesel Heater (CDH) offerings well under $200. Look at Amazon or AliExpress for the best deals. The name brands (Ebersparcher and Webasto) and others are higher quality materials and maybe performance, but they are much pricier, in the $1000 to $3000 range. To me the analogy would be vehicle choice. Youcan buy Mercedes or you can buy a Kia. Both will get you where you are going…
While I struggle (internally) with the idea of “not buying American”, I’m not certain but don’t believe there IS an American diesel heater brand. There may be either European, Soviet or Chinese for choices. Price and availability weigh heavily in my own choices, at least until my rich uncle decides to share his $$$!

 

[FishinCrzy]

The boating community has been doing this for a long time. Might want to check how they do things.

 

[pcstockton]

Soviet??????

 

[lhoffm4]

Soviet??????

My bad- Russian- Planar diesel heaters…

 

[FishinCrzy]

Winter Camping hazard! Guys, watch out for this:

 

[pcstockton]

Ignik has you covered for all kinds of warming solutions.

 

[GeoCampers #4771]

The boating community has been doing this for a long time. Might want to check how they do things.

that is were i got the Kerosine option from.

 

[GeoCampers #4771]

Hi Toon and crew,

Toon, did you ever find a heating solution for the awning/RTT? Linda and I were looking too. Mainly we were looking for heating solutions for the awning room, and maybe to pre-heat or dry out the RTT. We’re not looking for a solution to run overnight while sleeping. Also, we were looking for a solution now, that fits with our limited travels mainly in Europe. We are giving the Mr. Heater Little Buddy a test. Having moved to propane this year for cooking, away from liquid fuels, we’ve always got the 450g canisters on hand and they’re easily purchased in Europe. I’ll let you know how it works out. Important for the awning room is being able to close it completely with rear wall which we added last year.

Hope all is well!

Rick

It seems that the "best" option will be a diesel heater with a kerosine heater as a backup for when it is not that cold or for the very quiet nights.
We currently do not have a second battery so diesel heater is out of the question. But as winter is gone (or was never here) we did not made a purchase yet.

I still am not 100% sure what awning and awningroom we will buy. So for this year on the buy list (and thus the dessision list) :
1) power supply (most likely the ecoflow river pro)
2)awning + room
3) diesel heater