All in One Comms

[Prerunner1982]

100% with you there.

 

[GXAndy]

Multiple radios, FTW!

 

[smritte]

Something that I didn't see mentioned was antenna tuning. Most of what your asking, I have played with out of curiosity just to see how happy my radios were. If I tuned to the bottom of the 2 meter band, it wasn't bad unless I went to the top. Now my radio started heating up due to the antenna mismatch. The fix would have been to add in an antenna tuner. The issue there is the loss you get from the tuner. Some of my trips, I need all I can get. All of my radios can be opened up but, I choose not to because of that. I really didn't want a bunch of radios and antennas. If I can go two years without needing my CB, that will be one less.

 

[M Rose]

Something that I didn't see mentioned was antenna tuning. Most of what your asking, I have played with out of curiosity just to see how happy my radios were. If I tuned to the bottom of the 2 meter band, it wasn't bad unless I went to the top. Now my radio started heating up due to the antenna mismatch. The fix would have been to add in an antenna tuner. The issue there is the loss you get from the tuner. Some of my trips, I need all I can get. All of my radios can be opened up but, I choose not to because of that. I really didn't want a bunch of radios and antennas. If I can go two years without needing my CB, that will be one less.

Sounds like you need a dual band antenna... I get a solid 1.2 SWR a crossed both 70cm and 2m, without a tuner... however I do need a tuner with my HF rig because it covers 160-6m.

 

[M Rose]

The hams here (myself included) have talked a little about the technical solutions and workarounds but we haven't talked about the other side - FCC rules and legal consequences. I'm not a lawyer and I have zero interest in playing "spectrum cop", but anyone considering going down this path should be, at the least, aware of the potential consequences they might face. The first time I handed a firearm to my son, I warned him about what could happen. I'm funny that way.

I don't want to over- or under-state it, but the FCC's legal restrictions on both the radios and their operations are enforceable. The mentioned MARS mods (over-simplifying a little) are intended for operation under the FCC's emergency use exceptions, not as an extension to licensed privleges. The courts have consistently deemed that using a modified radio to transmit on frequencies or in a manner inconsistent with with the FCC rules is "intentional interference" and as a licensed ham, the court will assume you know better (that's why those questions are on the test). The FCC does identify and prosecute radio operations that fall outside the rules. You won't go to jail, but they will fine you, revoke your radio licenses, and prohibit you from holding future licenses. Here are a few random examples with links:

1. A company that was selling transmitters operating outside the FCC rules was fined $2.8million.
2. A Florida ham was fined $25,000 for using his ham radio to transmit outside the ham bands (in or near GMRS and public safety bands - the complaint didnt' say so, but this may have been a radio with a MARS mod).
3. A California ham was fined $25,000 for causing intentional interference (transmitting music).
4. A New York ham was fined $7,000 for causing intentional interference (the smallest fine I've run across).
5. A man in NYC was fined $404,166 for particularly egregious interference with public safety bands (NYPD).
6. A man was fined $15,000 for operating a CB outside the FCC power limit.FCC Fines Pennsylvania Man $18,000 for Failing to Allow Inspection of CB Station
7. A Pennsylvania man was fined $18,000 for interference from a CB station and refusal to let the FCC inspect his (modified?) equipment.

As you might infer from some of these, modified radios can also "leak" RF energy on unexpected frequencies near the intended frequencies and near harmonics to the intended frequencies.

Again, I have no interest in playing spectrum cop. But when the experienced hams here tell you they are outfitting 2 or 3 radios, it isn't because we aren't aware of technical solutions or workarounds. Rather perhaps we are aware of the FCC rules and legal consequences and because of those consequences we are reluctant to tell you to "go for it". Personally, I'd feel really really really bad if I gave you information that landed you a $10,000 fine and a lifetime loss of radio privileges, but at least you have a complete picture to make your own decision.

That I agree with 100%

 

[smritte]

Sounds like you need a dual band antenna... I get a solid 1.2 SWR a crossed both 70cm and 2m, without a tuner... however I do need a tuner with my HF rig because it covers 160-6m.

Its not so much a dual band issue but the span between GMRS and the normal 70cm band. I misspoke and talked about 2m for some dumb reason. It had been a while since I did that test.
Ham 420-450 GMRS 462-467. I tuned for 450 but didn't like what it did on the 2 meter side of my dual band antenna. When I tuned for optimum 2m is when I had issues on the UHF side. My testing was done using a Rig Expert antenna analyzer on my older Alinco dual band radio. It's possible my newer Yaesu radios would take the mismatch better.

 

[M Rose]

Its not so much a dual band issue but the span between GMRS and the normal 70cm band. I misspoke and talked about 2m for some dumb reason. It had been a while since I did that test.
Ham 420-450 GMRS 462-467. I tuned for 450 but didn't like what it did on the 2 meter side of my dual band antenna. When I tuned for optimum 2m is when I had issues on the UHF side. My testing was done using a Rig Expert antenna analyzer on my older Alinco dual band radio. It's possible my newer Yaesu radios would take the mismatch better.

That could also be why I don’t have issue on either band... I build my own antennas to suit my needs...

 

[LostInThought]

Its not so much a dual band issue but the span between GMRS and the normal 70cm band. I misspoke and talked about 2m for some dumb reason. It had been a while since I did that test.
Ham 420-450 GMRS 462-467. I tuned for 450 but didn't like what it did on the 2 meter side of my dual band antenna. When I tuned for optimum 2m is when I had issues on the UHF side. My testing was done using a Rig Expert antenna analyzer on my older Alinco dual band radio. It's possible my newer Yaesu radios would take the mismatch better.

My solution was an antenna for GMRS tuned at ~465MHz and a pair of dual band 2m/70cm antennas - one shorter low gain for rougher terrain and one longer high gain for longer trips on the highways. The short 2/70 is a COMPACTenna and it's pretty unobtrusive on a lip mount on the tailgate - not tunable, but the SWR is reasonable for most of ham VHF/UHF (note that the COMPACTennas is finicky about where it's mounted, but in the right place, it performs well). The long 2/70 (tuned for ~146MHz/445MHz) is on a folding mount on the roof rack and usually folded. The GMRS is on a lip mount on the hood - though honestly, as often as I'm using the GMRS these days, I might switch back to a mag-mount just when I'm using it.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

The hams here (myself included) have talked a little about the technical solutions and workarounds but we haven't talked about the other side - FCC rules and legal consequences. I'm not a lawyer and I have zero interest in playing "spectrum cop", but anyone considering going down this path should be, at the least, aware of the potential consequences they might face. The first time I handed a firearm to my son, I warned him about what could happen. I'm funny that way.

I don't want to over- or under-state it, but the FCC's legal restrictions on both the radios and their operations are enforceable. The mentioned MARS mods (over-simplifying a little) are intended for operation under the FCC's emergency use exceptions, not as an extension to licensed privleges. The courts have consistently deemed that using a modified radio to transmit on frequencies or in a manner inconsistent with with the FCC rules is "intentional interference" and as a licensed ham, the court will assume you know better (that's why those questions are on the test). The FCC does identify and prosecute radio operations that fall outside the rules. You won't go to jail, but they will fine you, revoke your radio licenses, and prohibit you from holding future licenses. Here are a few random examples with links:

1. A company that was selling transmitters operating outside the FCC rules was fined $2.8million.
2. A Florida ham was fined $25,000 for using his ham radio to transmit outside the ham bands (in or near GMRS and public safety bands - the complaint didnt' say so, but this may have been a radio with a MARS mod).
3. A California ham was fined $25,000 for causing intentional interference (transmitting music).
4. A New York ham was fined $7,000 for causing intentional interference (the smallest fine I've run across).
5. A man in NYC was fined $404,166 for particularly egregious interference with public safety bands (NYPD).
6. A man was fined $15,000 for operating a CB outside the FCC power limit.
7. A Pennsylvania man was fined $18,000 for interference from a CB station and refusal to let the FCC inspect his (modified?) equipment.

As you might infer from some of these, modified radios can also "leak" RF energy on unexpected frequencies near the intended frequencies and near harmonics to the intended frequencies.

Again, I have no interest in playing spectrum cop. But when the experienced hams here tell you they are outfitting 2 or 3 radios, it isn't because we aren't aware of technical solutions or workarounds. Rather perhaps we are aware of the FCC rules and legal consequences and because of those consequences we are reluctant to tell you to "go for it". Personally, I'd feel really really really bad if I gave you information that landed you a $10,000 fine and a lifetime loss of radio privileges, but at least you have a complete picture to make your own decision.

Conversely, the same jackasses have been running thier mouths on CB Channel 6 (the Superbowl of channels) for years and all that seems to change are the players.

I do have a CB in my Sierra because I like it. It has come in handy from time to time, and I prefer one with weather because then I know for sure it has SOME use. I also have a couple of handheld Cobra FRS/GMRS radios. Nice, small, but not much range. Usually clearer than CB, when within range, though.

Still on the fence about HAM, though. Maybe someday I'll get enlightened.

 

[M Rose]

Conversely, the same jackasses have been running thier mouths on CB Channel 6 (the Superbowl of channels) for years and all that seems to change are the players.

I do have a CB in my Sierra because I like it. It has come in handy from time to time, and I prefer one with weather because then I know for sure it has SOME use. I also have a couple of handheld Cobra FRS/GMRS radios. Nice, small, but not much range. Usually clearer than CB, when within range, though.

Still on the fence about HAM, though. Maybe someday I'll get enlightened.

View attachment 180244

The enlightenment is imagine the FRS radio reaching 90-100 miles... same voice clarity (if not better) as the handhelds and the range where only the hills get in our way... with some ingenuity even the hills don’t make that much of a difference...

 

[Downs]

Many of the Chinese radios will still go "out of band" out of the box. Even after the FCC "Crackdown" on such things being sold. Two of my buddies recently bought Baofeng handhelds and mobiles. They all go out of band.

As far as antennas. I get acceptable GMRS performance out of my dual band antennas. Not perfect but it works. I have some business band antennas I use when strictly running GMRS on my Motorola commercial radios. My primary HAM radio in my XJ may or may not be setup for GMRS and MURS. Be aware of the rules and be smart about use.

As for trying to cover all of the spectrum we may use. I wouldn't bother. I have 2 radio spots i my XJ. One is my HAM overhead and the other is my center console which is usually setup for APRS but can be swapped to a compact CB in a few minutes by just dropping the radio into the center console and swapping the NMO antenna on the fender.