2016 4Runner KDSS equipped Trail Edition

[Cobblecrazy]

Once again I sit at my notepad and a computer at the start of a build. Despite my good intentions, and lessons learned from my Tacoma build, my list continues to change on an hourly basis (each time to the dismay of my bank account). Some is due to an inability to make a final decision, while other portions have to do with fitment questions on this particular vehicle. Well...

The first and most "unknown" aspect is the KDSS in relation to lift. I understand how the KDSS works, but I have received different information on what can, and cannot, be done with the suspension. A Toyota dealer suggested nothing above a 2" lift, or issues will be experienced, but a local lift specialty shop has done 3"+ lifts on KDSS equipped 4Runners (one I actually saw and talked to the install guy) without issue. I recall reading that the diff drop should not be used (this was specific to the Icons I was looking at), and I believe I understand why this would be the case. My optimum lift would be in the 2-3" range.

Now, lets talk shocks. One of the voices in my head must be standing at the start line of the Baja 1000 in full race garb because "he" is totally out of control and has lost all touch with reality, while the other must only be driving back and forth to church on Sunday morning in Mayberry... Somewhere in there must be someone sane (my wife might disagree), or at least open to suggestion. The Toyota Pro line appears to use the Bilstein setup (maybe 6112 in front and 5160 in rear) with a TRD Pro logo on them. While the price point on the Bilsteins is tempting - although I would just use the straight 6112/5160 without the "Pro" logos - I think they missed the mark on the 6112's adjustability once it's on the vehicle. In my Tacoma build I went with an Icon setup. I had external res on the front and rear (front 2.5 had the adjuster, rear 2.0 did not), Icon UCA replaced the stock, and a OME Dakar leaf spring w/add a leaf (I had a Four Wheel Camper on full time, and the front had a Relentless Fabrication bumper and winch). Other than wanting to upgrade the leaf pack (mostly when the truck/camper were loaded for trips), I liked the performance of the package. I've looked at the King shocks, and I've noticed they can be ordered specifically for the KDSS. I wonder what they do differently. There is no mention of a similar selection for the Icons on the initial purchase, but there are things within the installation instructions I downloaded from their site that are specific to the KDSS equipped vehicle. One example was for the front coilover which says to "deactivate" the KDSS system before beginning, and then to "reset" it after your done. None of the build threads, or videos, I've looked at have said anything about this process, and I could not find anything in the manual about "resetting" the KDSS.

Springs appear to be fairly straight forward and mostly dependent on height and additional weight. There is an OME spring which is described as giving a 2.5 - 2.75" lift with up to 400# of extra weight. Icon offers a 2" lift spring, or a 3" progressive spring, but my research and needs has me leaning toward the OME one.

The three "arms" in the rear again appear to be straight forward to adjust the vehicle back into spec, and I think a valid expense (not to mention the added strength and requirement per instructions in some cases). However, it seems as though it's only the Icons that mention it in their manuals, or offer it in some of their suspension packages (I think above a 4 or 5 stage package).

The UCA seems to be replaced in most builds (as it was in my Tacoma build), and I get the added articulation and alignment advantages, but I have seen a local 3" Icon lift that kept the stock UCA. I've tried tracking the guy down to talk to him about ride quality, etc, but I haven't caught up to him yet. If I stay at 2" with the non extended version of the Icon 2.5 coilover would the UCA need replacing right now (I know it's just as easy to replace it since you have it torn apart for the coilover anyway).

This is what I would be putting on the vehicle: In the front I would do either a hidden winch mount, or the "Southern style" minimal one, with a Smittybuilt winch (taken off my Tacoma). The roof rack would be either the Baja Rack full flat one, or the Gobi full length one. On top I like the Tepui 2 person Ayer RTT, or one of the hard shell James Baroud models, but I have been playing around with a sleeping platform/drawer system inside. Typical Yeti cooler or the like, and basic recover equipment, as well as personal items for 2 (and a dog). I run a 275/70/17 so a spare can be fit underneath, but if I go up to a 285/75/17 some time in the future I would be looking at some type of rear bumper/tire carrier.

In not trying to be long winded I have failed miserably, but this is where I stand at this point. I would like to know others who have progressed past this quagmire of writing out lists of possibilities and actually done something.

 

[dblack]

Sub'd! A lot of these points and questions have me wondering too.

My thoughts at this point are to go with an icon full suspension stage 2 2" lift etc and see how it feels.

I should also point out that I technically don't own a 5th gen 4Runner... yet. [emoji851]

 

[AaronP]

I recently picked up a 2016 Trail XP KDSS just like you. Long-time Jeep guy. I can pretty much tell you how to build a JKU suspension in my sleep. 4Runners...no clue. I'm also preparing my build list. However I plan on wheeling it stock to see where I want to direct my focus first. I don't wheel hard like I use to, so we will see if all the Trail bells and whistles are as advertised. If I come across any tips or info I'll let you know regarding suspension. As far as Roof Racks, I think I'm going with the Rhino Rack Pioneer Platform. I'll let you know how I like it.
Thanks,
A

 

[Cobblecrazy]

Thanks for the input.

I put about 12,000 miles on my Tacoma prior to adding the upgrades in suspension. I found the biggest difference was on the severe washboarded dirt roads here in Nevada. I was able to pass over at speeds (and in comfort) not attainable in the stock configuration. I ran the adjusters in the front on setting 4 and pretty much left them there - I may have put them on 5 a time or two. I found most of my driving included in and out of washes, long stretches of dirt roads, and a few situations where some higher amounts of articulation occurred. My tires added about 2" and the lift put an additional 2.5" or so, over stock.

I ran the Goodyear Duratracs on my Tacoma, and I was really happy with them, but I did have some "flex" or drift feeling (I don't know a better way to describe it) so I decided to try the BGF AT2 on the 4Runner. I have been happy with them so far. Nicer feel on the highway (which seems to be 75% of your outings driving no matter the "expedition"), but I do not think they have quite the bite in the sand and snow; however, the added weight of my Four Wheel Camper may have given me a more "solid" feel when driving in those conditions. Once I put on the additional items on the 4runner I might have that extra grippy feel again.

In my original post I neglected to mention the new OME BP-51 lift kit as a possible front runner. I first learned about it through the Toyota parts manager I worked with when doing my Tacoma. They had been impressed with one done on a customers Tacoma, and they were waiting to do kit on a 4Runner. External res on front and rear, and a fairly unique adjustability method that can be done while they are on the vehicle. Here is a link to a kit on Toytec's website http://toyteclifts.3dcartstores.com/Special-Promo--Old-Man-Emu-Suspension-Kit-25-3-Lift-Kit-For-10-FJ-Cruiser-4Runner-W-BP-51_p_1424.html Old Man Emu certainly has a tried and true reputation for suspension products. The price point is okay and in line with an Icon build, but you then have to figure in the costs of an UCA and rear arms replacement. I like the Icon stuff as they make all the pieces so the engineering is all in house - not a big fan of one company for this, one company for that, builds - but I think you could reduce the "this and that" approach by doing a Total Chaos UCA and Total Chaos three rear arm package with the OME kit.

 

[Steve]

I imagine that you've already found them, but just in case, there are several threads on lifting a KDDS Trail over on the 5th gen T4R.org forum. I'm leaving mine stock until the day I find it not capable of going where I want. Until, I'll keep the money in my pocket and the reliability of the OEM suspension intact.

 

[Cobblecrazy]

I imagine that you've already found them, but just in case, there are several threads on lifting a KDDS Trail over on the 5th gen T4R.org forum. I'm leaving mine stock until the day I find it not capable of going where I want. Until, I'll keep the money in my pocket and the reliability of the OEM suspension intact.

I have, thanks. One issue I still have not located in searching through the builds was the Icon instruction reference to the deactivation/reactivation of the KDSS when installing the shocks. I'm assuming it has something to do with the possibility of excessive "droop" when the parts are disconnected, and maybe it keeps a "piston", or whatever the internal activation parts are called, from moving beyond a certain point. This could also be a reason for the initial suggestion to not go above a 2" lift.

I think in part my lack of commitment has also been a hesitance to mess with stock, but that does not mean I am not fully aware of how much better aftermarket shocks are than stock ones (you could get the Icon fronts - non extended version - set to stock height and Icon rear shocks and be totally happy). After getting the lift installed in my Tacoma build I experienced a really annoying sound/vibration that was eventually fixed by the replacement of a needle bearing, but it came after a few months of R&D, as well as, me being mr grump every time I felt the vibration. I worked exclusively through my contact at Toyota to make sure I didn't do anything glaringly counterproductive in the build, and it seemed to work out in the end, but at the expense of some limited sanity points. I have followed the Expedition Overland guys (xoverland.com) through some of their trips. In their "Return to the Mackenzie" series they have two 2015 KDSS equipped 4Runners installed with Stage 6 Icon kits. The stance of the vehicles do not appear to be over the top, and I have not heard of any ill affects from those upgrades.

Any time you start adding additional weight onto your vehicle the OEM suspension gets closer and closer to being overtaxed. There are few things worse than bottoming out a suspension as damage is not always limited to just a blown shock or two. Even a slightly higher end "budget" build of a 6112 front/5160 rear Bilstein with a higher weight rated OME rear spring (totalling about $1200-$1400) might last the life of your vehicle and take anything you could throw at it.

The Icon 2.5" coilover come out of the box set at 2" of lift. Put on the OME rear coil with the 2.5" lift with the added weight, and I think you put the stance of the vehicle a little nose down (like stock). I, too, have put on the 275/70/17s which add an inch or so. I think this would be keeping in line with Toyota's TRD Pro suspension package without sacrificing quality of ride, or worse - life of the other suspension components.

 

[giannistechino]

Great discussion here! Just FWIW, I've come across many posts on the 4Runner forums stating that a 285 will indeed fit in the spare tire location under the rear of the truck. I can't attest to that personally though. I chose to go with BFG KO2s in the stock size until my boys can get up in to the truck and in to a pair of booster seats by themselves. At which time my plan right now is to go with the Toytec Boss performance lift and 285s. IF the spare doesn't fit... well then I guess it's time for a rear bumper lol.


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[rochmpr]

A 3" lift with KDSS will work. It is easy enough that one person can do the entire install in the garage with hand tools. The issue with lift and KDSS becomes travel. When you lift the vehicle, you are burning the down travel that is there is stock form. If you are not doing anything more than light trails / dirt roads, it will be fine. If you are nwanting to run sone very difficult trails, the KDSS will limit wheel travel in the down direction, which you will notice. As for the front, with a 3" lift, I would highly recommned uni-ball UCA (Total Chaos, Icon) in order to get a good alignment and better caster, at least 3.5°. Depending on the tire size, other things need to be considered, the BMC (Body Mount Chop) as well as pounding the pinch seam at the rear of the fender flat.

Go through my build for some insight.

Good luck.

 

[Ross]

Ok, so I'm in the quagmire myself to a degree. I have ICON in the front, I think 2.0, am going with the 2.0 in the rear, have the adjustable track arm for the rear and 2" springs. (The rear is being done this weekend.. I basically have the ICON Stage 1 system with ICON control arms.. I had an issue with the fronts leaking, but ICON took care of me, rebuilt them and got me going in a few weeks.. (dealer reinstalled the stock front end).. Reason I basically went this route was I have the Southern Styles bumper with a WARN VR10000 winch.. Between the front in diving like a whale and the added weight I wanted more stability up front.. Right now my back end is kinda sagging, I'm hoping this will fix that. When I load up the truck for a weekend endeavor, it really sags. I have the GOBI stealth rack, so that adds some weight to and all my recovery stuff.. I'm running 275s .. Hope this helps..

 

[Sprocket 1-505]

Sub a dub

 

[Cobblecrazy]

I finally began the "build" process. I ordered a Southern Style front bumper with the recessed light bar and hoop options - so with the Smittybilt winch I already have I'm thinking I'll be in the 125 - 150 lb range up front. Also ordered a CBI Offroad rear bumper with dual swing outs (one side will have the tire carrier and fold down table and the other the two jerry can holder). Really close to the 200 lb realm without cans of water/fuel. I have a Yakima rack system connected to my stock roof rack so the Gobi or Baja rack will be one of the last things on my "to do" list.

When I did my Tacoma build I used the Icon UCA, the Icon 2.5 coilover w/res and the 2.0 w/res in the rear with a OME Dakar spring. I learned much from the ride and have ideas on what I could have done differently (started with a Relentless Fabrication front bumper/winch with just a shell on the back towing an offload teardrop and then had a Four Wheel Camper).

At this point this is my planned setup. An Icon 2.5 coilover w/700 lb spring upgrade in the front, Icon 2.5 shock w/res and Icon Overland series spring (part #52800) in back. I will also do the Icon Upper and Lower link bars and track bar in the back, but at this point I'm leaving the front UCA stock.

The bumpers are on schedule to be completed around the end of August so I will begin to amass the other parts in the coming weeks and hope to have it completed in September.

 

[felixkb76]

Man, I can't wait to get mine!

 

[KevinE]

Congrats on the new rig and prject!!

I just purchased a '15 TRD Pro and she will be delivered next week......and I cant wait to start the build. Already started drooling over the parts and have some small parts already at home. I think in the beginning I will run the stock suspension and see what it can do but I do take the point made earlier that once you start adding weight it may need some help. Hopefully the Pro suspension with the FOX shocks will work; that would be nice and safe some loot for other things.

 

[4WDCanoe]

Sub'd. Keenly interested in staying closely informed on your build. I'm starting from scratch soon.

Sent from my LG-H915 using OB Talk mobile app

 

[Cobblecrazy]

Deposit put on suspension parts. We talked with Icon and figured out the 700 lb front coil spring would be too much so going with the "regular" spring on the 2.5 coilover. Also decided on the 2.0 w/res in the back with the Icon "expedition" spring, and all three arms in back. Spoke with CBI (and got an e-mail), and it looks like my bumper won't be here until September sometime. No word on the Souther Style slimline bumper completion yet, but I'm hoping it will be here before, or at the same time, as the CBI. I want to get the two bumpers (and winch) installed prior to the suspension so we can get everything dialed in at one time.

 

[4WDCanoe]

Deposit put on suspension parts. We talked with Icon and figured out the 700 lb front coil spring would be too much so going with the "regular" spring on the 2.5 coilover. Also decided on the 2.0 w/res in the back with the Icon "expedition" spring, and all three arms in back. Spoke with CBI (and got an e-mail), and it looks like my bumper won't be here until September sometime. No word on the Souther Style slimline bumper completion yet, but I'm hoping it will be here before, or at the same time, as the CBI. I want to get the two bumpers (and winch) installed prior to the suspension so we can get everything dialed in at one time.

Did everything come in as hoped? How's the build going?

Explore more

 

[Cobblecrazy]

Sorry for the delay in posting. Both bumpers arrived and are installed.

Here is a pic of the Southerstyle Slimline bumper (sorry some of the pics that will follow are sideways)
IMG_7009 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

The install went fairly well on the Southernstyle bumper. In the online instructions it says to fully remove the front factory bumper (i.e. plastic), but I did the cut with it still on as I have the trail edition it has the piece that basically is an outline for their bumper. I was able to get all the pieces out after the cut without much hassle, but the driver's side duct came out easier than the passenger side (I had to remove the metal bumper brace before getting the passenger side out).

The CBI bumper came in a few days later.
IMG_7006 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

There were a few included "spacers" that weren't in their instructions on line, but a quick call to them was all it took to understand what they were for and, more importantly, how they were positioned. Also was able to find out that two bearings went on the bottom of the swing arm post and one on top (then the seal on top of that before putting on the metal cap with the locking pin).

We were able to install the CBI with two people for most of the time. I had two 6 ton jack stands because they were able to extend up far enough to get the bumper in line with the holes. At the center I had a Home Depot heavy duty plastic tub with 2x4s across to adjust the height.
IMG_7019 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

I did an initial measurement on the rear plastic using their on line specs, but I removed it and did not make any cuts as I figured I would do a final measurement after the bumper was in place.

I used the jack stands to support the round bars with some of the packing material to protect the powder coating.
IMG_7020 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

There is a flat part just under the receiver that made it perfect to place the 2x4s to adjust the center support as we raised the bumper up in small increments until it was about 1/2" from the holes of the frame. We got those bolts started then put in the factory receiver bolts to give a little more support as we started to finish the install.
IMG_7022 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

After the bumper was in place I did a second measurement on the cut line. I understand there needs to be some space between the bumper and plastic, but some of the cuts I've seen on others' builds were too much for my taste. I ended up going right around 6" to the cut line on the side and followed the "bends" in the plastic around the back.

IMG_7016 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

IMG_7015 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

After the cut I installed the plastic trim that I purchased on Amazon
(Southernstyle included this with their bumper). CBI included a piece of rubber trim that I used across the back because the other trim was too thick to pass by the rear hatch (that being said it would not have been an issue if I'd cut that back piece maybe a little farther back, but I'm pleased with the results I had). I did not take off the bumper to reinstall the plastic, but that was with putting protection covers on the swing arm posts (I have the dual swingarm setup) and some covering on the plastic itself however I still ended up with a few small scratches right at the rear corner (hindsight I would probably have taken the bumper back down onto the supports and put the plastic back on).

 

[Cobblecrazy]

One of the things I didn't really like was issue with the exhaust. The exhaust is factory attached with two metal "bars" welded to the frame and bent at a 90 degree angle. There is a rubber "cube" that goes over these two "bars" (one has a nob on the end that keeps it from coming off), and then there is a similar single bar welded to the exhaust that also goes into this rubber cube. This drops the exhaust down a few inches, but, when the CBI bumper is installed, it comes into contact with the tubular support piece welded into the bumper. Two ways of adjustments I have seen is to bend the two upper factory "bars", or to cut/reroute the exhaust in some way to bypass the bar. I understand it's an issue with clearance of the exhaust (or just to keep it from being damaged) when dragging the back through a washout, or other obstacle, but I need to see if it becomes an issue for me. I wasn't really crazy about the bending option, but tried it anyway - yeah, no...

I had in my mind the thought of some type of drop down bracket so I went about doing a little garage fabrication (I'm limited to a hack saw, file, and drill so you'll have to excuse the crude nature of the initial prototype). There are four holes drilled. One of the two on the top had to be slightly bigger than the other to pass over the small nob. The two lower holes are the same and are spaced apart to be in line with the holes in the rubber cube that the factory bars went into The bracket goes over the "bars", then I put a spacer into the holes for the rubber cube. 1/4" bolts (2 1/2 inches long ) go through the bottom holes, then through the spacers and a nyloc nut on the other end. The spacers allow for tension to be put on the bolt as the rubber would just squish as you tighten it without the spacers.

IMG_7024 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

IMG_7023 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

IMG_7025 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr



I put the small pipe clamp over the post with the small nob and up against the bracket to keep it in place on the factory bars. It seems to stay in place as it did in the factory configuration and gives just under 1/2" of clearance of the CBI support bar until I come up with some other way to keep it from moving (just for added staying power I put another clamp on the other bar after I took the pic). I'm going to keep an eye out for something to replace the pipe clamps, but it will work for now. We'll see how it goes.

Tomorrow the Icon suspension will be installed so I'll add some pics of the "finished" product aftewards.

 

[Cobblecrazy]

The new lift installed. About 2.5" higher than stock with the nose down rake similar to stock.

Front 2.5's
IMG_7036 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

Rear 2.0's with remote res
IMG_7037 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

Expedition springs and rear track bar. I was a little concerned in going with the expedition spring as I didn't want it driving like a 1 ton truck when not loaded with stuff. At this point the ride seems smooth and I don't feel jarred when hitting bumps in the road. I have the roof box with a few camping items (tent, sleeping bag, folding chair), as well as, a backpack and a few running shoes, inside the box. In the photo you can see the extension of the KDSS. Seems to be okay, but I will be keeping an eye on it to see if anything seems to be out of the ordinary.
IMG_7038 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

Upper and lower rear link arm (can't see the upper in photo)
IMG_7039 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

Just a few pics out and about. Installed the Yakima Spareride tire mounted bike carrier as my fatbike doesn't fit on the roof mounts, and it's a nice bike mount that's on at all times. Additionally I may take off the roof bike mounts when I go with some type of roof top tent. As you can see I still just have the stock spare tire. I haven't decided if I'm going to the 285's anytime soon, and I haven't made the final decision to stay with the KO2, or go to the Duratracs I had on my Tacoma.

IMG_7027 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

IMG_7028 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

 

[Cobblecrazy]

Another issue I was concerned about was the rear camera being covered up by the bumper/tire mount. I've seen the information on how to re-route the camera wiring and mount it somewhere on the swing out. I went with the dual swing out in part as it offered the ability to open the swing outs while our teardrop style camper was still attached. Not having seen/used the one piece swing out I can only go by what I've seen in pictures and videos. It seems as if the single swing out puts the tire a little more in the center, while the dual swing out seems to have it a little more towards the passenger side.

Even with everything closed I still have a little view of things behind me. This first shot was in a parking lot at a trailhead and I could see directly behind me and across to the other row of parking (sorry for the dust on the screen).

IMG_7044 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

This second shot is backing up to hook up our trailer. The hitch is a little to the left (in the picture) so I can still see its general location (a small flag or similar would enable you to see exactly where it is) and the tongue on the trailer.

IMG_7048 by cobblecrazy, on Flickr

As this is the original basic spare AT 265/70/17 that came with the 4runner, I will be interested to see what a more aggressive, and larger, tire will do to the view. Additionally, according to CBI, their panel where the gas/water can holder attaches is pre-drilled for the Rotopax system, and I'm assuming the view would be better on that side if I were to swap them out. I have another use for the Rotopax so I might get their water and gas container and test fit them at some point on the CBI bumper.