Member III
Xj vs Zj vs 4 Runner
- Thread starter Courage
- Start date
Wow guys, thanks so much for all the info! I really appreciate it! Sorry for not responding sooner, had a busy last few days.
I think in my original description of what I am looking for I might have overstated the amount of offroading this vehicle will see. It's not going to be much at all. Probably mostly stuff a 2 wheel drive compact pick up could do, aside from the mud aspect. Are the wj Jeeps super low to the ground? I kinda was planning to not lift whatever I get, so I don't want to get something that has no ground clearance. Also, how does the Quadra Drive work on icy roads at speed? Is it kinda sketchy like have lsd or lockers? How much better is the overland trim than the limited?
I've run across a couple 4th gen 4 runners in my budget, but they're at the the very top of it, with high miles.
I'm really considering a 2003 wj Overland trim with 137k miles (looks like city miles, it's pretty clean, except for the drivers seat) ($3,500) but not sure if I'll regret not getting an xj. I feel like the xjs look nicer stock. Although, your Grey "mild" version looks super sick! Also, they say "the passenger side door air doesn’t push heat just cold, the rest work very very well!" Does that seem like it'd be a good deal? Not quite sure exactly what these go for...
Thanks again!
Courage
I think in my original description of what I am looking for I might have overstated the amount of offroading this vehicle will see. It's not going to be much at all. Probably mostly stuff a 2 wheel drive compact pick up could do, aside from the mud aspect. Are the wj Jeeps super low to the ground? I kinda was planning to not lift whatever I get, so I don't want to get something that has no ground clearance. Also, how does the Quadra Drive work on icy roads at speed? Is it kinda sketchy like have lsd or lockers? How much better is the overland trim than the limited?
I've run across a couple 4th gen 4 runners in my budget, but they're at the the very top of it, with high miles.
I'm really considering a 2003 wj Overland trim with 137k miles (looks like city miles, it's pretty clean, except for the drivers seat) ($3,500) but not sure if I'll regret not getting an xj. I feel like the xjs look nicer stock. Although, your Grey "mild" version looks super sick! Also, they say "the passenger side door air doesn’t push heat just cold, the rest work very very well!" Does that seem like it'd be a good deal? Not quite sure exactly what these go for...
Thanks again!
Courage
I had a 96 ZJ with the V8, it had a very low lift and was heavily trimmed to fit 33x12.5 tires. This truck did great on the trails, but it was not reliable and I don't think it was long enough to sleep inside. With those tires it got a max of ~17 mpg on the freeway.
I currently have a 2000 4Runner with a manual transmission, lifted and running 32" tires. This truck has been incredibly reliable, frequently gets ~20mpg on long freeway drives, and I've slept in it for dozens of nights on the trail. It's not as capable as the ZJ but overall has been a much more pleasant vehicle to own and drive.
A friend of mine has a WJ that he sleeps in when camping. It's much nicer inside than my ZJ was, and does well on the trail.
Another option you might want to consider is an XTerra. You can get the 1st gen with a manual transmission (not sure about the 2nd gen). They are reliable, have good interior space, and are excellent offorad.
I currently have a 2000 4Runner with a manual transmission, lifted and running 32" tires. This truck has been incredibly reliable, frequently gets ~20mpg on long freeway drives, and I've slept in it for dozens of nights on the trail. It's not as capable as the ZJ but overall has been a much more pleasant vehicle to own and drive.
A friend of mine has a WJ that he sleeps in when camping. It's much nicer inside than my ZJ was, and does well on the trail.
Another option you might want to consider is an XTerra. You can get the 1st gen with a manual transmission (not sure about the 2nd gen). They are reliable, have good interior space, and are excellent offorad.
I must have been lucky with my jeeps both WJ and ZJ models have been very reliable. in stock trim with 31" tires they will do anything you are talking about and more. if you want the best snow/ice config go with the V8 most will have the full time four wheel drive transfer cases that are designed for that type of driving. I only like the 1998 model for the ZJ lots of reasons but just to much to type. but it will be the worst of the bunch for MPG 13 at best. the WJ V8 would be your best option stock they can get 18-20 hwy. currently I have 4 Cherokee's 2004 WJ V8 2002 WJ 4.0 2001 WJ4.0 1998 ZJ V8 LIMITED you can DM me for a phone conversation and I can give you a run down on what I have learned owning all of them. all but one of these are on 2"-3" lifts with 31" tire and one WJ 4.0 on stock size tires no lift. All of the Cherokee's XJ,ZJ,WJ will be more than you need off road even in stock configuration. I have also had many toyota's and will say they are very reliable and capable but your going to pay a premium for that name.. No matter what you choose if it's over 20yrs old your going to have stuff to fix. unless you are the lucky one that finds a perffectly maintained rig. buy a lotery ticket the same day.
couple of shots for you. these are all daily drivers that we camp and overland with.
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tjZO6, nice WJ one of the best I have seen. for what you have in yours he could buy a brand new 5th gen maybe 2 haha.. killer build. What's the story with the red one next to yours?
OP for what it's wort my new 5th gen gets 16-17 MPG with or without the GFC mild lift and 33" tires and that's a modern rig. and as for electrical problems the 1st month we had it, I drove it the night before with the drivers seat all the way back and the motor failed unknown to me, then the next morning my wife went to go to work and could not reach the pedals. She was stranded good thing my ZJ was there she ended up driving that until Toyota fixed her seat.
OP for what it's wort my new 5th gen gets 16-17 MPG with or without the GFC mild lift and 33" tires and that's a modern rig. and as for electrical problems the 1st month we had it, I drove it the night before with the drivers seat all the way back and the motor failed unknown to me, then the next morning my wife went to go to work and could not reach the pedals. She was stranded good thing my ZJ was there she ended up driving that until Toyota fixed her seat.
Advocate III
What you already have would be roomier than the other choices. Like others have stated, cost of changing vehicles is more than the MPG costs. I have a 2019 GMC AT4 and a 2005 Tacoma. Tacoma is on and off road, but with trail modifications my. AT4 has longer distance and MPG.
Advocate III
Advocate I
To be fair I don't think you over-sold how much off roading you plan, it's just where my head goes. WJs are actually pretty low stock. Well, not low but not "high." Quadra Drive is ideal for something like ice/snow... that's really what it was engineered for more than rock crawling. Overland vs. Limited is sort of an odd one, because you could basically option an Limited with everything that makes an Overland an Overland with a few exceptions (like the rock "rails" which aren't hardcore sliders but are still a nice addition for mild off roading with some rocks). If you find a nice, clean Limited I wouldn't overlook it. A Limited can be 4.0L I6 or 4.7L V8, and it could be optioned with the HO 4.7L V8 too so keep that in mind. There were a ton of 4x4 systems available in WJs, but I'm pretty sure you could get Quadra Drive in the Limited just not sure if it was standard on the Limited like it is on the Overland. A stock WJ on a stock-size (or +1") all terrain will do everything you want (and more) and will still be a very, very nice/comfortable road vehicle (assuming everything is in good working order, of course) and the V8 can actually hit 20 MPG freeway at stock height with a mild AT tire.
As for the heater issue, that 100% sounds like the super-common blend-door issue. People don't fix it because by the book it requires removing the whole dash which is a massive job, and you're almost guaranteed to break some of the various plastic pieces and clips. BUT there are blend door kits made for doing it without taking the dash out. The best way to do it, IMHO, is by cutting some of the ducting and "plastic welding" it back together. Look it up on YouTube (search "WJ blend door fix" or something like that). If you can't find a video, I can poke around.
All of that said, in general a 4Runner is going to be more reliable with less silly little Jeep problems...
-TJ
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Thanks again for all of your advice! I really appreciate it!
Cracks me up about your seat moter quiting in your Toyota.
Nice rigs! I've enjoyed looking at all the pics you guys have posted!
The more I think about it, the less I think camping in the back of my pickup will work. I just think it will draw to much attention, crawling into the back and all... Also, realized I should check, out of the vehicles we've discussed, (mainly wj, zj, xj, 3rd and 4th gen 4 runner) which, if any, have back seats that fold completely flat? Also, approximately how much space is in between the wheel wells is there in a wj? Alot of the time my sister will probably be camping with me, and I'm realizing that maybe a mini van is the only incognito vehicle that will comfortably fit both of us.
Sadly the Overlander wj sold yesterday, but there's way more overlanders, and highly optioned limited wjs out there than I realized.
Also, kind of a side note, is the main reason that you prefer the 98 zj, because of the ability for it to have the 5.9 magnum? I ran across one of those, as well as a 94 zj with a 318 and a 5 speed. Both seemed pretty cool, although probably not quite what I'm looking for, especially since the 94 was lifted quite a bit.
Also, I pmd you, David. Thanks.
Cracks me up about your seat moter quiting in your Toyota.
Nice rigs! I've enjoyed looking at all the pics you guys have posted!
The more I think about it, the less I think camping in the back of my pickup will work. I just think it will draw to much attention, crawling into the back and all... Also, realized I should check, out of the vehicles we've discussed, (mainly wj, zj, xj, 3rd and 4th gen 4 runner) which, if any, have back seats that fold completely flat? Also, approximately how much space is in between the wheel wells is there in a wj? Alot of the time my sister will probably be camping with me, and I'm realizing that maybe a mini van is the only incognito vehicle that will comfortably fit both of us.
Sadly the Overlander wj sold yesterday, but there's way more overlanders, and highly optioned limited wjs out there than I realized.
Also, kind of a side note, is the main reason that you prefer the 98 zj, because of the ability for it to have the 5.9 magnum? I ran across one of those, as well as a 94 zj with a 318 and a 5 speed. Both seemed pretty cool, although probably not quite what I'm looking for, especially since the 94 was lifted quite a bit.
Also, I pmd you, David. Thanks.
Advocate I
Have you looked into the AWD Astro Vans? They used to be super, duper cheap but the Overland community discovered them a few years ago and prices for a decent one have gone up. You get a pretty reliable GM 4.3L V6 (basically a GenII small block Chevy with 2 cylinders lopped off) and a 4L60E (which don't have the greatest reputation, but with only a 4.3 in front of them they're pretty good... and there are millions of Tahoes and Suburbans with 200k+ miles on one with a 5.3L V8), AWD (not to be confused with true 4WD) and a ton of space. I'm not sure what they actually return for MPG, but probably in the same ballpark as everything else you're considering.
-TJ
Off-Road Ranger I
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Wow, someone abused the crap outta that Lexus. I still have one original bush on the rear track bar, everything else was replaced as it wore out,, between 200 and 275,000 miles.
Off-Road Ranger I
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I’m gonna raise a lot of feathers here, I’ve owned both Toyotas and jeeps. The jeeps were a lot of fun to own and drive. The Toyotas were/are a lot of fun to own and drive. Here’s the thing. Toyota components last about twice as long as Jeep components. 4-500,00 miles is commonplace for Toyota drivetrains, stock bushings will easily last 150,000 miles driving with finesse. Starters, alternators, A/C pumps, all those things, 150,000 miles is commonplace. My big brother to the 4Runner has 371,000 miles on the clock and we recently finished a trip up to the Arctic Ocean. No break downs, not even a hiccup, just regular anal retentitive maintenance over the past 11 years after an initial baseline. Your vehicle choice is yours. However, buying something for a couple thousand dollars less than a 4Runner may end up being a terrible money pit. 150,000 miles on a 4 runner is like 75,000 miles on a domestic. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Cost of fuel vs cost of an additional vehicle and what it would take to make it comfortable and reliable, sticking with the truck is your best bet. Also, your MPG assumptions of the vehicles you don't have are very optimistic.
Thanks for all of the help guys! Really appreciating it. At this point I think I'll just keep my eye out for a good deal, and get whatever seems like it will work the best.
Regarding MPG, I'm referencing strictly highway driving. Not sure if you still think those numbers are optimistic?
Going to look into some of the different awd mini vans.
Also, for you Jeep guys, what's the deal with the exploding into flames when rear ended? I remember hearing something about the xj, wj, and zj all having that problem, but when I looked into it, I couldn't find much info. Doesn't the 3rd gen 4 runner also have the gas tank located behind the rear axel?
Regarding MPG, I'm referencing strictly highway driving. Not sure if you still think those numbers are optimistic?
Going to look into some of the different awd mini vans.
Also, for you Jeep guys, what's the deal with the exploding into flames when rear ended? I remember hearing something about the xj, wj, and zj all having that problem, but when I looked into it, I couldn't find much info. Doesn't the 3rd gen 4 runner also have the gas tank located behind the rear axel?
Advocate I
If you stick to stock suspension, stock wheels/tires, and the speed limit (or less in states/areas with 70, 75 or even 80 MPH speed limits) you might make your estimates. I legit got 20 MPG pure-freeway in a 4.7 HO WJ on a 2" lift with +1" ATs doing 70-75 MPH (in 65-70 MPH speed limit areas). I was trying pretty hard to be smooth and consistent with throttle, coast as much as I could when I saw traffic slowing down etc, but it was a pretty realistic effort. Driving a bit more "normal" I'd say 18 MPG is right. Also, to achieve peak MPG everything on the vehicle needs to be in good working order, and things like the fuel, spark and emissions systems need to be absolutely tip-top. Dirty injectors, old plugs, clogged/ing cats will all kill MPG...
-TJ
Joeguyzxj
Rank II
Enthusiast I
My XJ Gets 18mpg , on the highway with no regearing 3 inch lift and 33s 131000 on the odometer, problem is in town and on dirt roads ,the mileage drops to 15 or worse with low air pressure. The 4.0 is almost bulletproof and the take a beating a stock XJ should get you around 20 with a five speed. The WJ with the 4.0 is about the same with a 32 inch tire. So I’d imagine the ZJ will get the same with a 4.0 but trannys are not as strong from what I’ve seen. Hope that helps
Advocate I
I guess I should mention the penalty in MPG for a big lift and big (well, moderate by today's standards) tires isn't actually all that bad with the proper re-gearing. When my WJ was on a ~7", 4.88s, 35"s and the 4.7HO it'd still manage 14-15 MPG doing 70-75+. My XJ still does about the same and is also on 35"s but with 5.38s and the stock 4.0HO. To me, I wouldn't let the ~4 MPG stop me from going big if my use case suited it. I know once again, this doesn't apply to the OP but I think the assumption is 35"s on a XJ or WJ will slash the MPG in half or worse.
-TJ
-TJ
Thanks for the clarification. It seems like I should be able to get close to 20 mpg on trips. On past trips in my Ram 2500 with a 360, I've gotten 14.5-15, so I'd think with the same driving habits and a much lighter vehicle, I should do ok.
That's surprising to me how little your 7" lift and 35s affected it!
Anyone have any thoughts on the gas tanks on the wj, zj, and xj exploding?
I was thinking maybe a heavy duty rear bumper might rectify the situation, if it's even something to be concerned about...
That's surprising to me how little your 7" lift and 35s affected it!
Anyone have any thoughts on the gas tanks on the wj, zj, and xj exploding?
I was thinking maybe a heavy duty rear bumper might rectify the situation, if it's even something to be concerned about...
Option #1.
Keep the Ram. Outfit it with a cap, rooftop AC, hot water, and solar. Or consider a FWC or Bundutec camper.
Long trips and slab, are always best in a fullsize. That truck is going to get really small, really quick.
A rust free XJ is awesome, but $5000-7000. +$2000 to swap in a junkyard manual transmission. +$2000 to install a Ford 8.8 rear axle. +$2000 to weld up the boxes as needed.
The XJ is like a cool 80's square body GM truck or suburban, before they went all globalhomo. We remember how much fun they were, but forgot that we custom swapped the engine, trans, and both axles out of them.
Keep the Ram. Outfit it with a cap, rooftop AC, hot water, and solar. Or consider a FWC or Bundutec camper.
Long trips and slab, are always best in a fullsize. That truck is going to get really small, really quick.
A rust free XJ is awesome, but $5000-7000. +$2000 to swap in a junkyard manual transmission. +$2000 to install a Ford 8.8 rear axle. +$2000 to weld up the boxes as needed.
The XJ is like a cool 80's square body GM truck or suburban, before they went all globalhomo. We remember how much fun they were, but forgot that we custom swapped the engine, trans, and both axles out of them.
