To lift or not to lift….old suburban

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Cahaba Overland

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We have a stock 1997 k1500 suburban that is our primary adventure vehicle. It pulls our big trailer, hauls kayaks on the roof, and is a ton of fun overall. So far we have thrown some decent trails at it with no issues. We have not been happy with our current tire situation but don’t want to buy anything until we make a decision on lifting it.

Current setup
-265/75/16 milestar Patagonia MT (louder than we want) on 16x8 vision steel wheels
-12k winch, maxtrax, all recovery straps, shackles, etc

Thinking about
-285/75/16 general grabber AT
-2” Torsion key replacement with rear blocks

My wife is short, kids are still short (for the time being), and it’s the primary tow vehicle. I know it will gain some off-road performance with a lift, but not sure the on road sacrifice is worth it. Reaching out to the group for your thoughts, experiences, etc to help us make the decision.
 

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ThundahBeagle

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Big fan of the GMT 400 platform. Love that Suburban. I've had two of the 2-door big Blazers from that platform.

I disagree about the lift. The truck is old to the point it could probably use revitalizing underneath, so why not do a mild upgrade while you are there. A mild, 2 inch lift can go a good way for ground clearance. Above snow, ice, some stones, that much higher above any mud, keep the hot exhaust 2 inches further off any dry scrub brush...there are reasons for a mild lift outside of performance. And a 1 to 2 inch lift doesnt have to be overly complicated or force a bunch of other upgrades. They make hinged side steps you can pull down with your foot so the wife and kids can get in more easily.

You may already have the G80 semi-auto locker in the rear. Is it the best locker? Not from what I've read. Can it be a help if you know how to use it? Yes. Look for the silver sticker in your glove box. You will see a bunch of alpha- numeric codes. That's where you find things like Z71 and G80.

Also, tires. Those Patagonias look mean. I dont know the terrain you are used to but you could get a similar sized tire in an A/T and reclaim a little economy. But again, depends the terrain you are used to.

Just my opinion of course.
 

Cahaba Overland

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Big fan of the GMT 400 platform. Love that Suburban. I've had two of the 2-door big Blazers from that platform.

I disagree about the lift. The truck is old to the point it could probably use revitalizing underneath, so why not do a mild upgrade while you are there. A mild, 2 inch lift can go a good way for ground clearance. Above snow, ice, some stones, that much higher above any mud, keep the hot exhaust 2 inches further off any dry scrub brush...there are reasons for a mild lift outside of performance. And a 1 to 2 inch lift doesnt have to be overly complicated or force a bunch of other upgrades. They make hinged side steps you can pull down with your foot so the wife and kids can get in more easily.

You may already have the G80 semi-auto locker in the rear. Is it the best locker? Not from what I've read. Can it be a help if you know how to use it? Yes. Look for the silver sticker in your glove box. You will see a bunch of alpha- numeric codes. That's where you find things like Z71 and G80.

Also, tires. Those Patagonias look mean. I dont know the terrain you are used to but you could get a similar sized tire in an A/T and reclaim a little economy. But again, depends the terrain you are used to.

Just my opinion of course.
Off-road, the Patagonia’s are very impressive especially given the price point. I have the Grabber AT on my GX470. They are incredibly quiet.
 
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ThundahBeagle

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That's not to discount anything BillieBob said. Hes not incorrect about anything he's said. I just disagree, given the equipment options you have and the age of the vehicle.

Theres a GMC Suburban GMT 400 in a town near my, parked in the driveway in front of the garage of a nice house on a small farm. That's what I like
 

tjZ06

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First, awesome Sub!

Personally I think it's worth it to get a little more clearance, break-over etc. on such a big rig. Also, the lift allows for the bigger tire, which gives more sidewall which makes for both a better ride aired down but also better traction and floatation. Of course, BillieBob is not wrong: selectable lockers front and rear (or at least front, keeping your G80 rear) will get your further than the lift will on difficult trails. But life isn't a zero-sum game, it's not always one OR the other exclusively. You could always do the lift and bigger tires now, and do lockers and regear down the road. Second, for most overlanders it's not about what'll let you push it that much further/deeper on the gnarliest trail you can find. Again, the lockers win if that were the case. But, for most overlanders it's about what makes you more comfortable going down the mild trails we tend to traverse and IMHO the lift and larger tires win in that you'll feel then all the time every time you're off road, not just in a jam like lockers. Finally, are there even selectable locker options for the front diff in those? If not (which I believe is the case), the whole "lockers vs. lift" thing is sort of a moot- point.

Now, all of that said, all lifts are not created equal. At 2" I don't think torsion keys and blocks are a "bad" idea by any means, but it's prob about the limit for that type of lift. With the keys at least you're not cranking the bars, so ride-quality shouldn't suffer.

However, you're modifying the suspension geometry at ride-height, which *could* adversely effect ride. You don't want control arms on an IFS at extreme angles for similar reasons to why you don't want short links at high angles on a linked solid axle rig. Once the A-arm sit at extreme angles, the tire has to make a big sweep through initial travel (known as scrub) which will add unwanted, undampened resistance to suspension travel (roughly, it acts like additional spring rate). This can make the ride more "jarring" on small hits that can't overcome that initial resistance to suspension movement and therefore transfer the hit to the chassis and body.

The other thing is you're setting the suspension up further into what normally would be "droop" travel at rest. This means you have less droop, which does make for a more jarring ride in situations where the tires can't drop out enough to stay in contact with a trail with lots of holes. Typical washboard will probably unaffected since I presume you'd still have enough down-travel for that. On the upside (pun intended) you'll have more up-travel which should make big-hits smoother, if properly dampened. Anyway, my point is that generally people seems to assume that a lift == more travel, and most of the time that's not the case. Generally you're either moving the entire suspension down (like a bracket-based lift kit for your IFS), changing the relationship between wheel center-line and the suspension pick-up points (like a spindle-lift or differently shaped A-arms that are not actually wider in the front or a block in the rear), or you're changing where you're sitting within the given suspension travel (like is the case with torsion keys, coil-spring spacers, and the like). Of course, there are true "long travel" kits out there and that's a whole other story... but much less common, especially in the Overland world.

-TJ
 
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MazeVX

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So given the age of the it a general suspension overhaul seems to be a good idea, and I don't believe it would make sense doing so with stock components.
A little lift gives you more uptravel which results in increased comfort and safety on bad roads, just make sure you go with high quality stuff and really good shocks.
 
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I had one way back ( 2 door blazer ) and a little extra ground clearance would have helped because the frame is so low. I lived in mine for a summer ( out of necessity) but the rear end blew up leaving a stop light one day and I couldn't afford to fix it at the time and had to get rid of it. I still miss this truck though and would grab another one up in a heartbeat if it was in good shape.
I don't know how rough a torsion key lift would would make the ride, I always wanted to solid axle swap mine and run 35s but never had the chance.
I keep telling my wife I want to find a suburban to do this with but she tells me I'm only allowed 1 project at a time and I already have the Jeep compass, Jeep LJ, and 2 trailers lol.
10399358_15786102916_5416_n.jpg
 

Cahaba Overland

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First, awesome Sub!

Personally I think it's worth it to get a little more clearance, break-over etc. on such a big rig. Also, the lift allows for the bigger tire, which gives more sidewall which makes for both a better ride aired down but also better traction and floatation. Of course, BillieBob is not wrong: selectable lockers front and rear (or at least front, keeping your G80 rear) will get your further than the lift will on difficult trails. But life isn't a zero-sum game, it's not always one OR the other exclusively. You could always do the lift and bigger tires now, and do lockers and regear down the road. Second, for most overlanders it's not about what'll let you push it that much further/deeper on the gnarliest trail you can find. Again, the lockers win if that were the case. But, for most overlanders it's about what makes you more comfortable going down the mild trails we tend to traverse and IMHO the lift and larger tires win in that you'll feel then all the time every time you're off road, not just in a jam like lockers. Finally, are there even selectable locker options for the front diff in those? If not (which I believe is the case), the whole "lockers vs. lift" thing is sort of a moot- point.

Now, all of that said, all lifts are not created equal. At 2" I don't think torsion keys and blocks are a "bad" idea by any means, but it's prob about the limit for that type of lift. With the keys at least you're not cranking the bars, so ride-quality shouldn't suffer.

However, you're modifying the suspension geometry at ride-height, which *could* adversely effect ride. You don't want control arms on an IFS at extreme angles for similar reasons to why you don't want short links at high angles on a linked solid axle rig. Once the A-arm sit at extreme angles, the tire has to make a big sweep through initial travel (known as scrub) which will add unwanted, undampened resistance to suspension travel (roughly, it acts like additional spring rate). This can make the ride more "jarring" on small hits that can't overcome that initial resistance to suspension movement and therefore transfer the hit to the chassis and body.

The other thing is you're setting the suspension up further into what normally would be "droop" travel at rest. This means you have less droop, which does make for a more jarring ride in situations where the tires can't drop out enough to stay in contact with a trail with lots of holes. Typical washboard will probably unaffected since I presume you'd still have enough down-travel for that. On the upside (pun intended) you'll have more up-travel which should make big-hits smoother, if properly dampened. Anyway, my point is that generally people seems to assume that a lift == more travel, and most of the time that's not the case. Generally you're either moving the entire suspension down (like a bracket-based lift kit for your IFS), changing the relationship between wheel center-line and the suspension pick-up points (like a spindle-lift or differently shaped A-arms that are not actually wider in the front or a block in the rear), or you're changing where you're sitting within the given suspension travel (like is the case with torsion keys, coil-spring spacers, and the like). Of course, there are true "long travel" kits out there and that's a whole other story... but much less common, especially in the Overland world.

-TJ
Lots to think through there. Thanks
 

MidOH

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More lift equals less down travel. Will that ifs, still work ok?

My experience with those GM's, is they ride poorly when lifted with keys. And they aren't so hot off road, either. I'd get the sawzall out, and fit some Bushwacker cut out fender flares on. Leave the suspension alone, maybe invest in good shocks.
 
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tjZ06

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More lift equals less down travel. Will that ifs, still work ok?

My experience with those GM's, is they ride poorly when lifted with keys. And they aren't so hot off road, either. I'd get the sawzall out, and fit some Bushwacker cut out fender flares on. Leave the suspension alone, maybe invest in good shocks.
All fair points, IMHO.

-TJ
 

ThundahBeagle

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I had one way back ( 2 door blazer ) and a little extra ground clearance would have helped because the frame is so low. I lived in mine for a summer ( out of necessity) but the rear end blew up leaving a stop light one day and I couldn't afford to fix it at the time and had to get rid of it. I still miss this truck though and would grab another one up in a heartbeat if it was in good shape.
I don't know how rough a torsion key lift would would make the ride, I always wanted to solid axle swap mine and run 35s but never had the chance.
I keep telling my wife I want to find a suburban to do this with but she tells me I'm only allowed 1 project at a time and I already have the Jeep compass, Jeep LJ, and 2 trailers lol.
View attachment 217948
That's what I had. Two of those. A 93 and a 94. Both gone now
 
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Sounds like it goes where you want it go without any problems. Why do you want to lift it? Also agree that cracking up the torsion bars will make it ride like a tank. If you want taller tires then you also may need to re-gear to keep the towing capacity for towing your trailer.
 

MidOH

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"Lift kit to run 35's"

Hahahahahahahahahaha. [Laughs in Ford fenders]
Bwah hahahaha [Laughs in Ford spare tire location]
 
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tjZ06

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"Lift kit to run 35's"

Hahahahahahahahahaha. [Laughs in Ford fenders]
Bwah hahahaha [Laughs in Ford spare tire location]
And just like that, you went from thoughtful, helpful contribution to the thread to needless jackassery. Bravo.

-TJ
 
I had one way back ( 2 door blazer ) and a little extra ground clearance would have helped because the frame is so low. I lived in mine for a summer ( out of necessity) but the rear end blew up leaving a stop light one day and I couldn't afford to fix it at the time and had to get rid of it. I still miss this truck though and would grab another one up in a heartbeat if it was in good shape.
I don't know how rough a torsion key lift would would make the ride, I always wanted to solid axle swap mine and run 35s but never had the chance.
I keep telling my wife I want to find a suburban to do this with but she tells me I'm only allowed 1 project at a time and I already have the Jeep compass, Jeep LJ, and 2 trailers lol.
View attachment 217948
That series of Blazer is getting hard to find in decent shape. Always liked it but never had one. I did have a 1970 K-5, who could have guessed those would become so valuable. Mine was a 350 with a 4 speed.
 
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ThundahBeagle

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That series of Blazer is getting hard to find in decent shape. Always liked it but never had one. I did have a 1970 K-5, who could have guessed those would become so valuable. Mine was a 350 with a 4 speed.
...sand the 350 with 4 speed (auto and manual) from the 1970's carried over all the way through 1994 when the last full size, 2-door Blazer rolled off the line. But by then the 700r4 became electronified and was dubbed the 4L60E, and the 350 motor had been given throttle body and electric fuel pump. The 2-door did continue, however as the 2-door Tahoe from 1995 to 99 or 2000. I'd be happy with one of those as well as it is just a re-badged Blazer.

I especially liked these precisely because the top did not come off. They usually had a nice little roof rack on them that was great for kayaks or whatever.

Someday I will pick up another
 
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