Rig Advice

[Justinwrites]

Hi, so we're still new to the forums. We have a 1990 Suburban with a bad engine. This of course happened after replacing pretty much the entire powertrain (transmission, transfer case, differential, rear axels, breaks, tires, misc.) I'm into this thing for nearly $7,000 over a year. Still plainly cheaper than buying anything remotely newer. But, I'm looking at another $6,000 to get her road trip certified. She's old. I'm no GM fan. My wife has lost confidence. But I also have a family of 5 plus a dog., two of which are in car seats, the teenager is 6'2".

(deep breath)

Before I sink repairs into a truck my wife doesn't like, and I'm ambivilent towards I was contemplating buying something different. The trick is the seating arrangements. It would be my daily driver, and we have a minivan, so running about town it does not need to seat everyone. But to keep that many seats in our price range (sub 7k) really limits us to American suvs. But we were contemplating starting off with a smaller SUV like a pathfinder or 4runner because we could honestly take two vehicles (minivan or eventually another suv) to most base camp type places.

I'm torn between the devil i know ( I know this is probably the best suburban model year).
Thoughts from those with more experience than I?

 

[theick]

Does it have a 350 in it? If so you should be able to replace the motor for half that. Of course you still have a 1990 suburban. It has some limitations but it does have some strengths as well. It might breakdown a lot but it is super easy to fix when it does.

 

[Justinwrites]

Yes, 350 tbi. I'm not particularly mechanically adept. I'm trying to teach myself these things, but I worry digging into an engine swap is above my *very* basic skill set. That said I've had one shop refuse to touch it because they fear that this sort of beast will just keep nickel and diming me and they don't want me to blame them lol. Two other shops quoted me $4,800 p&l, and $4,600 p&l (the latter was a GM dealer) with crate motor with 3 year warranty. So that puts me with two big parts of the power train under warranty (the transmission a year gone just sitting waiting for an engine). And like you said, it'll still be a Suburban. lol

I appriciate the feedback because I am conflicted. I recognize that Suburbans really could be the American Landy Defender, but those are finnicky beasts too.

 

[Graeman]

May I ask why the Sub was so neglected to get into this kind of replacement shape? Is this a high mileage vehicle? For the price range that you are looking to spend, you could purchase a used Toyota Sequoia (largest of the Toyota family), Ford Expedition, Chevrolet Tahoe, Jeep Commander, Isuzu Trooper, Mitsubishi Montero or a Land Rover Discovery.
I just recently did the same search (my truck was stolen) and I finally purchased a Toyota 4Runner. We are a family of 2, so it was much harder to narrow down the search. I would definitely take your son with you to see what vehicle he will be comfortable riding in while sitting in the back seat. I would look for the one with the least amount of mileage on it. Preferably a 1 owner vehicle who can give you an idea of the maintenance that has or has not been performed. The Suburban is an excellent people mover and since you have already replaced most of the drivetrain why not complete it with a new engine. You really do to want to travel everywhere in 2 vehicles, that will get expensive with fuel costs and adding extra unneeded mileage to both vehicles. If it will make your wife feel better - tell her to look at this as a restoration project instead of a parts replacement.

 

[Justinwrites]

This is kind of a long story, sorry. We have only been in the Pacific Northwest for a few years. Among the many drawbacks of moving to a part of the country where you don't know anyone is trying to find a mechanic. And we did after reading reviews and asking around, we settled on a shop. He serviced our cars (my current sentra and my wife's former outback) for a year and a half, including some typical high mile stuff like cv joints and half shafts and so on. It became apparent that we needed a vehicle to carry more people around and instead of dealing with car shopping I thought, "hey, I"ll ask my mechanic if he knows anybody." He talked me into buying an older but solid chasis whih needed a used engine and transmission. And I basically bought a $500 dollar truck and spend $2500 on the latter two items. It took forever for him to get it done (months). I had it a week before the transfer case went. A couple of days later the differential and tires (no surprise). So I didn't have much time to put it through it's paces before I absolutely had to drive it on a 4000 mile round trip to clear out a storage locker.

The breaks failed, the axel broke, and then it caught fire while I was 2,000 miles from home. It spent a week, $1,200, and a lot of my last shreds of hair getting new axels, bearings, breaks, and tires again before I could drive it home. On the way home the muffler blew out in Idaho. When I got back to Washington State I found my mechanics shop cleared out. Totally vacant. Gone in less than 2 weeks. I'd only taken delivery of the truck 4 weeks before that. Ok, take your lumps for trusting someone I said. Never know what an old truck might bring with it. *I* have maintained it since. But the transmission went out in the mountains. After being towed home and getting that fixed the truck developed a deep dark knock and really started smoking. I've had it confirmed to be an engine bearing.

So in total, it's stranded us twice, caught fire once. I'm not real prone on throwing stuff away if it can be salvaged... But I'm starting to feel a little dumb. Part of me says what else could go wrong. The work order reminds me after the engine, I still have a high pressure power steering hose, radiator, and to figure out why it steers like a drunk sailor.

As for mileage I have no idea if I trust the 89,xxxx on the odometer. I have no idea what the used motor had. I trusted my mechanic after explaining to him what I neeeded. And being of limited technical prowess I wouldn't know anybetter anyway. But... I'm definitely learning some lessons.

 

[Graeman]

Dang.... Sounds like your mechanic did a number on you. Definitely sold you someone else's problem child. So you will be looking at a vehicle that needs engine, radiator, Power steering system, ball joints, tie rods, before it will be roadworthy enough for your wife to trust it. You might be able to recoup your costs if you part out the Sub (if you have the space and time to do so), but it does sound like it is time to let it go and purchase another vehicle with less problems. Sorry to hear all of your misfortunes. You might need to come down to Ca, Nv or Az to purchase your next vehicle so that it is not a rust bucket or ill maintained. If your Sub was that bad then you know the other vehicles in your area are just as bad. If you need help in finding a vehicle in Az I will be glad to help out in your search. I am sure that others on this forum could help you in Ca & Nv.

 

[Graeman]

Do you tow? Or just need a vehicle large enough to fit the family comfortably? What all are you looking for in a vehicle?

 

[Vincent Keith]

It's a hard spot to be in - from experience. I've got a car in the garage that's worth more in parts than it is on the road - but I don't want to give it up. To get it back in excellent condition will cost me roughly double what the kbb value is.

A 2007 Ford Expedition 4WD Limited with 160K miles is would need a 3rd row seat is asking 11K Lower miles drive the price up quick. And it really is a shot in the dark.

Engine swaps are time-consuming but not all that difficult. There are several youtube tutorials on engine swaps that will give you a good idea of what's involved. If you think you're going to go forward - get a good repair manual Haynes and or Chiltons Sometimes having both is good.

You need to be meticulous in recording all electrical connections and vacuum hoses. The bigger hoses are not much of an issue.

You can rent or buy an engine hoist and an engine stand. Most crate motors will require the transfer of various parts from your old engine. Some of which you might consider getting rebuids for. Figure 1,500 - 2,000 for a crate motor; maybe 1,000 for a full used motor. (check with summit racing, maybe jegs, and ask around.

It's a tough call. If you do it yourself plan on several days maybe a full week. It goes slower when you have to stop and read the manual after each step.

If you decide to go for it, let me know - I think I'm close enough that maybe I could give you a hand for a day or two.

This could be your future :)



You know you're between a hard place and a rock when half of the advice is dump-it half is fix-it.

 

[Justinwrites]

Yeah, you know, stuff happens. I try to be dispassionate about it.

I do not tow. Mostly because I don't have anything to tow. We might at some point get a little popup or something. But I think if I wanted to do any real towing I'd feel more comfortable with a more purpose built truck. Kids are small 5 months, 2.5 years, and 15. We're avid campers and hikers. We would like to start camping a little further afield. Take longer roadtrips with fewer hotels. And I would like to learn to go offroading eventually. That's a lot to ask of a vehicle, I know. I don't see me doing the rubicon anytime soon lol. But fire roads and forest roads and just learning to go farther afield, as I said. Time is short. I have a lot of the world to see. May as well start in the western third of this continent, yeah?

As I said we've even contemplated having two small SUVs, and a minivan for around town. My wife isn't put off by driving off the beaten path or in weather. But I agree, double the trouble. I'm not big on creature comforts. Easy to clean. Easy to maintain. The only real requirements are real 4wd, and a/c if I ever get into the desert lol. And even that is pretty optional is the windows all work. It doesn't even have to be a specific vehicle right now, we can talk makes and models to keep an eye out for. I've got a Yellowstone -- Big Horns -- Glacier trip planned this summer. I was hoping to take the truck. I may have to divert to making sure the minivan is up to it at this point.

 

[Justinwrites]

It's a hard spot to be in - from experience. I've got a car in the garage that's worth more in parts than it is on the road - but I don't want to give it up. To get it back in excellent condition will cost me roughly double what the kbb value is.

A 2007 Ford Expedition 4WD Limited with 160K miles is would need a 3rd row seat is asking 11K Lower miles drive the price up quick. And it really is a shot in the dark.

Engine swaps are time-consuming but not all that difficult. There are several youtube tutorials on engine swaps that will give you a good idea of what's involved. If you think you're going to go forward - get a good repair manual Haynes and or Chiltons Sometimes having both is good.

You need to be meticulous in recording all electrical connections and vacuum hoses. The bigger hoses are not much of an issue.

You can rent or buy an engine hoist and an engine stand. Most crate motors will require the transfer of various parts from your old engine. Some of which you might consider getting rebuids for. Figure 1,500 - 2,000 for a crate motor; maybe 1,000 for a full used motor. (check with summit racing, maybe jegs, and ask around.

It's a tough call. If you do it yourself plan on several days maybe a full week. It goes slower when you have to stop and read the manual after each step.

If you decide to go for it, let me know - I think I'm close enough that maybe I could give you a hand for a day or two.

This could be your future :)

View attachment 19374

You know you're between a hard place and a rock when half of the advice is dump-it half is fix-it.

LOL, RIght! Thanks Vincent. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Graeman]

Just for example -
2007 Ford Expedition with 150k on it here in Phoenix is $9500.
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/6051941859.html

Or a Toyota Sequoia for $8995. https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/6039330376.html

 

[boss324]

You can also drop an LSx motor in it? Find a LQ4 6.0 and swap out your tired 350. The 90s suburban are tanks with the Solid front axle. If you decide to sell I would recommend the GMT800 series (99-2005) as I have an 03 2500 Suburban and its been a great family hauler. Does great off road and the real estate is such a luxury...Lol only weak link is the IFS but can be beefed up to take abuse. I've seen a bunch of these for 8-10k. Good luck bud.

14 years of ownership (115k) the following items below are my repairs:

4WD selector switch failure - $35 dollar part 10 minutes to replace

Bad MAF - $180

Bad cluster - $15 parts solder on

Bad AC compressor $1k

3 sets of tires

Plugs, coil pack, belts and that's it....Rest of the money are after market upgrades for this hobby!

Oh and still original brake pads and rotors with plenty left.

 

[Graeman]

The cool thing about having 2 SUV's would be that you are never traveling alone, always off road with a buddy. Plus, you can carry more stuff out with you to enjoy while camping and if your wife is a good driver it does make for more fun out on the trails. My wife used to drive our Tacoma during all of the difficult obstacles because she is a great listener and I am a really good spotter. So I would spot her through the coolest, most difficult stuff that we could find.

 

[Justinwrites]

Yeah I was kind of thinking it could be handy for getting unstuck and what not. I've always driven these zippy little sedans, aside from a forced stint with an old Ford that just shouldn't have been able to go anywhere and yet it did. So I'm learning a lot. This old Sub is like a broken in pair of boots. The upshot is they literally just don't make them like that, she's made of super common stuff, easy to reach everything, and I won't cry over fireroad pinstripes. I just remembered she hadn't been up here long. IRC the previous owner brought it up here from Arizona before he garaged it. Cars up here grow moss fast if left out, and this one had lots of sun damage but no moss.

Anyway, thanks for the feed back folks. I've got a lot to think about. One minute I'm done with it and eyeballing a somewhat newer and shinier rig. The next I'm thinking, hell, ain't that what overlanding is about? Adventure? And what other word is it for a total mechanical newb to try to tackle an engine.

 

[Rusty burbin]

I drive a 1970 k20 suburban (The Beast) as my daily driver (I'm sitting in it as I type this waiting for my son's baseball game to start) it's also my offroad / overland rig. I've gone through just about everything in it and have have had great success as far as dependability goes. I have a family of 8 if you include the dog so I need the space. I drive the beast to events, beat the living c..p out of it and drive it home!

It's our 4th suburban:
1995 2500 4x4
2002 1500 2x4 lifted
2006 1500 2x4 stock
1970 k20 4x4 heavily modified

We have had great luck with all of them regular maintenance and 2 transmissions replacements - 95 & 07 but other than that no problems.

My point is that a suburban can be an awesome rig and dependable... there is a huge after market for bells and whistles as well as regular maintenance parts.

My opinion for whatever it's worth is that you've come this far so ya may as well finish it up, you'll know exactly what you have and it will basically be a new truck... with that cool vintage style!

Easy for me to say when it's not my money or my wife's disinterest. Good luck man!

Rustyburbin from SoCal 5 kids, wife, dog and a 1970 K20 Suburban

 

[Captain Chaos]

If you have the room and a good place to do it, that 350 is one of the easiest motor swaps you can do. Pull the hood, drain the coolant, and then pull the radiator. There isn't all that many wires or vacuum lines to pull on a 90s small block. You will miss one or two, it happens every time. Underneath, 6 bellhousing bolts, 3 torque converter bolts, and 2 motor mounts. The tranny mount could have a few different combinations of bolts, depending on which mount. Basically, that's it. Pull it out, set it on the floor, put the other back in. You would pretty much have a brand new drivetrain.
That Sub will pull any trailer you want. It will do fire roads nicely, and you'll have a ton of room. BUT.... after time, your experience and ability will increase. You'll start thinking that you need 3/4 or 1 ton axles. Then you start thinking and a lower ratio t-case. The list goes on and on. It's all part of being an overlander.

 

[Graeman]

I was actually looking for a old 3 door Sub to fix up but the ones around here are like gold - pay by the pound. Seen some great examples running around in AZ with cool custom mods done to them. Plenty of interior space to build out, great for large families, parts galore for anything that says Chevrolet on it and they are inexpensive to repair. I just sold my 2011 Chevrolet Duramax 4x4 with 523,000 miles on it. Great truck! Only major repair was blown head gasket at 478,000 miles.

 

[Rusty burbin]

If you have the room and a good place to do it, that 350 is one of the easiest motor swaps you can do. Pull the hood, drain the coolant, and then pull the radiator. There isn't all that many wires or vacuum lines to pull on a 90s small block. You will miss one or two, it happens every time. Underneath, 6 bellhousing bolts, 3 torque converter bolts, and 2 motor mounts. The tranny mount could have a few different combinations of bolts, depending on which mount. Basically, that's it. Pull it out, set it on the floor, put the other back in. You would pretty much have a brand new drivetrain.
That Sub will pull any trailer you want. It will do fire roads nicely, and you'll have a ton of room. BUT.... after time, your experience and ability will increase. You'll start thinking that you need 3/4 or 1 ton axles. Then you start thinking and a lower ratio t-case. The list goes on and on. It's all part of being an overlander.

Amen to this comment. I was a novice a few years ago. Aside from my old VW busses that I used to work on. Since getting into my 70 K20 I'm confident setting up my own diffs, and rebuilding t-cases, doing engine and tranny swapps stuff I'd never even consider 4 or 5 years ago. A decent mechanic has to start somewhere... why not on your own rig?!

Rustyburbin from SoCal 5 kids, wife, dog and a 1970 K20 Suburban

 

[chuckoverland]

I feel your pain, we are over $16,000 into our 90 toyota truck. Far beyond the point of selling him for what we put into him. But its very nice knowing we will get some more good years out of him.
What part of WA you in?

 

[OB-4144]

Am currently in a 99 suburban with 246k. I won't be rock climbing in it. But not limited to pavement. I will be rebuilding or swapping out, when the need occurs..

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