Nissan FS vs Toyota FS why is Toyota preferred?

[SquishBang]

I currently own a 2007 Titan 4x4 with a HLSD rear diff, Bilstein 5100's and BFG KO2's. I have never had a problem off road, and I have owned the truck for over 10 years now and I like to joke that it "is as reliable as a Camry".
However, she is getting old, and the new truck bug is gnawing on me.
I recently bought my wife a 2020 Corolla HB, and I am super impressed by the car! It is her first Toyota, and she loves it.
I know that Toyota is working on a Gen 3 Tundra, and I am looking forward to what Toyota comes up with.
For several reasons, I truly dislike the new Titan and much prefer my old Titan.

So, since we only have the Gen 2 Tundra to talk about, what makes it so that I see so many more of these (and especially Tacomas) set up as off-road rigs? I want to learn more about what ways Tundra is superior to other FS half-tons.

So far, I found that the Tundra uses an especially beefy rear end. But, Tundra isn't available with a rear locker like Tacoma, Frontier or Titan. (The Titan rear end is derived from Dana44 and is also used on Frontier, which I think is "hokey" to share with the smaller truck, but no one has had one break on a Titan yet)
Do Tundras have better articulation?
Better aftermarket support?
Better clearances?
People just don't want it to break down out in the boonies?

I have asked this question on both Nissan and Toyota websites only to get the usual, typical responses!

So, from a practical standpoint, why would someone pay the price premium for a Toyota truck?
I'm hoping to become better informed, as I already have it drilled into my head from 27 years of driving/owning vehicles that Toyota is preferred for reliability. But, I have been quite surprised how well my Titan has held up, although I doubt I'll buy another one. If I could get "schooled" on what is so good about these trucks, it would help me when the Gen 3 Tundra is released to make a good decision about buying it.

I know domestic trucks are good too, but I'm only looking forward to the Gen 3 Tundra.

 

[M Rose]

Well here is my thoughts... Nissan has a huge reliability issue to overcome. Pre 90’s Nissan pickups just didn’t stack up against any mini-midsized truck for reliability... dual spark, carb issues less than 100k miles before needing internal engine repair. While Toyota has always made the most reliable engine (3.0 not included). Remember the Toyota 100,000 mile commercials in the late 1980’s? Then early 2000’s they were running the 1,000,000 mile commercials.
Now on to modern times. Toyota has had problems... The sticking throttle, The overheating 3.0, seat belt failures, and a bunch more... but instead of hiding the flaws they turned to the media and exploited the flaws, offering factory recalls that cost them millions.
Nissan finally did something right building the Exterra and the Frontiers. Sure they still have problems in areas that they shouldn’t (pink milkshake of death comes to mind), but overall they are sound rigs. Sales just haven’t been as high because of past marketing failures, and poor quality.
I keep focusing on sales, because that is what drives the aftermarket. More Toyotas are sold than almost any other truck so of corse there is going to be a huge aftermarket for them Compared to other makes. Toyota also moved thier production to the US in the early 2000 to be able to compete in NASCAR and NASTRUCK series. Which helped drive up US sales as well.

 

[SquishBang]

Well here is my thoughts... Nissan has a huge reliability issue to overcome. Pre 90’s Nissan pickups just didn’t stack up against any mini-midsized truck for reliability... dual spark, carb issues less than 100k miles before needing internal engine repair. While Toyota has always made the most reliable engine (3.0 not included). Remember the Toyota 100,000 mile commercials in the late 1980’s? Then early 2000’s they were running the 1,000,000 mile commercials.
Now on to modern times. Toyota has had problems... The sticking throttle, The overheating 3.0, seat belt failures, and a bunch more... but instead of hiding the flaws they turned to the media and exploited the flaws, offering factory recalls that cost them millions.
Nissan finally did something right building the Exterra and the Frontiers. Sure they still have problems in areas that they shouldn’t (pink milkshake of death comes to mind), but overall they are sound rigs. Sales just haven’t been as high because of past marketing failures, and poor quality.
I keep focusing on sales, because that is what drives the aftermarket. More Toyotas are sold than almost any other truck so of corse there is going to be a huge aftermarket for them Compared to other makes. Toyota also moved thier production to the US in the early 2000 to be able to compete in NASCAR and NASTRUCK series. Which helped drive up US sales as well.

So, one of the other reasons I am leaving Nissan at some point, they absolutely never stand behind their product unless forced to. I have a Q60 that at some point will develop a "sticky dash". This has happened to MANY MANY Lexus and Toyotas also. Toyota has so far fixed most of those cars. Nissan fixed 0, ZERO, even on many that happened under warranty. To be fair to Nissan, if we look at just their RWD-based vehicles like Titan, Frontier, 370Z, QX80, Armada, G37, Q50, Q60 and compare them to their Lexus or Toyota counterparts, the Nissans are generally just as reliable. It's when it comes to warranty or how corporate deals with out-of-warranty endemic defects.
All Nissan FWD-based vehicles are not very good IMO, Toyota rules here.

I like watching the Youtube videos of Toyota rusty frames being replaced. You'll see Toyota spending serious money and effort replacing a frame on a clapped-out, high mileage, dented up 2.7 Tacoma because it is the right thing to do.

My wife's new 2020 Corolla HB has a new for Toyota 2.0 with both PFI and DI, and a 2-stage CVT with a "real" first gear takeoff. Huge red flags if any other manufacturer. We bought the car anyway being fairly sure Toyota will appropriately address any issues with new tech.

 

[trikebubble]

Previous to my Tundra I had an Xterra. it was an absolute beast of a vehicle, reliable, lots of power, no issues ever. When I decided to purchase a full size truck, the previous gen of the Titan had just been replaced with the new one. I didn't want to buy an obsolete truck, and did not want to buy a truck that had not yet been proven. I bought the Tundra, which has honestly proven itsef in the reliability field for a long time. I've been 110% satisfied with my choice. If the timing were different and the new gen Titan had been out and proved for awhile, I may have chosen that.

 

[SquishBang]

Previous to my Tundra I had an Xterra. it was an absolute beast of a vehicle, reliable, lots of power, no issues ever. When I decided to purchase a full size truck, the previous gen of the Titan had just been replaced with the new one. I didn't want to buy an obsolete truck, and did not want to buy a truck that had not yet been proven. I bought the Tundra, which has honestly proven itsef in the reliability field for a long time. I've been 110% satisfied with my choice. If the timing were different and the new gen Titan had been out and proved for awhile, I may have chosen that.

Somehow, Nissan screwed-up the VK56 in the Gen 2 Titan and Armada/QX. The only difference known is that the previous VK56 used PFI and the newer one is DI.
Cylinder 7 has been failing in these trucks. Early enough that Nissan has to warranty it, but for an advanced engine, they are only short-blocking them. Also, Nissan won't admit what happened that cylinder 7 failed. If they keep it a secret, how can we know they fixed it for 2020?
The VK56 from 2004-2015 is super solid, as is the 5AT. You can really pile the miles on these trucks.

 

[Billiebob]

Not sure why but Toyotas outsell Nissans 10 to 1 where I live. I think both are excellent trucks.

 

[reaver]

I think, overall, a lot of how nissan has approached warranty claims stem from the previous CEO. Now that it's back under Japanese leadership, I expect things to improve over the next few years. It comes down to a culture thing.

 

[SquishBang]

I think, overall, a lot of how nissan has approached warranty claims stem from the previous CEO. Now that it's back under Japanese leadership, I expect things to improve over the next few years. It comes down to a culture thing.

I gotta admit, some of my biggest issues with Nissan comes from the Ghosn era.

When Akio Toyoda took over Toyota a few years back, he promised to breathe new life into Toyota. He didn't like how bland Toyota had become, and now his latest efforts have paid off. It's why I am excited about the upcoming G3 Tundra.

Hmmm.....maybe the next Frontier will be amazing too?

 

[MidOH]

Because the older smaller Titan is better than the new one. Except for xfer case kabooms, but those are kinda rare. And the new Titans are kinda fugly.

I prefer the Raptors over the TRD Tundra's still. Hopefully Toyota addresses that. The simple fact that Ford can't build a base-ish Raptor, and can't price a Raptor under $55k, leaves Toyota a ripe opening to compete in.

 

[reaver]

I gotta admit, some of my biggest issues with Nissan comes from the Ghosn era.

When Akio Toyoda took over Toyota a few years back, he promised to breathe new life into Toyota. He didn't like how bland Toyota had become, and now his latest efforts have paid off. It's why I am excited about the upcoming G3 Tundra.

Hmmm.....maybe the next Frontier will be amazing too?

I 100% agree with this. I think the first gen Xterras were pre-Ghosn, so they certainly don't suffer the same issues. Even the newer ones (with the exception of SMOD) are super solid. I would personally buy the Frontiers and Xterras of any generation (except the 2021 with it's new 3.8L engine and Trans. Those are un-proven as of right now) without thinking about it.

 

[Ralph]

Not sure why but Toyotas outsell Nissans 10 to 1 where I live. I think both are excellent trucks.

I can tell U why. Maybe it'll clear out why PATROL/ARMADA is most wanted in Emirats, Russia, Ausiess and still have no reputation in US.
And this is not my text - that's why it is quoted :

"Over the years many of us Patrol enthusiasts have happened across a rumor either on the Internet of by word of mouth. The actual content may vary, but the basic gist of the rumor regards why the Patrol is no longer imported to North America.

The rumor basically goes that back in the late 60's Datsun made an agreement with Toyota, that Datsun would let Toyota have the Land Cruiser market if Toyota let Datsun have the sports car market in North America. And, when you stop and think about it, 1969, the last year that Patrols were imported, was also the shortly after Datsun released the 240Z. Look into some Toyota history and you'll find that Toyota had the 2000GT in production at that time. This car would be major competition for the 240Z. So, the rumor seemed to have some validity - although none of us Patrol enthusiasts want to believe that they would do that when Datsun had such a great utility vehicle.

Well, as chance may have it, I have had the opportunity to put this rumor to rest. Having previously taken my Patrol to Nissan oriented car shows, and with the Patrol impressing the right people, I was invited to take my Patrol to this year's National Z Convention, specifically the car show held on Saturady at Nissan Headquarters in Gardena. The big draw for the event, other than the hundreds of Z cars was that Mr. K, Yutaka Katayama - "The Father of the Z Car" - would be there. Mr. Katayama was the President of Nissan North America from 1965 to 1974. Although he was constantly overwhelmed by hundreds of respecting fans, I did find the opportunity to speak to him in person alone.

I respectfully recounted the base of the rumor to him, and asked him if this is indeed what happened. His response was, "Well yes. I was more interested in the Z."

So, there you have it. Not only is the rumor true, but it was Mr. K himself that made that business decision.

I made my say for the entire Patrol community. I did let him know that there are still many Patrol enthusiasts in this country, and there are web sites where we communicate with each other. I let him know that many of the Patrols are still around and appreciated. He seemed interested, asking me where in the country these people are, and where I was from. He had had the opportunity during the show to see my Patrol. He was surprised when I told him that I had 5 Patrols. Maybe a seed was planted, maybe not. Mr. K does still have some strong influence with Nissan.

And, Ian you will be pleased to know that your name was even mentioned during the day - not to or by Mr. K - but I was talking to Les Canaday about Patrols and he talked about you having the availability to parts. Victor with the ragtop was there as well and talked about contacting you for brake cylinders. Sure would be nice if you had a stock of those available for people to get when they need them. Still trying to decide how to spend that tax return?

I just wanted to share this everyone."

 

[SquishBang]

I can tell U why. Maybe it'll clear out why PATROL/ARMADA is most wanted in Emirats, Russia, Ausiess and still have no reputation in US.
And this is not my text - that's why it is quoted :

"Over the years many of us Patrol enthusiasts have happened across a rumor either on the Internet of by word of mouth. The actual content may vary, but the basic gist of the rumor regards why the Patrol is no longer imported to North America.

The rumor basically goes that back in the late 60's Datsun made an agreement with Toyota, that Datsun would let Toyota have the Land Cruiser market if Toyota let Datsun have the sports car market in North America. And, when you stop and think about it, 1969, the last year that Patrols were imported, was also the shortly after Datsun released the 240Z. Look into some Toyota history and you'll find that Toyota had the 2000GT in production at that time. This car would be major competition for the 240Z. So, the rumor seemed to have some validity - although none of us Patrol enthusiasts want to believe that they would do that when Datsun had such a great utility vehicle.

Well, as chance may have it, I have had the opportunity to put this rumor to rest. Having previously taken my Patrol to Nissan oriented car shows, and with the Patrol impressing the right people, I was invited to take my Patrol to this year's National Z Convention, specifically the car show held on Saturady at Nissan Headquarters in Gardena. The big draw for the event, other than the hundreds of Z cars was that Mr. K, Yutaka Katayama - "The Father of the Z Car" - would be there. Mr. Katayama was the President of Nissan North America from 1965 to 1974. Although he was constantly overwhelmed by hundreds of respecting fans, I did find the opportunity to speak to him in person alone.

I respectfully recounted the base of the rumor to him, and asked him if this is indeed what happened. His response was, "Well yes. I was more interested in the Z."

So, there you have it. Not only is the rumor true, but it was Mr. K himself that made that business decision.

I made my say for the entire Patrol community. I did let him know that there are still many Patrol enthusiasts in this country, and there are web sites where we communicate with each other. I let him know that many of the Patrols are still around and appreciated. He seemed interested, asking me where in the country these people are, and where I was from. He had had the opportunity during the show to see my Patrol. He was surprised when I told him that I had 5 Patrols. Maybe a seed was planted, maybe not. Mr. K does still have some strong influence with Nissan.

And, Ian you will be pleased to know that your name was even mentioned during the day - not to or by Mr. K - but I was talking to Les Canaday about Patrols and he talked about you having the availability to parts. Victor with the ragtop was there as well and talked about contacting you for brake cylinders. Sure would be nice if you had a stock of those available for people to get when they need them. Still trying to decide how to spend that tax return?

I just wanted to share this everyone."

Wow, very interesting.

I have even looked at the newest Armada and seriously considered it as a half-price Land Cruiser. Nissan did seem to leave a few key items off of the latest Armada, which wasn't based off of the Titan this time but based on the global Armada, and then de-contented with no reasoning why.

There may be some hope for the latest Armada though, really all it needs is at least a locking rear diff...aftermarket may support it, the Titan can get both front and rear locking ARB diffs, and people with older Land Cruisers know all about adding locking diffs.

I will say though, for the full size truck market, I don't see any quantifiable reason to choose a Tundra over Titan. Both have burly V8's that get horrid MPGs, both are classic body-on-frame. In some ways the Titan is better, such as available rear locker and stronger frame, in other ways Tundra is better: better interior (past models, new Titan is so nice on interior now) Toyota reliability, seemingly beefier differentials.

 

[Billiebob]

Very interesting. No doubt in the 1960s sports cars and racing cars were where the markets was. We were in the horsepower wars of the 426, 427, 428. NO one was driving a truck. The option was a 4x4/pickup vs a Thunderbird, Toronado, 300. Baja 1000 was a fringe sport. Cam Am, Indy, Trans Am, NASCAR ruled.

But what killed small import trucks in North America was the Chicken Tax. It had nothing to do with a deal between Toyota & Nissan. It was a deal between the Auto Unions in North America and supporting Lyndon Johnson in the 1964 election.

Chicken tax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 25% chicken tax is still in effect, hence Fords Transit van from Italy was imported with rear seats which were shredded after passing thru customs and sold as "vans". If you want to see all those great 4x4s the rest of the world enjoys, well there is an election coming.
Kill the Chicken Tax.

 

[Billiebob]

Here is a fantastic read on the Auto Industry.

 

[Sparksalot]

Because all the cool kids on YouTube have Toyotas.

 

[Billiebob]

Because all the cool kids on YouTube have Toyotas.

NAILED IT ^^^^ !!!!

 

[BCMoto]

The taco sells so much because its a small truck that alot of people use in the city but really its the youtabbers and its cool to have a taco

 

[Sparksalot]

The taco sells so much because its a small truck that alot of people use in the city but really its the youtabbers and its cool to have a taco

that’s my Tahoe surrounded by “small” tacos.

 

[BCMoto]

that’s my Tahoe surrounded by “small” tacos.

View attachment 144196

good for ya

 

[SquishBang]

that’s my Tahoe surrounded by “small” tacos.

View attachment 144196

The only thing "small" about Tacomas are the interior and the engine!
Big price tag, big gas consumption, fairly underpowered. And that orange-colored one certainly seems at least as long as the GM and taller making it "look" pretty big.
They are more narrow, and have great 4WD systems on certain trims, that's for sure.