NF Robbery & Shooting: Will this make it harder to get help?

[Tundracamper]

It seems this horrible incident happened not too far from my neck of the woods, in the Talladega National Forest. While the article says Cheaha State Park, I’m not sure that is accurate. I am wondering if this is going to make it more difficult for people having car trouble - or even getting stuck - to get help. I know I’m going to be more cautious…

‘He is my hero’: Florida student died protecting heartbroken girlfriend in robbery near Cheaha State Park

Mikayla Paulus and Adam Simjee's spontaneous trip ended in a horrific nightmare when Simjee was fatally shot on National Forest Service Road.

www.al.com

 

[Renegade]

Sad story. He even was armed and suspicious.

"When she (the suspect) dropped her guard for a second, and lowered her gun for a second, he pulled out his gun and told her to get on the ground,’’ Paulus said. “She started messing with her gun and it was jamming but they shot at each other.”

IMO, if you need to pull a gun on someone, you need to start shooting too.

When you have to shoot, shoot, dont talk.

RIP.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Not just a matter of opinion, but survival sir. The very act of drawing a firearm on someone IS by definition assault. You are under threat, and are not obligated to take a hit before firing in defense. Not to diminish this situation but that's why Han Solo shot "first." Already being threatened. There is no need to warn the offending party. They brought it on themselves.

By the accounts here, this was as good a man as you could hope for your daughter.

And the girl, saying how she understood the culprits were hungry and desperate. If they were only hungry and desperate, once the guy pulled his gun, they could have laid theirs down and apologized and explained how hungry and desperate they were. And ASKED for a few bucks.

A 5 year old girl brandishing a loaded shotgun?!?! Ok. I was 10 before my father allowed that of me.

If I had to wager, I'd bet a camp of meth-heads not looking for food, but the next score. Read how the cops recognized suspect #2 by sight.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Sad story. He even was armed and suspicious.

"When she (the suspect) dropped her guard for a second, and lowered her gun for a second, he pulled out his gun and told her to get on the ground,’’ Paulus said. “She started messing with her gun and it was jamming but they shot at each other.”

IMO, if you need to pull a gun on someone, you need to start shooting too.

RIP.

Yojimbo asked NO questions of anyone after that katana was unsheathed. Talk all you want but if you are pulling a gun out on someone who has one out on you already the time for talk is over.

What a shame about this guy. I hope they throw the book at her and her friend

 

[OTH Overland]

Being aware of your surroundings and listening to the little voice in your head (or the hairs on the back of your neck) can go a long way to avoiding bad situations. If he had enough worry to pocket his handgun to get out and assist them, it would have been better to drive on and report thier location and that they appeared to be having an issue to a ranger or other law enforcement. Its not often I have had my spidey senses lead me astray. There are more than a few areas of forest service roads around our area that have become 'sketchy' due to transient occupants setting up camps. fortuantly most are less than a few miles from small towns that provide the needed support services (food banks, resource centers etc) that these people utilize for surviving. unaware campers in these areas often become targets for theft and other crimes of opportunity. Most do not have the fuel, vehicles, or desire to extend their reach much beyond the perimiter, or easy to get to trail heads.

 

[Tundracamper]

The more I researched this story, the more it bothers me. The location in the article where they took that final photo is a location I have solo camped several times. Granted, that was not the location of the crime. The latter apparently occurred on FS 600-3, which is a short spur off a main road that serves as a trailhead. It makes me wonder if others might have passed and moved on. Still, I always considered that area remote and isolated. Maybe not so much anymore.

I do agree from reading the article that the time for talking was over. He should have pullled the trigger before saying anything. Perhaps it was the hesitation that cost him, though we’ll never know. Regardless, he didn’t deserve what he got. Hopefully, the criminals will pay dearly.

I do hope this remains an isolated incident. Otherwise, it’s gonna be hard to convince the wife to let me continue solo camping in these areas.

 

[kunstmilch]

This is for shit. That’s for sure. Easy to sit here and say what would be the thing to do or not do, but when a gun is pulled you have to make a decision right there either comply and hope it’s just a robbery (in this case) or don’t. Easier not to if armed. When you (I ) pull a gun on someone it’s to pull the trigger. Every time I’ve had a gun pointed at me and talking began I knew it was bullshit. It’s a very frustrating experience.

While I tend to withhold judgement on people living in the Forrest even as thieves to get by, the rise is a shitty one. Makes it harder to be kind, and while I get many of us are more fortunate than say, forest dwellers, and I get that from that perspective someone rolling by in a shiny new truck looks like the petit Bourgeoisie, unfortunately it’s not royals riding through the forest here. We are all working shmucks. This whole situation is just messed up and filled with desperation. How awful.

 

[grubworm]

While I tend to withhold judgement on people

you mean the people you just called "thieves" and "forest dwellers"??

 

[kunstmilch]

you mean the people you just called "thieves" and "forest dwellers"??

I dont use the term derogatorily. but I understand why it would seem that way. If theres a better term Im happy to correct myself.

 

[grubworm]

I dont use the term derogatorily. but I understand why it would seem that way. If theres a better term Im happy to correct myself.

i really dont care, just pointing out that we all do "judge", so might as well own it and just make sure to judge the right things. sometimes making a judgement call on a person or a situation is what keeps us alive, so judging isnt always a bad thing. if the word is bothersome, then just change it to "evaluate". i dont "judge" people, but i certainly do "evaluate" the hell out of them!

according to the write up, the girlfriend of the shooting victim said that he felt something was off. so apparently he did do some judging or evaluating. he shot the woman 3 times, so he was on his game for the most part. the woman shot him once and killed him. she got off a lucky shot.

if i was in his shoes, i probably would have gotten shot, too. i'm sure i would have been hunched under the hood trying to find the problem while they got the drop on me. reading stories like this reinforces the need for us to stay vigilant, but at the same time i dont want to get to the point where i completely turn away anyone in need because i am afraid. its a messed up situation and it goes to show that evil can take on any form anywhere and at anytime...

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I dont use the term derogatorily. but I understand why it would seem that way. If theres a better term Im happy to correct myself.

Well, they did live in the forest. So, they are forest-dwellers. They did try to rob this young couple. And shot and killed him. So they are actually worse than thieves. They are Armed Robbers with a murder charge pending. Theres not much worse one could get outside of rape or wanton negligent homicide

 

[ThundahBeagle]

i really dont care, just pointing out that we all do "judge", so might as well own it and just make sure to judge the right things. sometimes making a judgement call on a person or a situation is what keeps us alive, so judging isnt always a bad thing. if the word is bothersome, then just change it to "evaluate". i dont "judge" people, but i certainly do "evaluate" the hell out of them!

according to the write up, the girlfriend of the shooting victim said that he felt something was off. so apparently he do some judging or evaluating. he shot the woman 3 times, so he was on his game for the most part. the woman shot him once and killed him. she got off a lucky shot.

if i was in his shoes, i probably would have gotten shot, too. i'm sure i would have been hunched under the hood trying to find the problem while they got the drop on me. reading stories like this reinforces the need for us to stay vigilant, but at the same time i dont want to get to the point where i completely turn away anyone in need because i am afraid. its a messed up situation and it goes to show that evil can take on any form anywhere and at anytime...

We always tell our kids "use your best judgement" and then someone says that judging people is wrong. I disagree. Judging (like you said, evaluating a person or situation) is how we decide not to get into a car with that drunk driver friend of ours.

Its CONDEMNING that is the problem. Judge away. Change the word judge to evaluate if you like, but 10 years from now people will want to word changed again because you are attaching or detracting VALUE to a person. Someone will chicken snap over that

I sometimes stop to help people as well. I dont want to be at a point where I never help. But I judge (evaluate) the conditions before deciding to help. Even then I could be wrong some day.

This guy was armed. What if they saw his gun in his waistband while he was bent into the engine bay? They might have shot anyway.

The girl had been on the phone (video call?) With her father to help diagnose. Another lesson here (no blame, just criminology and victimology) is to STAY ON THE PHONE UNTIL YOU ARE WELL AWAY FROM THE SUSPICIOUS SITUATION.

They didn't attack during the phone call because her dad would have been a witness. You are already suspicious. Keep dad on the phone until you have already driven away. Indeed, make it a video call and record it. Say "Hi Dad, this is the lady whose car broke down" and pan the phone over to video the lady and have her say Hi. I'm guessing she would have not attacked after that, because there would have been a witness. Certainly not if the phone call/ video call remained active until the couple left.

Again, this is not casting blame to the young and decent couple. It's part Monday morning quarterback, part "playing the 'what if...' game" for so many years. Decades, really.

Unfortunately I default to being suspic5of people first, even the ones I do evaluate that I can stop for. I have stopped to help a lady or 2 in the past and said, call your husband, boyfriend, wife, significant other, go ahead. I'll talk with them and say hi and let them know I'm here helping. The people on the side of the road could be just as apprehensive.

Sorry for the long post. This just has an effect because I'm happy to have a truck and tools to help and have done so on many occasions. As I'm sure a lot of you have